idosubaru Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 How many different EJ22/EJ25 timing tensioner set ups are there in the Phase I stuff? I am used to the tensioner bar pushing against the round tensioner pulley. My 1997 Impreza OBS does not have that. It has the single piece tensioner/pulley combo that has a pin on the top of it rather than the horizontal bar contraption. Funny thing is i did the timing belt on this car a few years ago and it's not due for the next one, I just didn't remember it having this style. I have another 97 EJ22 on an engine stand and it has the horizontal type? Maybe it's a 98, but I thought it was a 97. Guess the bellhousing would clarify that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 How many different EJ22/EJ25 timing tensioner set ups are there in the Phase I stuff? I am used to the tensioner bar pushing against the round tensioner pulley. My 1997 Impreza OBS does not have that. It has the single piece tensioner/pulley combo that has a pin on the top of it rather than the horizontal bar contraption. Funny thing is i did the timing belt on this car a few years ago and it's not due for the next one, I just didn't remember it having this style. I have another 97 EJ22 on an engine stand and it has the horizontal type? Maybe it's a 98, but I thought it was a 97. Guess the bellhousing would clarify that. IIRC there are two. EJ25s and the "new style" EJ22s have the single piece tensioner/pulley combo. (New style EJ22s look just like a single cam EJ25, but they will have "EJ22" cast into the block, usually came in 98ish Imprezas) A tip when doing the belt on these, the service manual says to remove the tensioner and use a press to slowly push the rod back into the tensioner, and then put the pin in (We refer to is as the "Grenade Pin"), what works better is to use a prybar or long screwdriver, pry between it and the water pump pulley, apply steady pressure until you can put the grenade pin in. Don't do this if you are not replacing the timing belt as you run the risk of damaging the belt. The second type is the horizontal bar type found on the EJ22s and EJ18s, these you can use a vise to squeeze the bar back in (you don't want to squeeze too hard though, just apply pressure until it startsa moving and then steadily crank it until it is in far enough to put a pin in, make sure you get it all the way through. If you apply too much force it will blow the side of the tensioner out, basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 They also used the old style horizontal tensioner on the DOHC EJ25 for a couple of years...ran into that when I was doing some work on my parents' 97 outback. They must have switched in mid-97 or maybe started using the newer style setup on specifically optioned cars because the dealer couldn't tell me which type it would be from looking at the year, engine, trans, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 okay, i've seen other threads with questions regarding confusion between 97/98 timing belt kits. i'm betting it's this tensioner that also has me confused. The 97 EJ22 on my engine stand has the horizontal style, the 97 in my daily driver is the single piece style. Odd. the kit i got had the horizontal bar style, but my 97 impreza had the single piece tensioner style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 GG, If you need a tensioner let me know. I usually have several gently used ones around. I also usually keep a new one piece around, and a new bearing for what I call the 'pencil' style around. But I'd have to check. I should have a kit hitting here today but it'll be for the old 'pencil' style. BTW I have purchased the one piece tensioners from the same Ebay folks and it actually got here quicker - was shipped outta New York or something. You could probably have a new one shipped overnight and still save serious money versus the local parts place. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Thanks dave. for once i got really lucky. the lights in the garage were faint and flickering, the heater wasn't working right, the timing belt slipped a tooth and i mucked up the oil pump seal when installing the pump and had to replace it twice.....but i got lucky with the tensioner. it was by far the "newest" feeling pulley i've ever removed from a 90's era Subaru'. It was still tight and smooth. Couldn't tell a difference between a used on and this one except by it being dirty. I was amazed, particularly considering i didn't replace it last time either, so it's probably original - 130,000 miles. So I reused that and installed all the other stuff brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodhicheetah Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) Yea, this has been driving me bonkers. I bought an Aisin kit and all the parts websites said that my 97 OBS had the "pencil style" so that's the kit I bought. I had luckily read one comment on Amazon about the two different styles and I asked the parts guy at my local dealership which one he thought I had and he said I definitely had the one-piece style.Lesson learned, call the damn dealership and ask