HHO Conversion on my Legacy

[WoodsWagon]

I think you all should talk to this guy for a bit:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/member.php?u=12611

 

He might help you figure out what is fact and what is make belive.

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, I dont give a flying ************ about the geopolitical/environmental aspects of electrolisys. Make your system, hook it up to your car, and drive in the same manner and record you gas millage in the same way and compare. Then tally up the cost of the system, the cost of replacement parts, and the cost of consumables, such as the distilled water. Give some real numbers to work with.

 

No one should belive something just because they read that it worked, or that it worked in the little world inside their head. Do some experimentation, record some data, and present it.

 

RESULTS PEOPLE! That's all I'm asking for.

 

 

 

Oh, and the globe is warming. Whether it's due to us releasing carbon dioxide stored for millenia, or the natural phases of the earth, the decision has to be made whether to change our ways to try and slow the process or party on till the world burns. Of course it can't be the former because the world has only existed for 6 thousand years, and the apocolypse is coming soon, so lets party on and use all we can.

[hardhatz]

Ok...

 

 

So...

 

 

Umm...

 

 

What is the chance we can get back on track???

 

 

OK, on the subject, Gravityman..

 

Seems you have educated yourself pretty well on this, let me share my thinking with you:

I commute 150-200 miles a day, much of it freeway. My work requires me to carry things, and I drive an old Chevy El Camino.

 

When I got it, it had a tired 283 & an automatic. I was getting about 16-17 MPG. So, I built up a new 350 & overdrive for it. I tried to focus on economy, with a mild cam, variable rate lifters, headers, and MSD6.

I have fine-tuned it quite carefully. So far, I am up into the range of 20-25 MPG, depending on conditions. A couple of times I have gotten over 26, although I realize this disclosure threatens my credibility... :-\

 

I really want to run it on Water. I used an Offenhauser Dual Port intake manifold on this motor, which I theorize offers some potential fuel-saving, and brings me to the point of this note. In the past, I have used Dual Ports for running dual fuels in an engine. Namely, Gasoline on primaries, and racing gas or Methanol on secondaries. In this case, I am thinking gasoline on one circuit & Hydrogen on the other. This way, you get good distribution. I am thinking a 2-barrel on the secondary side, and hydrogen on the (smaller) primary side.

 

Also, I envision small (1 qt) HHO generators lined up in a row above each valve cover. 3 or 4 to a side. Maybe a nice fiberglass tray that looks like a big ice tray, with a row of compartments. Rigged to turn on sequentially. They would (exclusively) feed the secondary side, but I am not yet sure how to regulate the flow, as it would need to be throttled to match demand & HHO production. One idea that came to mind is a regulator that works something like a scuba regulator, but is based on available HHO pressure instead of intake demand. Any thoughts?.....

 

I have a lathe, mill, TIG, etc, so I can fab up some things, I just need to get my hands on a good design. I see many claims, but don't know which to trust.

 

One thing I do believe is that this thing has been accomplished many times. and yes, I DO believe there's a conspiracy to suppress it. Not just by the oil companies, mainly by the Government. Why? Fuel taxes... Pretty hard to collect taxes on water. Oh, they'll eventually figure out how to do that too..

[mountaingoatgruff]

I doubt you can get past your mental disorder (Liberalism) long enough to see it.

 

i'm a libertarian, not a liberal. i doubt that anyone who's interested in maintaining the ridiculous status quo could ever see the difference though.

 

Oh, one more thing: The Globe is NOT warming. That is a fact.

 

wow, you need to turn the tv off and read something that hasn't been funded by oil or gov't.

 

 

this thread is now officially a lost cause.

[hardhatz]

Well Sir,

I commend your leaning, and I DO know the difference. Although I have been a lifelong Republican, they have abandoned me. So, Libertarian is the only sane choice. I consider Benedict W. to be a traitor, though I voted for him twice.

 

As a kid, I read "Monkey Wrench Gang" about 4 or 5 times. And you are correct, the Govt & Big oil are Effing us big time. And I stopped watching TV about 15 years ago.

