deks69 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Ok I posted on this awhile back, after driving my 98 Legacy GT about 40 miles and then parked it, let it idle when I came out the need in the temp gage was pegged at the high mark just below the H. After moving it to a different spot the temp went down. Never turned the car off. Well last night after driving for about a 100 miles on the way back the car started getting hot. Every time it gets hot I loose my heat, however, I can switch settings on my heater thermostat between defrost and vent, etc, and I can get the temp to drop back to normal. Sometimes I can even rev out the car and bring the heat back down. But last night it got into the high mark and after doing all these things the only thing that would bring the temp down was to turn the car off, I'd do this about every 5 miles. At times I could keep the temp in normal range but switching settings on my heat or reving the car up. I opened the radiator cap slightly to keep pressure from building up, but still it got hot. Is this the HG? I read somewhere when the HG goes, nothing but shuting the car down will drop the temp, but I was able to drop the temp doing the things I did above. Any thoughts? The oil didnt show any signs of Antifreeze but the antifreeze resavoir looked like it had small peices of brown crap in it. Damn car was supposed to save me money for what I paid for it, but now it's allready sucked up that on repaires. Should I even bother changing the HG or just swap motors? Im at a loss here, I thought it was just a thermostat acting up till last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 [...]the antifreeze resavoir looked like it had small peices of brown crap in it.[...]When the HGs go bad on the Phase-I EJs, combustion byproducts wind up in the coolant. Since that's what you're apparently describing, unfortunately it appears you do have HG problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 It does sound like HG but I would first top off the coolant at the plug located on the passenger side of the radiator. If the coolant system isn't full, it will sometimes show an overheat condition even if the temp is fine. If it still does this after topping it off, I would have someone test the coolant for hydrocarbons. That engine likes to have new head gaskets every 75k or so. Just the nature of the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsince77 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I'm probably not the guy to answer you here, certainly not mechanically anyway. But, I'm going through it right now too. The old Outback finally blew the HG. It showed some signs off and on for a few months, but finally overheated last week in the manner you describe - no heat, couldn't get it back under control. Before that I could always just shut it down for a few minutes, or rev it like you said. Even now, until I collect the money for the repair, I'm driving it around close to home. I never did let it get real hot, and right now you would never know it has a problem. I've driven it for the last 6 days with no sign of trouble. So, maybe you can eek a few more miles out if you are so inclined. As for repairing it, mine seems to still be a great engine in every other way. However, it was at the point of needing all the timing belt/seals/water pump/oil pump and valve set stuff at 200,000 miles anyway. When I combine the expense of that with an HG job, I decided to spend a little more and get a rebuilt from CCR. Only you can decide if you want to keep the car. I couldn't buy a newer Outback for what an engine will cost. Maybe your repair would be less and therefore worth it. In my opinion, it depends on if you like the car, what condition the rest of it is in, and what you will have for the money when you are finished. I think I'll easily put another 100,000 on this one. Just some thoughts, hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 might also look into retrofitting the 2.2, I have the 2.2 and the 2.5. I like the torque of the 2.2 over the HP of the 2.5 anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 Dont get me wrong, love the car, it will be repaired or a new engine will be put in. Only 102,000 on the car and engine. Body is mint and drives better then most new cars. Im just tring to decide given the nature of the 2.5's if I should just invest into a 2.2. I have CCR qouting me on the 2.2. Maybe even the turbo 2.2 So you say the 2.2 has more torque? I was wondering how that engine compaired to the 2.5, which I dont think it's all the powerful. Then again I used to own a WRX, so maybe I set the bar to high. LOL Thanks for the replies, it strengthened what I was already tring to deny. I suppose where I need to drive during the week I could squeeze some more driving out of it, but I'll park it till its fixed, probable did enough damage to it driving it hot trying to get it home last night. I have a back up truck. The mechanic I talked to, (very good) but he said, "never did a HG job in one of those, but there is always a first" didnt get my confidence boosted. I could learn on it if I had the time, that's not the point in having someone else do it. Kinda have to do this job right the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 So you say the 2.2 has more torque? I was wondering how that engine compaired to the 2.5, which I dont think it's all the powerful. 2.2 has less HP/Torque, even on the newer Phase II. From cars101.com: 1998 GT:Engine: 2.5 liter DOHC fuel injected 4 cylinder 16 Valve boxer engine, 165 horsepower, 162 Ft lbs torque @4000rpm 1998 Legacy: Engine: 2.2-L, 135 horsepower, 4 cylinder boxer engine, 16 valve single overhead cam, multiport fuel injected (140 ft lbs torque), electronic distributorless ignition 1999 Legacy: Engine: Phase II 2.2L 4 cylinder boxer engine Horsepower: 142 hp at 5600 rpm, 149 ft. lbs torque at 3600 rpm _____________________________________________________________ I would also 'burp' the cooling system as previously mentioned...but the 'floaters' in the overflow are a bad sign. If it is the HG and as you only have 102K miles on your 2.5....I'd fix it as the 2.5 'should' be good for another 100K+...should be around $1500 for the repair-more @ a dealer. But the CCR engine DOES come w/a warranty. