Bubs360 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I've got a tough decision to make. Rust free '90 Legacy Wagon AWD from Oregon. Runs and drives perfect. 180k miles on the body, 65k on a new motor and clutch. Clean title for it, as well as a folder with all records and repairs dating back to the mid 90's. Five speed, everything seems to work fine. I test drove it recently and was turned off by a grinding noise which I've asked about on here. Grinding on acceleration and engine braking. Coasting with the clutch in, no noise. So it isn't a CV joint issue. Current owner has driven it for quite a while like this, and it doesn't seem to affect the car's driving. My opinion and that of fellow member bratman18 is that it's the throwout bearing. I would just buy a whole clutch kit with everything for $250 and install it in my automotive class rather than pay Belknap Subaru $510. He's asking $1,100. What's your opinion on the car, fellow members? I don't want to jump into a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well, it is likely a good car. I'll bet it is the mainshaft bearings in the TRAN. The TB's ussually only make noise at idle. Good news is I've seen and driven lots of them with kinda noisy transmissions, and they seem to hold up fine. At least until the front seal blows and you get gear oil dripping out of the bellhousing. Even so, replaceing both bearings and resealing the tranny can be done for less than 100 in parts. Search for posts started by me for " Bearing replacment" you'll get my writeup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm pretty sure the '90 Legacy had common issues with the input shaft bearing (and possibly other tranny bearings), which they dealt with by '91. If the noise stops when you are pressing on the clutch, it is definitely not a throwout bearing. That will make noise as you press on the clutch. Does the noise change depending on which gear you are in, or does it follow the engine RPM as long as there is an acceleration or deceleration load on the drivetrain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubs360 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm pretty sure the '90 Legacy had common issues with the input shaft bearing (and possibly other tranny bearings), which they dealt with by '91. If the noise stops when you are pressing on the clutch, it is definitely not a throwout bearing. That will make noise as you press on the clutch. Does the noise change depending on which gear you are in, or does it follow the engine RPM as long as there is an acceleration or deceleration load on the drivetrain? Yes, it follows the engine RPM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The reason I said throw out bearing is because that is the noise that I had in my Brat. After I replaced the clutch and throwout bearing it stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubs360 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 So I'm giving myself tomorrow to decide on this car. As long as it can hold out for a few weeks before I can get into my class to fix, it should be fine. I'm debating about, given I can figure out the exact cause of the noise, getting a clutch kit and installing, or doing the mainshaft bearings and front seal on the transmission, or both since the transmission has to come out either way. He drove it across the country like that from Oregon and it seems they last a while like that, so it seems I might pick it up this weekend. I just wish I could determine whether it is the throwout bearing, mainshaft bearings or even a differential problem before I buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) So I'm giving myself tomorrow to decide on this car. As long as it can hold out for a few weeks before I can get into my class to fix, it should be fine. I'm debating about, given I can figure out the exact cause of the noise, getting a clutch kit and installing, or doing the mainshaft bearings and front seal on the transmission, or both since the transmission has to come out either way. He drove it across the country like that from Oregon and it seems they last a while like that, so it seems I might pick it up this weekend. I just wish I could determine whether it is the throwout bearing, mainshaft bearings or even a differential problem before I buy. plan on a trans swap. if the seller isn't trans noise knowledgeable, offer him 500$, cause it needs a trans, which could run 700 - 1000$ installed. if you don't have to do the swap, all the better. but start low. if you really want to get the price down, drive it to a trans shop and get a repair quote. he's probably selling it because the repair cost is too high. Edited February 12, 2009 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubs360 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 plan on a trans swap. if the seller isn't trans noise knowledgeable, offer him 500$, cause it needs a trans, which could run 700 - 1000$ installed. if you don't have to do the swap, all the better. but start low. I appreciate you saying this. What makes you think it needs an entire new transmission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I appreciate you saying this. What makes you think it needs an entire new transmission? it may not be, but if you have to pull the trans for a throw out or input