Need help with T-belt change

[AlexK]

99 Legacy L, 2.2liter, (California model, judging by the air filter type and location), 5 spd.

 

Putting on new T-belt - it seems too short. Even with tension adjuster compresed as specified in the manual, can't get it onto the last cam sproket. Compared to the old one- seems the same - same number of teeth between the marks. Subaru part # 13028AA181 - for 6/98-5-99 models. VIN #4S3BK435XX6312464. Tried puttnig the old belt back on - seems the same problem. Could it be that it was stretched, then shrank back?

 

two questions:

 

1) is it the wrong belt?

2) any tricks on how to make it go on?

 

I am at a loss.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Alex

[lmdew]

Put it on all the pulleys first, the geared idler pulley last. Just rotate the idler into position and start the bolt.

 

The new style tensioners are not as good as the old ones. You can switch by changine the attach block out.

[porcupine73]

Hm, well I haven't done my 2.2L yet, but I had sort of a similar problem on my 2.5L sohc, it was a little tricky to get the belt on toothed up where I wanted it, so I installed it with the geared idler pulley off, then bolted the geared idler back in after I had everything lined up and before pulling the pin holding the tensioner rod in. To get maximum looseness you can pull the idler all the way up by hand (if it doesn't do that by itself when you pull on the belt).

[coflatlander]

Hi , I just finished the same thing with my 89 GL. Make sure the tension adjustor is backed off in the right direction. Start with crankshaft sprocket , oil pump sprocket , belt idler, camshaft sprocket in that order. My belts were tight too, just keep working with them, I'm sure you will get it. I got copies from a Subaru Shop Manuel to do mine. I hope this helps.

[tcspeer]

Here's the solution, Leave the Idler off of the belt adj. (but put the adj. on) Also leave the left bottom passingers side idler off. Then put belt on, and then put the belt adj. idler back on, then put the passinger bottom left Idler back on. If yours is right hand drive it's still left side as you face the engine from front, just drivers side for you. Dont forget to pull the pen in the adj. when you finish.

99 Legacy L, 2.2liter, (California model, judging by the air filter type and location), 5 spd.

 

Putting on new T-belt - it seems too short. Even with tension adjuster compresed as specified in the manual, can't get it onto the last cam sproket. Compared to the old one- seems the same - same number of teeth between the marks. Subaru part # 13028AA181 - for 6/98-5-99 models. VIN #4S3BK435XX6312464. Tried puttnig the old belt back on - seems the same problem. Could it be that it was stretched, then shrank back?

 

two questions:

 

1) is it the wrong belt?

2) any tricks on how to make it go on?

 

I am at a loss.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Alex

[alexk02]

tcspeer and others who replied - many thanks!

 

tcspeer's solutiongave me the idea. I tried it first, it was very close, but not quite. I removed the small toothed idler and bottom left idler as he suggested. Put T-belt on everything else. Then re-installed the toothed idler (with some wiggling/pulling), then fairly easily the bottom leftsmooth idler.

 

The big ooopsie came when I forgot to install the belt guide over the crankshaft sprocket. When the belt was on, tensioner pin pulled and engine locked in 5th, I tried to tighten the left camshaft sprocked bolt and the belt jumped. I reinstalled it again, managed to tighten the camsprockets. Eventually, when tightening the crankpulley bolt, the belt jumped again. End of story, the cams and crank are out of position. I am not sure about the timing relationship between them now.

 

The car is 1999, 2.2l, the VIN is at the first post. Is it interference engine or not?

 

How can I get the timing alignment beck in order without doing any damage?

 

I suspect that the belt guide over the crank sprocket (the one I forgot to put in) could've prevented belt from jumping.

 

I came to conclusion that a good chain wrench with long handle is required for this job to hold the sprockets/pulleys properly, at least for re-assembly.

[lmdew]

Non - interference. No damage should have been done to the valves or pistons. You should not torque against the new t-belt. I use segments of the old one and a strap wrench to hold the cam pulleys when I torque those bolts.

 

The main crank bolt should go to 125 ftlbs. You can torque it by locking up the flex plate on the auto or in gear on the manual.

 

Just pull the belt back off and line up the timing marks and put the belt or new belt back on. After a few, you're a pro.

[mjreilly]

I believe post-1997 2.2L are interference.

[tcspeer]

Yes! it is an interference engine. And the cam and crank pullys need to be torqued before installing belt. I think it might be best to take the plugs out( but you might want to wait for second opinion on that.) and then turn the two cam spockects by wrench to the marks on cover, then turn the crank spocket back to the mark at top (dont use the arrow) use the little line on one of the little tabs that stick off of spocket you will be back in time. Maybe you didnt damage the engine but you can check with a compression gauge if it dont start after installing the belt. Also I think the pully on the adj. is smooth on my engine so the two you left off should have both been smooth, but maybe I dont remember. I dont think you damaged it by hand because I let my cam spocket get turned once when I was removing the bolt with an impact on it and it survived.

I believe post-1997 2.2L are interference.

[tcspeer]

Imdew is right just line those marks up, dont even think about T.D.C. that will just get things confused, remember the cams are right with every turn and the pistons are in center of engine when the crank mark is lined up.

