scrap487 Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I'm getting parts to build a motor, and my friend who has a lot of VW scirocco parts has all the stuff i'd need to convert it to CIS, minus the right heads and intake(which i will most likely have to modify/fabricate myself). I heard someone did this to an ea82 and did a write up? I'm having trouble trying to find it. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks, Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
970subaru Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 sorry but why? cis is decent but definitely not worth swapping in to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I tried to tell him that . Scared of the wireing for the SPFI swap I guess. The CIS E is simpler, but not as effecient as the SPFI, and to install it you will still be using a lot of SPFI parts. It's also a lot harder to install, as it requires all the same changes to the fuel system as the SPFI, and still requires the 02 sensor. It's been done to an EA82 MPFI engine.... look up CIS_Subaru - he's the user on here that's done it. He used to have a write up on it, but I can't find it now. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 maybe I just want to do something my own way? I'm going to be doing the spfi swap on another subaru too, but it just so happens I have all the parts I need for CIS right here in my lap. maybe I just want to be differant :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 but it just so happens I have all the parts I need for CIS right here in my lap. But you don't - you need the injector bosses in the heads, and that's going to cost just short of an a$$load for a set of EA81T heads. Then you need an SPFI manifold... etc. The reality is that SPFI would be MUCH cheaper, more effecient, and not a huge pain-in-the-a$$ conglomeration of german Bosch and japanese Hitachi. Waste of time I say. Reinventing the wheel isn't "different" it's stupid. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 ...The reality is that SPFI would be MUCH cheaper, more effecient, and not a huge pain-in-the-a$$ conglomeration of german Bosch and japanese Hitachi. Waste of time I say. Reinventing the wheel isn't "different" it's stupid. GD c'mon, tell us how you REALLY feel! Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment: Sometimes reinventing the wheel gives one an appreciation for the simplicity and functionality of the original design... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 I dont think I'd use turbo heads, I'd modify the original heads and the cost of that would probably offset the cost of having to go to the junkyard and pulling out the intake, wiring harness, and dealing with all the electrical crap for the ea82 spfi. I mean, I got EVERYTHING I need to do this, and I know a machine shop that can do what i need and do it cheap... and I've also always wanted to build my own intake manifold. Anyways, dont post saying this is better than that, please just post anything useful as to what I've considered? Anything else doesnt help me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 What is this CIS system you all talk of? Excuse my ignorance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Continuous Injection System. VW/audi used it. It's based on fuel pressure varying across an injector port. The more air flowing into the engine, the higher the fuel pressure goes. Uses a flapper style plate in the intake to measure the air. Easily recognisable by the braided stainless lines running to each of the injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 it also looks really really cool :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 and BMW used it in the '80's and so did a few other german car companies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 It was a Euro thing. Some Volvos even had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 and even the SAABS, 900 up to about '87 just think from one airplane company to another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 reinventing the wheel gets you this: Bosch CIS is about the stupidest idea ever, not on a Subaru mind you, on any car. Its just a crazed manual fuel injection that over complicates something thats as nice as the SPFI. The nice thing about swapping the Subaru SPFI is that it looks nice and stock, no matter how bad you do it, it still looks nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I'm with the guys that are sayin SPFI... sounds WAAAAY easier... and the only time german and japanese go together is world war 2.. as far as cars go, dont mix em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 whatever... I'm not gonna mess with the heads I'm just gonna build my own intake to work w/ the VW CIS... honestly, this system is NOT VERY COMPLICATED, at all, and seems to me in harsher conditions it may stand up better to abuse and/or be more easily serviced than EFI if I'm out in the middle of nowhere. It doesnt need a computer to run, or much at all in the way of electronics really, its more efficient than a carb Jeez, I create a thread, and most of the responses I get are just telling me not to do it, and even then I dont get any specific reasoning why its so horrible to use this system. My mind is set on making an engine run with this setup, regardless, that cant be changed at this point, so if it isnt constructive please dont