'00 Outback stalling. HELP!!!

[nixon]

Merry Christmas Y'all!

My new carriage ( '00 outback 2.5 SOHC, Auto, 142000 miles) has a frustrating problem, and I need help in solving it.

I bought it on Christmas Eve, and on the drive home , performed faultlessly, until pulling into my lane, where it stalled!

This has set the tone for our relationship. Once underway, it's fine, pulling like a train all the way to a hundred and naughty. When you slow to a stop it will stall.

It will idle all day, if left , but press the go pedal and it will stumble, and usually stall after a few seconds.

Cold, it appears to be fine, due to the higher revs, but hot, it doesn't want to play.

Prime suspect was the Idle Air control valve. This was swapped out for the similar one on my Forester. This had no effect on either car. The outback ran poorly with the Foz IACV, and the foz ran well with the OB IACV.

I had a look at the plugs. They were Bosch, in good condition, but I changed them fo NGK anyway. No difference. Plug Leads will be done tomorrow, when the dealership opens again after the holiday, but I'm not expecting them to make a difference...

While the plugs were out, I checked the compression- 190 psi all round!

I checked the action of the Throttle position sensor, sliding it this way and that. The original setting offered the best idling, so was restored.

After that, I'm stumped.Crank and temp sensors are amongst the possibilities, but before I start throwing money at it, I need some Expert/ experienced opinion.

Oh, one last thing, did I mention that it is LPG/Petrol dual fuel? Well it will run on either, and shows the same symptoms on both. Thus I don't think it is a fuelling problem. To make things easier, I have run it solely on petrol while troubleshooting. I think the LPG factor can bediscounted for the moment.

Thanks in advance for any hep or suggestions,

Nick:confused:

[idosubaru]

look like you're getting subaru OEM wires, that's good don't use anything else for the plug wires.

 

any check engine light? are the stock diagnostics/ECU still in place (i'm not familiar with alternate fuel stuff)? does it have a stock or aftermarket filter on it?

 

test the coil pack and also verify spark at each cylinder.

 

i would also have a look at the MAF - i forget exactly what kind this has but make sure the wires in the MAF are not broken. having one broken wire in a hot wire style annemometer MAF will cause similar problems in some vehicles (not sure about yours).

 

can you contact whoever you bought this from and ask some questions?

[nixon]

look like you're getting subaru OEM wires, that's good don't use anything else for the plug wires.

 

any check engine light? are the stock diagnostics/ECU still in place (i'm not familiar with alternate fuel stuff)? does it have a stock or aftermarket filter on it?

 

test the coil pack and also verify spark at each cylinder.

 

i would also have a look at the MAF - i forget exactly what kind this has but make sure the wires in the MAF are not broken. having one broken wire in a hot wire style annemometer MAF will cause similar problems in some vehicles (not sure about yours).

 

can you contact whoever you bought this from and ask some questions?

Thanks for the reply , Gary. There is no check engine light. ECU is standard, I believe. Aftermarket filter.

Coil pack... How do I test that? It looks like each plug has a spark .(The plugs are the rigt colour).

Will check the MAF manana, if I can find it!!??

The seller has gone home to Bulgaria for Christmas, but I think he sold it cos he couldn't find the cure... A VERY clean IACV and a bottle of redex injector treatment in the door bin testifies to that!

I've just been out in the dark to try misting the engine bay. No sparks to be seen, but the radiator fan came on straight away when I started the engine. It cut in and out while I sprayed.

No overheating evident (yet...)

Cheers, Nick

[idosubaru]

Aftermarket filter.

you need to clean the MAF then if it's the style with an oil impregnated filter. the oil from the fitler can bung up the MAF sensor, that's why i asked.

 

they sell MAF sensor cleaner at the auto parts store. pull it and clean it...be careful with it and also check the hair thin wires inside, visually check to make sure none are broken, should be obvious and only takes a screwdriver to remove it.

 

also check your coolant temperature sensor. look for corrosion on the wiring harness plug and sensor terminals - the sensors never really fail, it's just a bad connection. you *should* get a check engine light, but i've seen them not come on before.

 

but the radiator fan came on straight away when I started the engine. It cut in and out while I sprayed.

while you sprayed what? oh checking for sparks? i meant actually check to make sure each plug wires is sparking. you need a spark tester or just pull each wire and install a spare plug in it's place....we can give you full directions or you can look it up on the internet if you don't know how. as far as the fans coming on, that is not normal, i would definitely look into this, that doesn't sound right, maybe someone else has an idea why that's coming on.

 

do you (or anyone else) know what specifically needs to be messed with the fuel conversion? it would help us immensely to know what parts/components have been modified for this conversion.

[idosubaru]

i just edited my last post, i see you're logged on, in case you miss anything.

[porcupine73]

Any signs of bad battery or ground connections or anything? '00 Outbacks, at least U.S. ones don't have a MAF (they use the MAP speed density thing). Good point about the LPG stuff, unless it has a piggyback controller it seems sometimes running on lpg causes bad memories in the ECu for switching back to petrol.

[nixon]

you need to clean the MAF then if it's the style with an oil impregnated filter. the oil from the fitler can bung up the MAF sensor, that's why i asked.