Non - interference. No damage should have been done to the valves or pistons. You should not torque against the new t-belt. I use segments of the old one and a strap wrench to hold the cam pulleys when I torque those bolts.

 

The main crank bolt should go to 125 ftlbs. You can torque it by locking up the flex plate on the auto or in gear on the manual.

 

Just pull the belt back off and line up the timing marks and put the belt or new belt back on. After a few, you're a pro.

[alexk02]

Thanks for encouragement, guys. I still would like to use some tool to lock the camshaft pulleys while torqueing them down and do the same with the crank pulley. Would a chain wrench be safe to use (with the old belt used for cushioning)? The right cam pulley (as you're looking at the engine from the front) is metal with sort of spokes, but the left one is solid with a huge size heagonal nut shape protruding. I guess the special Subaru tool fits over that nut-like protrusion to hold the pulley for tightening. I am planning to use the chain wrench to hold it on the outside. Has anyone used this method? Does it work? Does it work for crank pulley (enough gripping power)? The chain wrench is from Harbor Freight 42-717 - 2VGA 24" long chain grips up to 6" diameter objects.

 

thanks, Alex

[WillKeith]

I used a chain wrench for both the pulley and sprocket during my timing belt replacement over this past weekend with no problems on my 96 Legacy L.

[tcspeer]

I also use that chain wrench with a piece of old belt around pullys, and found it best to duct tape the belt to hold it on while getting chain wrench on. Also save the pieces you cut to fit and the next time you will save some time.

Thanks for encouragement, guys. I still would like to use some tool to lock the camshaft pulleys while torqueing them down and do the same with the crank pulley. Would a chain wrench be safe to use (with the old belt used for cushioning)? The right cam pulley (as you're looking at the engine from the front) is metal with sort of spokes, but the left one is solid with a huge size heagonal nut shape protruding. I guess the special Subaru tool fits over that nut-like protrusion to hold the pulley for tightening. I am planning to use the chain wrench to hold it on the outside. Has anyone used this method? Does it work? Does it work for crank pulley (enough gripping power)? The chain wrench is from Harbor Freight 42-717 - 2VGA 24" long chain grips up to 6" diameter objects.

 

thanks, Alex

[porcupine73]

Used that exact same Harbor Freight chain wrench on '96 Legacy 2.2 (sohc) with a piece of old belt taped on as suggested and it works fine, that chain wrench is plenty strong and the long handle makes it easy to hold.

 

On the cam sprockets, I'd suggest getting the chain wrench wrapped around the side closest to the spokes. On my '96 Legacy I wrapped it around the side away from the spokes and I can swear the thing looks a little distorted now.

[Soutthpaw]

 

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&pid=00945571000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Adjustable+Wrenches&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

[porcupine73]

I tried using that Sears strap wrench to hold my cam sprockets while breaking the bolt free, no where near strong enough, just kept slipping and the rubber was way to stretchy. If you could replace that rubber strap with a piece of the old timing belt, that might work.

[AlexK]

I tried using this type of strap wrench, just like Porcupine says - the rubber is way too stretchy. If it had steel belts in it, then that would be different, but still the handle is too short for meaningful torque. Thanks anyway. I should get the chainwrench I ordered from Harbor Freight sometime this week and by next weekend will report the results. Very grateful for all suggestions, guys.

 

Alex

[AlexK]

Well. the moment of truth came and... it did not start. The engine cranks over when the ignition key is turned, but it does not start. The timeing marks were all lined up perfectly. What could it be? Could the timing be 180 degrees out?

Just to remind, it is a '99 Legacy, 5 spd, 2.2l.

 

Alex:banghead:

[jsavrtka]

Well. the moment of truth came and... it did not start. The engine cranks over when the ignition key is turned, but it does not start. The timeing marks were all lined up perfectly. What could it be? Could the timing be 180 degrees out?

Just to remind, it is a '99 Legacy, 5 spd, 2.2l.

 

Alex:banghead:

You mentioned tightening the camshaft sprockets. Did you somehow switch the two or otherwise disconnect the camshaft or crankshaft sensor?

[tcspeer]

First make sure you have the big vacum line on from the air filter tube to the Idle air control valve, If the marks are lined up you cannot be 180 degrees out. Take the belt off again and line the two cam pulleys with the mark on the cover, then use the little line on the tab of crank spocket and line it with the mark on the oil pump. Make sure you have the broken line of belt with the crank spocket and the straight lines with the cams. Also make sure you have the crankshaft sensor pluged back in. If and when you are sure the timing is right and it dont start then check the compression you may have bent valves.

Well. the moment of truth came and... it did not start. The engine cranks over when the ignition key is turned, but it does not start. The timeing marks were all lined up perfectly. What could it be? Could the timing be 180 degrees out?

Just to remind, it is a '99 Legacy, 5 spd, 2.2l.

 

Alex:banghead:

[alexk02]

Complete success! Big thanks to all who chipped in with advice. Chain wrench was the key to tighten the cam sprockets and the crank pulley bolts. Failure to start was the simplest thing, of course - unplugged crank position sensor. Plugged it back in - she started from half a turn!

 

USMB rules!

 

Alex