 

But I STILL want to run my car & yours on water, and I think it is doable.

So, if you will forgive me for mistaking you for a Liberal, I'll forgive you for mistaking the globe as warming, and we can talk stainless steel & electrons. Fair enough?

 

 

i'm a libertarian, not a liberal. i doubt that anyone who's interested in maintaining the ridiculous status quo could ever see the difference though.

 

 

 

wow, you need to turn the tv off and read something that hasn't been funded by oil or gov't.

 

 

this thread is now officially a lost cause.

[SubPar]

"No one should belive something just because they read that it worked, or that it worked in the little world inside their head."

 

Wait, so I can't fit 44" Boggers on a EA82 wagon?

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Have any of you guys got one of these to work in their subaru yet? I want to see some before and after MPG numbers

 

Im curious how something like this would work on a forced induction system? Turbo or supercharged. If you route the HHO tube to the manifold, pressure created by the turbo would push gasses back instead of sucking them in. And if you put the HHO in before the turbo, im affraid the heat generated by the turbo itself would combust the HHO.

 

Regardless, I would like to see this topic stay on topic so we dont get 7 pages of Global Warming debates.

[s'ko]

Have any of you guys got one of these to work in their subaru yet? I want to see some before and after MPG numbers

 

Im curious how something like this would work on a forced induction system? Turbo or supercharged. If you route the HHO tube to the manifold, pressure created by the turbo would push gasses back instead of sucking them in. And if you put the HHO in before the turbo, im affraid the heat generated by the turbo itself would combust the HHO.

 

Regardless, I would like to see this topic stay on topic so we dont get 7 pages of Global Warming debates.

 

I will be buying the materials to make smack's booster this weekend.

I plan to put it into my BRAT.

 

Right now I am logging a consistent 21-22 MPG. I drive 50 miles each day to work. I usually spend about a tank of gas a week. I will keep a track of time it takes to make the electrolyte mixture, the time it took to make the booster and any changes in MPG and the of course the butt dyno.

[Gravityman]

WOW... I guess I just had to wait it out and let the thread move back on course. My friend put a small booster on his 6 cyl 300ci ford and he said that he was getting a huge boost in fuel economy. I am about to get regain access to a drill press to finish up my cell and then once complete it will be going on my 90 legacy. I have been keeping tabs on my milage, which i am getting right around 21-22 MPG constant (not trying to drive it any more fuel efficiant, driving at my crazy normal pace).

 

I should have the cell built by next week and then I will post some pics so you can see, possibly a video also.

 

As far as turbocharged engines go. I also plan on working on this kundrum you speak of about putting massive pressures on the cell. I would imagine you would have to build a system that will increase the pressure inside the cell and inject the HHO gas in the intake rather then let the engine suck the gas out of the cell. There will be more to come on this subject later. I am sure it is possible, it is just a minor detail that needs to be overcome.

[njdrsubaru]

cant wait to see your results, i've been experimenting with this for a few months already... when u get your results i'll go to my next step, lets see if we are all on the same page

[hardhatz]

As far as turbocharged engines go. I also plan on working on this kundrum you speak of about putting massive pressures on the cell. I would imagine you would have to build a system that will increase the pressure inside the cell and inject the HHO gas in the intake rather then let the engine suck the gas out of the cell. There will be more to come on this subject later. I am sure it is possible, it is just a minor detail that needs to be overcome.

 

 

If you had to sacrifice the HHO benefit during boosted operation, it would not be the end of the World. You'd still have the HHO for all the other times, which are probably 90% of the miles most of us drive. Low-pressure check valves? One thought though, I've seen a big unit on a diesel truck. That obviously has to deal with a turbo, so maybe on the intake stream can work after all.

 

About pressurizing the cell: I think that the process will die under pressure, kinda like how boiling is delayed until a higher temp... Just my theory.

