Knichol Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Has anyone compared the Phantom aftermarket unit and the stock LSD units? Couple of questions... 1) Does one hook up better than the other? 2) Do all stock LSD Hook up the same or are some better than others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 1) I think I've read that the Phantoms are overpriced (bang vs. buck) but I have zero experience with them. 2) lower mileage is better, obviously, and gear ratios can be changed, but all stock LSDs are the same AFAIK. As long as the fluid's clean and approved for LSD use, you're good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 There are two types of LSDs for the Subarus. The older EA subes use a clutchpack type LSD. The new EJ subes use a Viscous type LSD. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. DON'T use a phantom grip unless you have a spare Diff. They like to eat the diff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 DON'T use a phantom grip unless you have a spare Diff. They like to eat the diff up. what makes you say this? not being critical at all...I just haven't heard it before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knichol Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 what makes you say this? not being critical at all...I just haven't heard it before There are so many things that need to be checked when pulling a rearend I might suggest accidental installation errors may be responsible. No offence to anyone who had a Phatom go bad, because I am sure there is a reason why its only $300 when other brands run $800-$900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 what makes you say this? not being critical at all...I just haven't heard it before I know most people do it, and it probably works well for them. I guess it doesn't really break the Diff. I just wouldn't put it in a diff I didn't have a spare for... Here's a quote from a 510 guy: They call it a "Phantom Grip", but I call it something else. If I may be permitted to reprise an email I posted sometime back... From the looks of it, all this unit does is spring-load the side gears against their washers, turning them into half-assed clutches, while adding a wedge ramp to increase the pressure as the side gears try to turn relative to the cross shaft. There are several problems with this approach. First, those side gear washers have no clutch material on them, and the Phantom Grip (Phantom Menace?) unit doesn't appear to come with any that do. (Not that it would do much good, there being no provision in the differential case for a proper stack of frictions and steels.) As this unit operates, you're gonna be wearing away the side gears and differential case. With the spring pressure against them, but without the waffle surface of a clutch disc, there's not much opportunity for lubricant to get into the side gear washers. Since the "clutches" are just metal-on-metal, and running virtually without lubricant, the breakaway characteristics are not going to be very progressive, or predictable, as things heat up. The wedge ramp also induces stresses on the differential case that it was never designed to handle. When (not if) this unit chatters, the wedge ramps are gonna be trying to split the differential case in two. Incredible testimonials aside, this seems to be a very poor substitute for a proper LSD, and way overpriced for what is essentially a couple machined plates and a few springs. I would certainly not consider the Phantom Grip in the same league as PowerTrax or Air Locker. (Pulled it from http://kmhafer.datsun510.com/Subaru.htm . A website I pulled up for a buddy of mine looking to put a 3.7 LSD from a subie in his datsun 510) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 There are two types of LSDs for the Subarus. The older EA subes use a clutchpack type LSD. The new EJ subes use a Viscous type LSD. . What about Helical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 What about Helical? I don't think any rear diff came as helical. I'm not sure about center or front. Afaik, all the lsd centers are viscous. I dunno any front LSDs on subies. Someone should show me otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I don't think any rear diff came as helical. I'm not sure about center or front. Afaik, all the lsd centers are viscous. I dunno any front LSDs on subies. Someone should show me otherwise. IIRC, all STis have a front LSD. at least USDM ones and later JDM ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I don't think any rear diff came as helical. I'm not sure about center or front. Afaik, all the lsd centers are viscous. I dunno any front LSDs on subies. Someone should show me otherwise. STi. And your original blanket statement didn't specify rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 STi. And your original blanket statement didn't specify rear. Damn blankets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I will second the Phantom tears up diffs. I too have been told horror stories about them. I have VLSD in my lifted wagon and I love it in the mud. Its a blast. For ice racing, the VLSD seems to kick in a lil too late.. I will be converting to a spring/clutch type LSD in a few weeks and then probably a welded rear diff. just stay away from phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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