post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryry46d9 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 i use to have a 81' jetta with that set up i thought is was cool a buddy had a rabit same year but had a small pin-hole it the boot on top and that thing would idle but couldn't handle a load (took a few day to find the hole) other then that i like the way it looks i would like to see the setup pics when your done (trying to picture the injector setup) what block are you doing this to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 PM CIS_Subaru - he did it, and can tell you what you need to know. He also ripped it off eventually for reasons I can't at the moment recall. He's with the new gen forum mostly now it appears. He talked about using subaru axle nuts JB welded to the heads - the bosch injector holders will thread right into them apparently. Go for it - then when you are sick of it, I'll help you put the SPFI on instead. The SPFI is quite rugged actually. There's really not much to go wrong with it. As injection systems go, it's actually simpler in concept than the CIS. The CIS has 4 injectors, and insufficient information to run them (no valve information). The SPFI has one injector, and an excelent, yet minimal amount of sensors with which to calculate the required fuel (and ignition). And of the sensors it does have, it can run well enough to get you home (at freeway speeds) with only the TPS, MAF and CAS. The CTS, 02, IAC, and solenoids (if you haven't already taken them off) can be removed - the ECU will compensate enough to allow the engine to run. The mileage will suck, but you will get home. Best of all, if something does go wrong, it will tell you about it. Try hunting down problems on a mechanical injection system that has no faculty for reporting trouble codes. Just the fact that it's got 4 injectors, and is STILL less effecient than the SPFI with a single injector rules it out as a viable option in my mind. Show me one single CIS equipped vehicle that hasn't had a single injection problem in 300,000 miles (for that matter show me any 80's VW product that MADE it that far!).... I can show you dozens of SPFI systems that got that far and more without changing anything related to the injection. The 02 will be shot as they only last around 100k, but it will still run fine. The setup on my Brat had 248k when I swapped it, and none of the componets were bad besides the solenoids (which are extraneous, and only 1 was bad of the 2). It is SOOOO nice to walk out there and start it - it just runs. It's pretty weird really. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 well you might find this next bit hard to believe... but I was heading out to a lake(I think beaver lake? or something it was awhile ago), long, pretty rocky rough road going out there, last summer in my stock wagon and I was passed up at one point when I was taking a break by a red scirocco from I think arizona... it had over 400k miles on it and the guy said it was the original motor. Anyways I got six months to mess around with this project, I still need to get a TB cause apparently the one my friend brought me was fubarb. I also need to get some more ssb fuel lines, the ones I have were cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodaka Rider Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 So . . . I've worked on several VW's from the 80's with far more than that many miles on them without major problems. Also, the CIS system is known for it's simplicity, tunability, etc. It will also support turbo use easily, and will give great mileage (my 85 Jetta - CIS-E - always got great mileage). That all being said, the SPFI system just makes more sense. Mostly because you don't have to mess with modifying the heads to take injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Jeez, I create a thread, and most of the responses I get are just telling me not to do it, and even then I dont get any specific reasoning why its so horrible to use this system. My mind is set on making an engine run with this setup, regardless, that cant be changed at this point, so if it isnt constructive please dont post it. Heres my reason.... s.. A. You are right it is not complicated, but it is complex, like already said its not going to be a bolt on like the SPFI. B. I've worked on a BMW and VW that had this and the little plastic hoses look like trouble, they always seem brittle to me C. Its not as efficient as SPFI. To me the SPFI is a glorified electronic carb, the Bosch CIS is below that to me. Its more like a MPFI carb, but it still seems all vacuum managed. D. My personal Bias: I hate bosch stuff, it has never served me well in the past ever on Japanese cars. The first set of plugs I got for my 6 were Bosch, they went out in a few days, fouled. Replaced them with NGKs with no other changes, and 4 years later I'm on the same NGKs(need to get those changed:lol: ) So I'm sorry if I offended, I'd just hate to see you waste your money on hokey fuel injection when the SPFI is so nice, cheap and easy to install. That said, do what you want. Your car, your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
970subaru Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 now, if you were wanting to do a turbo setup, cis e can go the distance but a volvo 240 turbo fuel distributor would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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