[Yo'J]

Hi Ya'll, I just wanted to throw some names out there too! I'm a left leaning capitalist republican who votes democrat reads progressive and has voted libertarian and socialist, once catholic, who went unitarian, yoga nut job and ponders Zen Buddhisms while meditating and loves Jewish history! I want to run my car on water and I wonder if, with enough HHO gas could you ignite diesel or vegetable oil, like you would with a glow plug, but in a normal gasoline engine? You know ....just to get off of gas and have some more alternatives. I'm buying my parts already! Who has found a good box to run the electrolysis chamber in? I'm looking for a 4"x4" by 8" or 10" seal able container and I was hoping for clear. I just don't want a rubbermaid pos. I was also thinking Nalgene bottles but the shape makes it harder and smaller so I would have more of a plumbing mess. Has anyone with a running HHO system noticed a loss of a few horses due to the alt?

[Gravityman]

If you had to sacrifice the HHO benefit during boosted operation, it would not be the end of the World. You'd still have the HHO for all the other times, which are probably 90% of the miles most of us drive. Low-pressure check valves? One thought though, I've seen a big unit on a diesel truck. That obviously has to deal with a turbo, so maybe on the intake stream can work after all.

 

About pressurizing the cell: I think that the process will die under pressure, kinda like how boiling is delayed until a higher temp... Just my theory.

 

I am not sure if it is that big of a deal running HHO before the turbo, but it DOES have its safety risks and it will pull a huge vaccum on the system just as it would downstream of the turbo.

 

As far as the pressurized cell: The process is not like boiling water since the reaction is controlled by the electricity. It will constantly output gas, the delay would be based off of the amount of HHO the cell would make vs the pressure demand on the system. From what I have seen pressure will not increase gas output nor decrease it. The pressure on the cell would make it look like it is not making gas, it is just "pilliaging & plundering" the cell of its gas.

 

I know these cells, depending on their size, can make a lot of gas and build pressure. I will have to test a one way valve. I bought one and installed it on my friends cell to try and use it as a flash suppression unit, needless to say it did not work. If instead I could use it so the engine does not pull a vaccum on the cell, it should work.

 

Yo'J

Look into Acrylic/Lexan. You can buy thin pieces at lowes in the plexyglass isle. You can "glue" the glass together and make whatever size cell you want.

 

About the ALT: not a loss of power but on my friends old ford the alt was crapping out anyway and the increased draw on the alt was causing it to drain the battery. We are working on installing a 100 or 120 amp alt now. I belive it is running a 60 ro 80 amp now.

[Yo'J]

"Look into Acrylic/Lexan. You can buy thin pieces at lowes in the plexyglass isle. You can "glue" the glass together and make whatever size cell you want. "

 

 

I thought lexan melted to easily. I think that might be the ticket though!

[Gravityman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate

 

Melting temp- 267°C or 512°F

 

Lexan is basically a high grade, high temp plastic. It is used in the headlight and taillights for its high impact resistance. If it is going to be contain water inside the cell, which it will, the water would have to be 2x hotter the boiling water for it to melt.... Your not going to have a problem.

[Yo'J]

I just melted a piece of it on my router table, it was the base insert. The vibration from the 3" bit I was using caused a bit of heat as I tuned the speed by ear. I'm glad I noticed before I lost the whole router on the floor while running. 3" is a lot of cutter at 25,000 rpm. I can see why the harmonics could cause that much heat in a router table, and not in a subaru! I'm game, I keep that stuff around for jigging. Might be able to make it look nice too! Thanks

[Uberoo]

this may be an old thread but I thought I would chime in on how to inject HHO into the intake of a turboed car.If you make a venturi that you can place in your intake after the turbo just the air rushing past it(or in this case boost) would draw HHO into the intake...

[joostvdw]

Wouldn't it just pressurize the HHO unit? The pressure difference will make the air go into the unit and not just rush by. What you are talking about would only work if the HHO unit worked on a higher pressure than the turbo can supply.

[Gravityman]

I was thinking the same thing about setting up a venturi in the intake right after the throttle. I was thinking about making a throttle body spacer that is built to act as a venturi sucking in the HHO gas. To prevent the pressure buildup in the tube I would use a one way valve.

