Johnnz Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hi all, First post here, having just helped my girlfriend to buy a 1991 Legacy automatic with an EJ20 150k on the clock. Now we are living in a rather how to say "rustic location" and have to battle a muddy sloped driveway to get to our crib. I have a 97 T/tb Forester which has no problem getting straight up the hill, but the 91 legacy slips and slides and wont go straight up. I first thought that the 4wd(awd?) system was not working at all but one night I got the torch out to look at the wheels while I was driving up the hill (my girlfriend refuses to drive her "new" car until it gets the cambelt replaced and otherwise checked out at the mechanics ) anyway, I saw that both the front and back wheels were skidding but never at the same time - it was either full power at the back, or if I turned the steering wheel across the slope then the front would start to skid and the back would stop until the car was on an angle to the slope and it got traction to move along. Has anyone any idea what needs doing to balance the power between front and back to get more control from this car? I guess the tyres may be a factor since the forester has 215/60 R16s but the Legacy has a lot narrower tyres, but I am sure that if it were possible to diff-lock the Legacy it would make it up the driveway:-\ Thanks for any ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61454 makes perfect sense for a tired clutch pack. Try this, next time it happens put the car in low. That should force the AWD into 50/50 split. The clutchpack has no grip. When in a straight line the awd unit is cycling. It sesse the differnce in frt/r axle speeds, and cycles on off. When you cut the wheel its even worse. With a good lcutchpack, the system never is turly disconnected since it can vary between 10-50% split. Now if your clutches are worn, when it gets to a 30% split, there may not be enough grab in the clutches to do anything, so no power gets to the rear wheels. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnz Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Thanks for the reply Nipper. We just went back to the garage this morning to pick up the legacy and the mechanic had taken it for a test drive and suggested we take it to a place down the road that has some special equiptment to do a transmission oil flush on it because it was showing its age by taking too long to change gears during acceleration. Just wondering if this is a good idea to do the flush. I guess it would cost too much to tinker with the transmission itself. I dont think it is woth spending too much on it really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 You dont say how many miles on the car. FLushes have been safely done up to 180,000 miles with no problem. Its a last resort thing b4 you think of repairing replacing the tranny nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 First post here, having just helped my girlfriend to buy a 1991 Legacy automatic with an EJ20 150k on the clock. You dont say how many miles on the car. FLushes have been safely done up to 180,000 miles with no problem. Its a last resort thing b4 you think of repairing replacing the tranny nipper Uhhh...uhhh.....Flush yes Flush! :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Uhhh...uhhh.....Flush yes Flush! :-p opsy sorry but still flush it. And of course the entire tire matching thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 And of course the entire tire matching thing. Oh man. You can't believe how crucial that is. Tire matching makes the car drive so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Oh man. You can't believe how crucial that is. Tire matching makes the car drive so much better. well i get tired of repeating myself. It also is the #1 reason the VC or the clutch pack gets chewed up. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnz Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Sounds like flushing is the way to go By tyre matching I guess you just mean to have the same tyres on all four wheels, right? Thanks for your help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnz Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 By the way that is 180,000miles you mean not kilometers, right? The legacy that we have has 150,000 kilometers on the clock. Do American subarus have imperial odometers generally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 By the way that is 180,000miles you mean not kilometers, right? The legacy that we have has 150,000 kilometers on the clock. Do American subarus have imperial odometers generally? yes i said miles. You have about 93,000 miles on your car, so you wont hurt anything with a flushing. American subarus are in miles per hour. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnz Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 Just wondering still about the flushing thing - still havent got the bill from the garage yet so not sure how much money we've got to do more work on the legacy. How good are the chances that after flushing the 4 wheel drive will engage when driving up a muddy slope? (thats what we need it for). Also, can someone please explain what flushing actually is? My guess on it is that some kind of detergent must be pulsed through the cavities of the transmission to remove oiley grime to free up the moving parts inside the tranny- is this right? cheers, -John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Just wondering still about the flushing thing - still havent got the bill from the garage yet so not sure how much money we've got to do more work on the legacy. How good are the chances that after flushing the 4 wheel drive will engage when driving up a muddy slope? (thats what we need it for). Also, can someone please explain what flushing actually is? My guess on it is that some kind of detergent must be pulsed through the cavities of the transmission to remove oiley grime to free up the moving parts inside the tranny- is this right? cheers, -John. NEVER use a detergent in a transmission, or anyplace for that matter, except to clean out a radiator that is off the car. There are many chemicals in transmission fluid, and they dont last for ever, they break down or evaporate with age, hence why its recomended to flush the tranny every x miles. Flushing is removing all