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I've been thru this twice now the HG is leaking. You've probaly got bubbles in the overflow as well as a black substance. If not yet keep driving it you will. The second times I drove mine for six months after it started showing symtoms. As long as it doesn't overheat severly it'll be ok. Besides the engine is a piece of junk in my opinion so what does it matter if it does get overheated. I would do a thing to the engine except change it for 2.2L. I'd fix it as the 2.5 'should' be good. Who spends $1000 to $1500 on "should be good" funk that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsince77 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 If you are at 102k, then you are within 3k of the timing belt and all that goes with it job, and valve adjustment. When I did mine last time (113k) I also rebooted the axles. For me, adding the cost of that job to the HG job, is what prompted me to go with the rebuild. But, I am at 200k, not 100k, so I also wanted the heads gone through (another $500). You are probably still in a better position to just do the HG and timing belt etc., assuming the rest of the engine is sound. My engine still runs so well, burns no oil, get good milage, seems to have the power it ever did, that I hate to trade it out. CCR says they have NEVER had a return on the updated head gaskets, so hopefully they are that much better. If so, I like my 2.5 even though it is a pain to do something as simple as change the plugs on it. Stupid, but I can live with that every 100k or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 DEKS69. First, it sounds like you have a busted HG, but you should have your coolent tested for HC's. I also would go to the dealer and purchase the $1.98 4oz coolant conditioner. Its worth a try. I do not think you can just put in the 2.2 Turbo. You will need at least an upgraded fuel pump and I would guess other electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I have two outbacks and I wouldn't give up the extra horses. I would do the HG's and make sure the mechanic uses only subaru updated gaskets. In my opinion, the 2.5 is a good, spirited engine and worth the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 [...]I also would go to the dealer and purchase the $1.98 4oz coolant conditioner. Its worth a try. [...]Sorry, but it's highly unlikely if the HGs are bad on a phase-I EJ that the "conditioner" could withstand combustion-generated pressure. That sealant is sold by Subaru to deal with the loss of coolant on later (phase-II) engines, where the leakage is external and the pressure is only that of the cooling system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bard Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'd also toss in a new radiator. As I've posted repeatedly up here, the issues I had with Serenity ('97 OBW) were initially caused by a clogged radiator consistently misdiagnosed as bad HG's by the shop who sold the car to me. It kept blowing HG's, and they couldn't figure out why. It'd suck to get the HG replaced, then blow it again due to something as basic as a clogged radiator. As a side note, we ended up slapping a '95 EJ22 in my '97 to replace the 2.5L. The shop supposedly couldn't find anyone willing to sell him a Phase I 2.5L without having the heads redone. I really haven't noticed the loss in power, 'cept when I'm passing at high speed on the highway. Couple that with the non-interference design on the '95 2.2L, and I'm willing to deal with it. I certainly didn't buy Serenity for her speed. We just traveled down I-88 (between Binghamton and Albany, NY), and there's one long steep grade on the way back that's a good test. Three lanes... rigs will be in the right lane, pickups and SUV's in the middle, and anything that can keep up in the left lane. My wife's '00 OBW (auto) will handle it at cruise speed (~73 MPH), but it keeps jumping between gears. My '97 with the 2.2L (manual) will take it at cruise in fifth gear. Like I said, I don't miss the extra power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 The car has always started and ran like a top, but it does go through Oil, and the CEL light has been on since I bought it, ( the dreaded Missfire code on cyl #1,) that I have never been able to fix. A rebuilt 2.2 from CCR is 2250 bucks, and Im pretty sure I could do the swap myself. I will see what the mechanic thinks, there was also some ticking when I drove it, I thought it was exhast because it started after I had the clutch replaced, and they forgot a new rear seal and had to take the exhast off again. What does piston slap sound like? But with all these other possiable issues, maybe putting in a 2.2 might be worth it. I will miss the extra HP, because I already think the 2.5 does have enough. But I would rather have a reliable engine then a slightly peppier one. I will find out how much this guy is going to charge me for the job, and have him see if the tick is serious, and if its truley burning oil, or just leaking to make it smell that way. All in all I cant get a better car for either the repair or a replacement. CCR wants $3350 for a 2.5, wonder way its not much more of an engine then the 2.2L. It looks like my Radiator is newer, so I would just have him replace the HG, and Timing belt, make sure he knows he has to adjust the valves, (which will probeable clear up the CEL) and just check out my front axles as the front tires seem to drift sometimes, tie rods maybe? One thing scares me though, it apears that this car has the updated HG's, and if CCR says they never see problems with the Updated HG's then what happened with my car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsince77 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 You also need a different intake manifold for to swap to the 2.2L. I don't have a nearby source for such things. CCR quoted me $400 for that, so that brought the 2.2 up to $2650. You will also get some money back for your core if its in good shape on either engine. I think those prices include shipping to you also. No doubt the 2.2 has some benefits in terms of reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 You also need a different intake manifold for to swap to the 2.2L. I don't have a nearby source for such things. CCR quoted me $400 for that, so that brought the 2.2 up to $2650. You will also get some money back for your core if its in good shape on either engine. I think those prices include shipping to you also. No doubt the 2.2 has some benefits in terms of reliability. The 2.5 intake bolts up to a 2.2 they are the same engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 The 2.5 intake bolts up to a 2.2 they are the same engine. Umm, no it won't. The 2.5 is NOT a "bored out" 2.2. They have many differences externally and internally. Emily http://www.ccrengines.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsince77 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Umm, no it won't. The 2.5 is NOT a "bored out" 2.2. They have many differences externally and internally. Emily http://www.ccrengines.com Thanks Emily. Thought I had read your email wrong. Guess not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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