them to search for whatever part I need, by VIN. Now I have to try and sell the useless tensioner that came with the kit.Also, this whole 105k vs 60k timing belt interval thing has been boggling the hell out of me. I called a dealership in California (Elk Grove Subaru) and they said that they always change the belts at 105k, across the entire state. Now, do you think that every Subaru vehicle in California has a special different timing belt than all the other 49 states? No F****** way This means that unless there are tons and tons of Subaru timing belts snapping left and right between 60k and 105k, all across California, that Subaru belts in fact last at least 105k miles. The proof is in the pudding! Oh yea, and the other confusing thing was the torque for the crank pulley bolt. Some people say 70ish ft/lbs others say 90ish ft/lbs. Again, call the damn dealership. Call 3 dealerships if you have to.Peace! Edited May 1, 2018 by bodhicheetah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 belts are tough toothed idler? - not so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yea, this has been driving me bonkers. I bought an Aisin kit and all the parts websites said that my 97 OBS had the "pencil style" so that's the kit I bought. I had luckily read one comment on Amazon about the two different styles and I asked the parts guy at my local dealership which one he thought I had and he said I definitely had the one-piece style. Lesson learned, call the damn dealership and ask them to search for whatever part I need, by VIN. Now I have to try and sell the useless tensioner that came with the kit. Also, this whole 105k vs 60k timing belt interval thing has been boggling the hell out of me. I called a dealership in California (Elk Grove Subaru) and they said that they always change the belts at 105k, across the entire state. Now, do you think that every Subaru vehicle in California has a special different timing belt than all the other 49 states? No F****** way This means that unless there are tons and tons of Subaru timing belts snapping left and right between 60k and 105k, all across California, that Subaru belts in fact last at least 105k miles. The proof is in the pudding! Oh yea, and the other confusing thing was the torque for the crank pulley bolt. Some people say 70ish ft/lbs others say 90ish ft/lbs. Again, call the damn dealership. Call 3 dealerships if you have to. Peace! FWIW I usually do not change out the tensioner. Only if it shows signs of leakage in the piston. the large diameter of the roller means that one sees slower rotational speeds than the smaller idlers. Never seen a tensioner roller fail, only a few of the pistons with leakage. Oh and torque for the Crank pulley........150 ft/lbs. You need that sucker to be TIGHT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 @ 1 Lucky's pictures - - YIKES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just get the bracket for the tensioner you bought. Easy. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodhicheetah Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 So I hadn't actually got in there yet when I posted earlier. Man o' man, that belt was old. I don't actually know how many miles my subie has on it, as I found an auction report for it after I bought it (3 years ago). It had about 65,000 less miles when I bought it than it did 7 years earlier when the auction report was created... 212,000 when I bought it, and 277,500 on the report. The report had pictures of the odometer. Either someone rolled the miles back on purpose, or had to change out the dash cluster for some reason. I'm sure it has at least 300k as I've already put another 35k on it. All of that is to say, I have no idea if or when the timing belt was ever ever done. I'll post pics of it when I get a chance to load them, but I suspect that it might have been the original damn belt. I'm counting my blessings that it didn't fail on me. I already have the Aisin kit, as well as the correct OEM tensioner from the dealer (woulda got it on ebay for cheaper but didn't have time), so I'm just going to go ahead and replace it all. The Aisin stuff seems legit and if this car lasts another 100k I'll be stoked. Small price to pay. I got as far as taking it all apart, gonna pick up where I left off tomorrow. Already feelin' pretty satisfied Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodhicheetah Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Oh, and thanks for the info, and the scary pics! And yea, I might try like 110 ft/lb for the crank pulley. I actually replaced the pulley a while back... but of course now I can't remember what I went with at that time. G'night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 It’s a moot point but Calling dealers has limitations and is heavily biased towards 10 years or newer vehicles. The people answering the phone have probably never touched a timing belt. The techs don’t answer phones. Dealers rarely work on anything of age because few people take older cars to dealers in many areas, to the point it’s as if 80s and 90s stuff doesn’t exist. Even my 2006 Tribeca is a dinosaur around here, I rarely see anything even that old at my dealer. You can install either tensioner on either vehicle, like GD said just get the $35 bracket for whichever one you want to install. You can return the one you bought from the dealer. The older style two piece is more reliable so if they’re both new OEM that’s a good one to install. follow Gloyales lead on the crank pulley. They fall off all the time. I use a 3 foot pipe and go bonkers on it. It’s a steel crank so you won’t strip it like the rest of the aluminum of the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 @ 1 Lucky's pictures - - YIKES! It's why you constantly read recommendations to change the rollers at the belt service. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 The sad part is at the local dealership they just change the belt unless you specifically request they change the rollers. In reality it's only the cost of the parts, little extra labor involved once you get the timing belt off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Crank pulley torque is 130 ft. lbs. Same as a lug nut on a 3/4 ton pickup truck. Yeah, seen many where someone used the "starter trick" to get it loose and don't have the special tool, or know how to hold the engine to get it tight enough. The pulleys come loose and even destroy the crankshaft sometimes. If you don't have a pulley tool, there are holes in the side of the bellhousing where you can insert a punch or screwdriver to catch the flywheel. If it's a manual trans, just put it in 5th, and have someone stand on the brakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodhicheetah Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Been an interesting ride.Went with the one-piece tensioner because I couldn't be bothered to run to town (2hrs round trip) to get the bracket. The old tensioner actually seemed fine, but I changed it anyway. I'll sell the other two-piece one on ebay, no biggie. All the rollers' (pulleys, whatever) bearings definitely seemed worn. They spun freely (as opposed to the new ones which are a little stiff...), had a bit of play to them and made a little bit of noise, so I'm glad I got those with the kit too. Water pump seemed fine, but changed it anyway. I think the belt may have been changed at least once because the cover gaskets were the wrong size, unless they somehow magically expand in length. They were like an inch or two too long, and the previous person had just squished em in there all wonky which might explain why my cover was rubbing slightly against the crank pulley. I cut sections out of them so they fit properly. Gonna buy a new middle cover and gaskets when I do the head gaskets...Yep, head gaskets. The whole reason I decided to do the timing belt now was because my radiator started leaking and the engine overheated, and I knew it'd be easier with the rad outa the way. I was naively optimistic that it was just the radiator causing the over heat I bought a new rad and t-stat, and then decided to do the timing belt as well. I've since done a bunch of reading about HG symptoms and mine are pretty classic, wish I'd known.After I got it all buttoned back up and went to burp the system, coolant started boiling and steaming out of the filler cap before the fans even had a chance to come on. Then I rented a "block test kit" just to be 110% sure but couldn't use the damn thing because the coolant kept bubbling up through the rad cap and contaminating the tester, even though I drained the coolant down significantly. I guess I'd have to use one of those 2 level jobby jobs.... Anyway, I'm kinda lookin forward (in a weird way) to doing the HGs. Will be satisfying if I can pull that off, and I actually have access to an engine lift and mount, so I think I'll pull the engine. (And yes, do all the other gaskets/seals and have the heads machined, etc, etc, The main thing I'll be looking for now is the jdmfsm head gasket torque procedure for an EJ22EZ...hint hint. Anybody got a lead on that? Other than that there's a lingering question about the possibility of the heater core causing the overheat...but everyone seems to say it's always the HGs... Anyway, Here's those photos of my old belt...And the new one installed.. Now I get to take it all apart again, lol. Oh, and I went with 130 ft/lbs for the crank pulley. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 That’s normal, or common, timing cover gaskets frequently expand due to exposure (usually to leaking oil). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodhicheetah Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Really? I guess that would explain it. I figured someone got the wrong gaskets (like for a DOHC or something) and just tried to make them work... I could see them getting puffier but wouldn’t have thought they’d lengthen that much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Oh yeah they swell and stretch like crazy. Over time even the plastic covers themselves swell and interfere with the accessory belts and pulleys. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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