[Yo'J]

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/water-fuel-car-unveiled-in-japan/3934702477

[Gravityman]

Thats cool! calculate what she said. 1L of h2o will be used when the car is moving 80Kph for 1 hour. Convert that to stardard 1 L will move the car at 50mph for 1 hour. Multiply the liter by 3.75 to figure out how many gallons per L and then we can figure out its MPG...187 MPG. Thats crazy!!! So now you have to figure that with a larger heavier car. You are looking at something about 60-80 MPG. Thats cool!

[njdrsubaru]

so guys

 

any progress or results?

 

i am looking into some more new supplies

[Gravityman]

Yep, My buddy and I just finished a crude one for his car so he can run it to georgia tomarrow. Our first one was on a carb'd truck and we saw a gain. This one is getting installed on a 91 Legacy EJ22. Hope to see gains without a eefi. We will let you know!

[McDave]

These type threads always seem to fall apart right about now. Here's one of the better explanations I've seen on why...

http://aardvark.co.nz/hho.shtml

 

A couple weeks ago I got into it with a water2gas affiliate. After thoroughly debunking his claims, I asked him, while looking at my Silverado, if he wanted to know how I doubled my gas mileage. How? I waved the title to the Subaru I just bought from him.

[s'ko]

These type threads always seem to fall apart right about now. Here's one of the better explanations I've seen on why...

http://aardvark.co.nz/hho.shtml

 

A couple weeks ago I got into it with a water2gas affiliate. After thoroughly debunking his claims, I asked him, while looking at my Silverado, if he wanted to know how I doubled my gas mileage. How? I waved the title to the Subaru I just bought from him.

 

just bought the lye and waiting to get it in. Will be building the system sometime this summer. I have two other test vehicles to use with it. a EJ18 BRAT, a 1960's Chevelle and a 1992 Honda Passport.

 

Right now we are gathering gas mileage data so that we will have a control numbers to compare things with.

 

I haven't been keeping track of this thread, but I did read the link that was provided above. I am not trying to make an engine that runs on pure HHO or brown gas. I am trying to make an engine that is "supplemented" by brown gas. The main fuel source is from the gasoline that I am putting into the fuel tank. Using the electricity provided by the engine to power a small electrolyzer to make the brown gas that will then go into the engine and provide me with a more combustable vapor in the cylinder. All this talk about thermal dynamics is interesting but if you really read that PDF file about the HHO electrolyzers no one is saying that they are making energy nor a self-perpetuating machine. The power source that is being used to convert the water into brown gas is gasoline.

 

Sorry if I am ranting, I am just getting a bit tired of trying to explain to people what this is all about. Maybe I should just build the unit and give them hard numbers...

 

BW

[Zefy]

just bought the lye and waiting to get it in. Will be building the system sometime this summer. I have two other test vehicles to use with it. a EJ18 BRAT' date=' a 1960's Chevelle and a 1992 Honda Passport.

 

Right now we are gathering gas mileage data so that we will have a control numbers to compare things with.

 

I haven't been keeping track of this thread, but I did read the link that was provided above. I am not trying to make an engine that runs on pure HHO or brown gas. I am trying to make an engine that is "[b']supplemented"[/b] by brown gas. The main fuel source is from the gasoline that I am putting into the fuel tank. Using the electricity provided by the engine to power a small electrolyzer to make the brown gas that will then go into the engine and provide me with a more combustable vapor in the cylinder. All this talk about thermal dynamics is interesting but if you really read that PDF file about the HHO electrolyzers no one is saying that they are making energy nor a self-perpetuating machine. The power source that is being used to convert the water into brown gas is gasoline.

 

Sorry if I am ranting, I am just getting a bit tired of trying to explain to people what this is all about. Maybe I should just build the unit and give them hard numbers...

 

BW

 

The problem with this method of running a small electrolyzer with your power from the gas engine is it takes more power to create the brown gas than you will get out of it.

 

So after it's all said and done you'll just have a 150lbs brick of water and components sitting in the back of your car sucking up power...

 

if you can make it work (not just function, but work to it's expectations) then i would really like to see it.