the old fluid and replacing it with fresh. When this is done it disolves the gum (varnish)in the valve body, AWD valves and in the clutch plates. This solvent is one of the things that wears out with time. http://www.carcare.org/Auto_Transmission/trans_fluid.shtml http://www.aa1car.com/library/atf.htm nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstwagon Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 NEVER use a detergent in a transmission, or anyplace for that matter, except to clean out a radiator that is off the car. There are many chemicals in transmission fluid, and they dont last for ever, they break down or evaporate with age, hence why its recomended to flush the tranny every x miles. Flushing is removing all the old fluid and replacing it with fresh. When this is done it disolves the gum (varnish)in the valve body, AWD valves and in the clutch plates. This solvent is one of the things that wears out with time. http://www.carcare.org/Auto_Transmission/trans_fluid.shtml http://www.aa1car.com/library/atf.htm nipper I hear people warn against flushing on older cars. What happens in that case? How is it harmful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I hear people warn against flushing on older cars. What happens in that case? How is it harmful? that was true, but not for newer old cars (think before 1990). Also back then they used chemical flushes, that would remove the gunk holding the tranny together. With higher demands on the trannnies now, they are built a lot tougher, and the new fluid doesnt hurt htem. Many people hear have had flushes on subaruies with almost 200,000 miles on them and no problem. Also remeber back in the day when that held true, a car with 80,000 miles on it was considered old. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I have relatives in Queenstown so I know how it can be. I agree with nipper that the clutchs are probably worn and cycling. If that tranny was in good shape it should drive right up there when it kicks in to 4wd. Be aware that flushing may not fix it if there is enough wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Oh, and we don't use Imperial measurements here. We had this probelm with the crown you see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Oh, and we don't use Imperial measurements here. We had this probelm with the crown you see... but it was a pretty crown..... nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 which is a fine excuse to drink beer. I agree that matching tires and flushing would be my first step. A lot of folks have gotten another couple years out of an old tranny by flushing and it is the chaeapest thing to try. Even tires can be expensive in Kiwi so a matching set can be tough on the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 that was true, but not for newer old cars (think before 1990). Also back then they used chemical flushes, that would remove the gunk holding the tranny together. With higher demands on the trannnies now, they are built a lot tougher, and the new fluid doesnt hurt htem. Many people hear have had flushes on subaruies with almost 200,000 miles on them and no problem.Also remeber back in the day when that held true, a car with 80,000 miles on it was considered old. nipper Flushes are pretty much the death of old SVX transmissions. You wipe off that layer(varnish or whatever) and it causes the differential to pretty much explode. You just gotta be careful of what you're flushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Flushes are pretty much the death of old SVX transmissions. You wipe off that layer(varnish or whatever) and it causes the differential to pretty much explode. You just gotta be careful of what you're flushing. SVX was a special design, and they had an entirely different problem. What would happen with the svx is that the lock up torque converter material was inferior (amoung other things). That material would flake off and clog the cooler. A flush would get rid of the suspended and clogged material, but at the same time would losen up even more material, as some of that varnish was keeping it glued down (a no win situation). They also had problems with clutch band, and inferior AWD clutch pack. I really dont know what subaru was thinking when they made that tranny. One of the fixes is to put a legacy tranny in a svx, now why didnt they do that to begin with. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 SVX was a special design, and they had an entirely different problem. What would happen with the svx is that the lock up torque converter material was inferior (amoung other things). That material would flake off and clog the cooler. A flush would get rid of the suspended and clogged material, but at the same time would losen up even more material, as some of that varnish was keeping it glued down (a no win situation). They also had problems with clutch band, and inferior AWD clutch pack. I really dont know what subaru was thinking when they made that tranny. One of the fixes is to put a legacy tranny in a svx, now why didnt they do that to begin with. nipper Ill tell you why subaru never did it in the first place. People in japan were thinking the most millage the owner will do is 50,000km, THATS WHY!! Then they thought it out and said, subaru's are bullet proof, therefore we shall make the legacy(thats how they thought of the name) and to this day the legacy are still running but the SVX is worth alot but cost alot. The End. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I really dont know what subaru was thinking when they made that tranny. One of the fixes is to put a legacy tranny in a svx, now why didnt they do that to begin with. nipper They weren't thinking. . . . Oh, and a better fix is to put a 5MT into the SVX. Why Subaru refuses to mate a manual tranny to any H6 is beyond me. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 They weren't thinking. . . . Oh, and a better fix is to put a 5MT into the SVX. Why Subaru refuses to mate a manual tranny to any H6 is beyond me. . . . becaus e the car was deishned as a luxury touring car, not a sports car. That explination came from subaru. People put 5 speeds in them al the time, me im going to be stuck with the automatic. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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