shaft bearings that part or the labor is all the same. now you just have to compare the parts and labor for what ever bearing may be making the noise against the cost of a used trans. i passed on a 97 obw with trans noise. it could have been the throwout bearing but it went away when the clutch pedal was pressed to the floor. i was unwilling to risk input shaft bearings. gloyale says it's doable, but not by me. but if you get it cheap enough, you can get a trans put in it. the low mileage engine is almost worth 500$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubs360 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 it may not be, but if you have to pull the trans for a throw out or input shaft bearings that part or the labor is all the same. now you just have to compare the parts and labor for what ever bearing may be making the noise against the cost of a used trans. i passed on a 97 obw with trans noise. it could have been the throwout bearing but it went away when the clutch pedal was pressed to the floor. i was unwilling to risk input shaft bearings. gloyale says it's doable, but not by me. but if you get it cheap enough, you can get a trans put in it. the low mileage engine is almost worth 500$. This is a tough call. Either way I will be doing the work myself so labor costs are not an issue. I just need to figure out what I am dealing with here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This is a tough call. Either way I will be doing the work myself so labor costs are not an issue. I just need to figure out what I am dealing with here. if you are doing it your self, i will be less risky to install a good used trans with a 3 month warranty and a new throwout bearing. it will cost more than replacing the bearings on the input shaft, but if you read that write up..... it's beyond me. so get the car price low enough, you can still get a good car for a good price after the trans swap. there should be others available in your price range, don't be afraid to walk away. it probably won't sell quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Ya I wouldn't jump on it unless he is more flexible on the price. You can keep your eyes open on the parts shed at bbs.legacycentral.org though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This is a tough call. Either way I will be doing the work myself so labor costs are not an issue. I just need to figure out what I am dealing with here. pm sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskanjer Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm troubleshooting my own trans/clutch rumbling noise and a few searches have confused me with what seems like conflicting information. (Also, is it proper etiquette is to start my own thread or continue this one.) ...snip... If the noise stops when you are pressing on the clutch, it is definitely not a throwout bearing. That will make noise as you press on the clutch. ...snip... and from http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=30232 The release fork pushes on one side, the clutch pressure fingers on the other. The bearing slides free on the shaft. So, the bearing face that contacts the fork does not rotate. The other face will often rotate even with the clutch pedal up, because the fingers are still in slight contact with it. If the noise goes away with only slight pressure on the clutch pedal, then the TO bearing is worn. If you have to press the pedal far enough to actually disengage the clutch before the noise dissappears, then the main bearings in the gearbox are worn. Slight pressure just takes up the slack in the TO bearing and quietens things down. Sometimes, if the clutch linkage has too much freeplay, the bearing face will clear the fingers completly with the pedal up. A worn bearing will then only squeal under slight pressure, because that gets it moving. The noise disappears when you press harder. ...snip... My rumbling goes away with the clutch about halfway depressed. It's really loud at a cold start with the clutch pedal released in neutral. I think it is quieter (again in neutral with the clutch pedal out) after being driven. It's a '96 legacy brighton with 173K mi. on the original clutch (is that possible? I bought the car used with 70K.) FWIW I have been pretty faithful with preventative maintenance and most recently changed the gear oil @ 140K with Valvoline synthetic 75w 90. I just checked the level and it is still at the Full line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Both of those statements are correct, but they're dealing with slightly different situations. Setright is talking about when the TO bearing is just starting to get worn. It'll make noise as it begins to brush against the clutch fingers, since it's not turning yet due to its resistance, and the rubbing causes a noise. With the clutch depressed farther and more load on the bearing, it spins and the noise will sometimes go away. If the clutch is properly adjusted to keep the TO bearing away from the fingers, this condition will not make any noise except when the pedal is depressed just to the end of its free travel. I was referring to when it's really starting to get bad, where the TO bearing growls as it rotates with a load on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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