 

they sell MAF sensor cleaner at the auto parts store. pull it and clean it...be careful with it and also check the hair thin wires inside, visually check to make sure none are broken, should be obvious and only takes a screwdriver to remove it.

 

also check your coolant temperature sensor. look for corrosion on the wiring harness plug and sensor terminals - the sensors never really fail, it's just a bad connection. you *should* get a check engine light, but i've seen them not come on before.

 

while you sprayed what? oh checking for sparks? i meant actually check to make sure each plug wires is sparking. you need a spark tester or just pull each wire and install a spare plug in it's place....we can give you full directions or you can look it up on the internet if you don't know how. as far as the fans coming on, that is not normal, i would definitely look into this, that doesn't sound right, maybe someone else has an idea why that's coming on.

 

do you (or anyone else) know what specifically needs to be messed with the fuel conversion? it would help us immensely to know what parts/components have been modified for this conversion.

The filter is aftermarket, but it's paper...

I'll have a look at temp sensor, and check the plug spark.

The fans came on despite the car having sat for over an hour...

I was spraying a fine mist to check for arcing.

The LPG conversion istotally new to me. It's a BRC system (reputedly one of the best for Subies). I've never seen so many tubes and pipes in an engine bay, most of them in the way of something that needs tweaking/ checking/ cleaning !!!

[johnceggleston]

you might consider disconnecting the battery over night to reset the ECU and then diagnois in petrol mode only. it probably won't make a difference, but if it does have something to do with switching back and forth or something learned this will reduce some of the varibles.

 

would vacume leaks under acceleration cause this? were both rad fans on? make sure the A/C and defrost is off.

[Skip]

Sir Nixon, the fans coming on like you describe

is an indication the

fuel injection coolant thermossensor is bad

or has an output out of range.

 

I do not know if it will throw a check light if it is out of

range but still shows continuity.

 

The contacts to the harness may need cleaning

but best bet is to replace.

 

They are only around 40 USD.

 

Location can be hard to see but removal of

the line to the PCV valve makes it easy to replace.

 

This is a fail safe built into the ECU.

 

Hope this helps.

[nixon]

you might consider disconnecting the battery over night to reset the ECU and then diagnois in petrol mode only. it probably won't make a difference, but if it does have something to do with switching back and forth or something learned this will reduce some of the varibles.

 

would vacume leaks under acceleration cause this? were both rad fans on? make sure the A/C and defrost is off.

Doh!, It was the A/C - not the cooling fans. I've just been out to disconnect the battery, and had to try it again. Hey, it's dark out there!

Edit. But reading the above post, maybe it wasn't the A/C...

[nixon]

Update.

PCV valve is fine.

Plug lead resistance is between 7 and 8k ohms (should be between 6 and 10).The dealer has new leads on order...

Coil secodary resistance is 12k ohms, 1-2 and 3-4.

Primary resistance , mmm?

Spark at the plug is a nice strong orange spark (in daylight) , and will easily ump a couple of inches to earth.

I'm jus going to clean a few sensor terminals.

I've tried running it on autogas, and the symptoms are exactly the same, so I don't think it's fuelling. Also, the changeover from petrol to lpg when the engine warms up is seamless, so that points away from temperature sensor.

We'll get the bugger yet!

Cheers, Nick

[cookie]

I'd still wonder about the temp sensor. If it was telling the engine to go to warm up mode a bit early stalling is common. The switchover may come at a higher reading.

Vacum leaks can also cause screwy symptoms as can bad grounds.

[nixon]

Just been fiddlin...

I disconnected the MAP sensor and took a drive around the block. Check engine light came on , and "POWER" lashed, but the car drove exactly the same!? Should it do that?

I also took some coil primary resistance readings :confused: ,

Hopefully someone can make some sense of them.

 

Coil.

1-earth , Infinite resistance

2-E , Infinite

3-E , Infinite

4-E , Infinite

 

1-2 , 3.5k ohms

2-3 , 140k ohms (!)

3-4 , Infinite

1-4 , Infinite

2-4 , 117.8k ohms

1-3 , 21.4k ohms

 

Harness.

1-E , Inf

2-E , 0 ohms

3-E , 0 ohms

4-E , Inf

 

1-2 , 26,2k ohms

2-3 ' 0 ohms

3-4 , 26.4k ohms

1-4 , inf

2-4 , 26.4k ohms

1-3 , 31.8k ohms

 

There are a lot of irrelevant readings here, but hopefully someone might know whether the relevant ones are OK!

The harness readings look OK, but the coil readings look suspect.

The manual gives an OK reading of less than 5 ohms for connector 3- earth, but is this coil or harness connection?

If I can't make it work by hitting it with a hammer, I'm stuffed!

Cheers, Nick

[nixon]

Quick Question. The coolant temperature sensor- is that the one just behind/below/to the left of the alternator, or one somewhere else?

Also, disconnecting the MAP sensor seems to have no effect on how the engine runs. Should it? Disconnecting the Lambda sensor seems to have quite an effect, giving a little less power throughout the rev range.

Cheers,Nick

[nixon]

Sorted!

It turned out to be a combination of poor valve gaps (LPG doesn't lubricate the valves like petrol, and they tend to recess more quickly), and oil in the plug tubes. Runs like new now!

Cheers, Nick

[Skip]

Geart news and info

 

Thanks for the update.