Sundance Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 My wifes '95 legacy 2.2 starts rough. Harder when cold, but chuggs almost all the time. No codes........... We changed out the Coolant Temp Sensor in hopes that was it.......... no change. Once it's warmed up and shut down, it starts fine. Head scratcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abog Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Have you replaced the fuel filter lately? Poor fuel flow can cause this as can bad gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yes we replaced the fuel filter a week or two before we did the Coolant Temp Sensor. She has to always give it a little gas to get it going, then it chugs. At 0 or below it can be a hard start. Only been doing it for a month or two. Getting really frustrating. We've run injector cleaner in the gas as well. New plugs and wires too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregdavis Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sorry I don't have a solution but I can tell you what I tried when I had this problem. I had a 94 legacy and it would do almost this same thing. It would crank and crank and crank when the engine was cold and would eventually start. Usually had to jump it to start it as it would wear the battery down. Once it was started though it would run just like nothing was wrong. Even if you turned it off right away it would start right back up. I thought I was losing pressure in the fuel system so I tried turning the key on and off about ten times so that the fuel pump would run. Then I replaced the coolant temp sensor, mass airflow sensor, throttle position sensor, and even the ECM (not at same time). Nothing worked. Luckily most of these parts were free cause my friend had a junker. I lived with this problem for months because the car ran great once it was started. After about $300 and three mechanics didn't figure it out I finally traded it in for a 95 legacy. Since then I have wondered what the heck it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You guys sure you replaced the correct temp sensor? Dumb question SOMETIMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Chugging sounds like it went into a limp home mode. Maybe a flight test would be in order by a mechanic, unless you have those tools. Mine did the same things when my car went through a cluster failure, A mouse chewed up alot of wiring to several sensors ($$$$$$$$), but my chugging issue stemmed from an idle air control circuit and had to replace that particular valve. All good now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 The chugging only lasts a couple seconds. Then smooth as silk. She had it at the mechanic and of course when he went out at -15F it started perfectly!!!! No codes. We changed out the coolant temp sensor anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 mmmmmmm how are the plugs, wires, and coil. NGK plugs, OEM wires? You eliminated the fuel prime question. Maybe the injectors are sticking. How is the fuel pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 New plugs and wires........ but I doubt they are the reason. The intermittent nature is a baffler. Ran injector cleaner through more than once. We have not had the fuel pressure tested. But why would it run fine at most other times?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 New plugs and wires........ but I doubt they arethe reason. The intermittent nature is a baffler. Ran injector cleaner through more than once. We have not had the fuel pressure tested. But why would it run fine at most other times?? Could be a fuel pump starting to go. If it is original at that age then that would be suspect. The only reason a car would not run would be because you don't have air (engine condition), fuel (pump, pressure, filter, injectors), or spark (bad coil, plugs, wires) Subies don't like other brand plugs and wires but the OEM type, a bit more money up front but worth not dealing with performance problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'll assume you are positive you changed the correct coolant thermo sensor not the temp sensor for the dash gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I normally agree on the spark plug issue. But I am confident this is not ignition related. Fuel is something I will check into. But I still get puzzled why it starts like a champ all other times after a cold start (by cold I me sub freezing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'll assume you are positive you changed the correctcoolant thermo sensor not the temp sensor for the dash gauge. Not really.......... I was 350 miles away. The parts store guy gave it to her, and a mechanic put it in. Like $70 labor.... I'll check. Are they both located in the same area? Is one easier to install?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Not really.......... I was 350 miles away. The parts store guygave it to her, and a mechanic put it in. Like $70 labor.... I'll check. Are they both located in the same area? Is one easier to install?? maybe call your wife or the parts store guy and get the part number to cross check. location mat not matter if they gave her the other sensor. the shop installed the part supplied. it appears they are right next to each other, passenger side, under the intake, threaded in to the coolant pipe that goes forward to the top radiator hose. the one you want is closer to the middle, item #1 below, the outside one is for the instrument cluster gage, item #4 below. the gage sensor has only one wire ( pics from advance auto parts) gage sensor coolant temp sensor part numbers can be found here: http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_25/cooling_system/water_pipe_1/ Edited February 13, 2009 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thanks John for the pics and diagrams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 John, We have confirmed that the correct sensor was installed. Unfortunately, the problem remains,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 John, We have confirmed that the correct sensor was installed. Unfortunately, the problem remains,,,,, I would have a fuel volume and pressure test done when the car is stone cold. It really sounds like a fuel problem. Good luck:) Let us know what you find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well the problem persists. Now the car is getting an MPG (city) of 14.5!!! She says it smells rich, starts like a pig. I hate to throw her to the mercy of the local Subaru dealer.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Fuel pressure regulator may be going south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merogul Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi, I have a 2007 Subaru Impreza. It does the same thing. The dealer says nothing wrong with my car. They changed the spark plugs (they get oily and wet when I crank it too many times) and installed a new program a couple of times. They also got some computer readings to send to Japan. I have written my problem before in this forum and I was told that the coolant sensor might be bad. However, Subaru mechanic in Turkey said that the engine check light would be on if some sensors were bad. Since it is under warranty, I have just sued the dealer. They have not been able to fix it. This is very frustrating and I am tired of this problem. I hope somebody can solve this problem. It is obvious that Japanese engineers cannot solve this problem. Good luck. Mehmet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 We've had 3 Subaru's. The best was the '90. I'll not buy another........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Well add a new fuel pressure regulator to the new parts pile............ Did nothing................ Still starts like a pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjaben43 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 possible injector leakdown, take a battery and check them if you hear a click then they are doing their job, if not then while sitting it may be flooding, another sign of this is your mileage will suck you should be in the 23- 25 range if its lower then this may be your prob, and the injector is stuck open givin one or more cylenders gas all the time, also lowering pressure on the other ones. also check your coil, start it up and one by one pull the plugs off the coil they should arc to the coil when working, but be carefull this is a job for a good rubber glove because if it arcs thru your finger it will feel like flowers blowing in a warm spring breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Well add a new fuel pressure regulator to the new partspile............ Did nothing................ Still starts like a pig. Did you check the regulator's operation before replacing it? If so, what was the fuel pressure? Have you tried resetting the ECU after parts replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Did you check the regulator's operation before replacing it? It was installed by a mechanic If so, what was the fuel pressure? I will check, I would hope it was bad........ $180 bad. I am on the road........... Have you tried resetting the ECU after parts replacement? How do you reset the ECU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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