baboonia Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I have a 97 Outback A/T with the 5.3i ABS system. When I apply the brakes, I get all kinds of funky grabbing/slipping sounds from the front and jerky stops. If I pull the 20Amp ABS fuse under the dash, the brakes work perfect, like a normal car. How do I troubleshoot the ABS system and what are the typical problems with the 5.3i system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 The only thing I can think of is rusty tone wheels in the front. The tone wheels are hidden under the rotor hat, and read by a little sensor bolted into the hub. If they get rusty, the little teeth that create the magnetic pulses get muddied and don't produce the proper waveform in the sensor. If the ABS light is on, use a scan tool. If it isn't, take a look at the tone wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea#3 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Read the codes and see what you get (see attached) Hope this helps SEA#3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboonia Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 ok, so I retrieved the codes from the small black diagnosis connector near the yellow select monitor connector. my error codes were 11, 22, 24, 51 Is there a chart online that explains what these trouble codes mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 [...]my error codes were 11, 22, 24, 51 Is there a chart online that explains what these trouble codes mean? I've got the 5.3i ABS on my '99. The manual says: 11 - Start code - Trouble code is shown after start code 22 - Abnormal ABS sensor signal - Front right ABS sensor 24 - Abnormal ABS sensor signal - Front left ABS sensor 51 - Abnormal valve relay The first code, 11, just tells you it's the beginning of the code sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Adding to my previous post: You might want to verify that all the codes are "real". I know that the weather in Washington has been bad lately, and perhaps wetting of some of the ABS system components has caused certain problems. It could help to temporarily clear the codes, and read them again when the ABS light comes on. Of course, the fuse will have to be reinserted. To clear the codes, connect the ground probe to pin 6 of the B82 diagnostic connector as you did previously to read the codes, and turn the ignition switch to "ON" (don't start the engine). The stored codes will again flash. Pull the probe from pin 6 and quickly reinsert it three times (apparently you have to complete that cycle within 12 seconds or so), leaving it in pin 6 the last time. If things are normal, you should hear the ABS unit go through a mechanical sequence (expected when codes are cleared). After turning the ignition to "OFF" and then "ON" once more (again, not starting the engine), the ABS lamp should flash only "11" if the trouble codes cleared. As soon as a problem recurs and the ABS light comes on after a drive, read the codes and let us know what you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 By the way, sometimes multiple ABS trouble codes can be caused by a charging system malfunction. Checking the battery voltage while the engine is running may be a clue to that possibility. EDIT: Of course, an excessive gap from sensor to tone wheel can cause insufficient voltage level for proper ABS functioning, and I just looked at the photos you linked to in your post #4 of this thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69239 It seems that the tip of the wheel speed sensor is missing (broken or corroded off). It's a flattened portion about 1.5mm wide and 3mm deep, and the sensor won't function without it. You'll need to replace the sensor; unfortunately, new cost even from the online discounters is typically over $100. Make sure you use plenty of rust penetrant before trying to remove the sensor mounting bolt, and a 6-point socket. If you're unlucky (don't ask how I know ), the bolt will break and you'll have to carefully drill out the remains to spare the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboonia Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 I cleaned my tone wheels and sensors. Cleared the error codes, went on a drive. Still have grabby/jerky brakes with ABS fuse installed. Now my errors are 11, 22, 24, and 56. I guess the tips of both my sensors are broken off. The gap is 4-5mm. Does anyone have a photo of a good sensor with proper clearance? Below is a photo of mine before I cleaned it up. Both sides look similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 [...]I guess the tips of both my sensors are broken off. The gap is 4-5mm.[...] As I mentioned above, the tip normally projects about 3mm (beyond the cylindrical portion of the sensor pole piece). You're finding a 4-5mm gap; lets call it 4.5mm. Subtracting 3mm from 4.5mm leaves 1.5mm, which is very slightly larger than what the gap should be. The sensor tip is definitely missing. Code 56 is "Abnormal G Sensor Output". It's possible that the codes other than 22 and 24 (51 previously, 56 now) are byproducts of the malfunction due to the damaged wheel sensors. I can't be sure, but there's a fair chance that replacing the two damaged front wheel sensors will complete the repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 What ate your sensors? Doing a quick search on the net i am seeing 0.3-0.4mm air gap on BMW, so its a safe bet that they all are probably in the same neighboorhood. http://www.alldata.com/techtips/2005/20050509b.html you may find that interesting. Notice the part about a hair or two gap. I cant say for sure but it looks like your sensors bot smashed. If you have a Haynes manual on page 9-12 picture 12.7b is a decent pic of what it looks like. No where in the manual does it say anything about adjustment, so i dont think they are adjustable. Either way yours is flattened and can cause the ABS to get really confused. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 [...]Doing a quick search on the net i am seeing 0.3-0.4mm air gap on BMW, so its a safe bet that they all are probably in the same neighboorhood.[...] At least some of the Subaru gaps seem to average closer to 1mm. Attached is info about the 99 Outback; it uses the 5.3i ABS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 The Subaru gaps seem to average closer to 1mm. Attached is info about the 99 Outback; it uses the 5.3i ABS. Cool. Either way, it looks like his sensors got decapitated. (something else for me to make a mental note about) nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 [...]http://www.alldata.com/techtips/2005/20050509b.html you may find that interesting.[...] Good link for general ABS info, Nipper. I've already mentioned the problem, but it bears repeating; as the article says: "...often times that the bolt that holds the sensor in is so rusty you can’t get that darn thing out without it becoming a production." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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