98sub2500leg Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I am just posting this for honest personal feedback. I am sealing my HG's on my 98 Sub 2.5L DOHC. I would have had this done by now if it wasn't for all the monkeying around with different torque wrenches. I bought 4 total. A cheaper 3/8" drive 10-150 ft-lb clicker dial type(worthless-didn't work at all). I also bought a Craftsman 1/2" digitork 25-250 ft lbs. (again no good, didn't work at all and I returned it). I also bought a beam type (3/8"- scale is inch lbs). I believe small scale beam(scale) types are fairly reliable. With all the internet reviews, I bucked up & bought a Snap on digital scale with beep & vibration-Very quick, no monkeying around, and dead nuts accurate. If I had known how well & quick this speeds things up, I would have bought it a long time ago. I lost a lot of time making several trips into town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I do not like the ones with the pointer it is to hard to read in some positions. I use the clicker types that are sold in auto stores and Harbor Freight. I do not know that they are accurate but I'am sure I get most things closer to right then doing it by feel alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I broke down and got a decent Sears clicker to do the low torque necessary for the HG jobs. I waited until it was on sale for 100 bucks. I often borrow a friends fancy Snap-on. It's cool because it does the vibration thing and all. But what I really like is that you can read the final torque of each bolt in the final tightening phase. You can read the torque on the readout going either direction. Usually they are all in a range within 20 lbs - usually maybe 10 pounds or so. I forget the exact range. I usually write the #'s down for each bolt on each head on the card that comes in the HG package from Subaru when I borrow his wrench. I have the beam types - I hate them. I used to mark them with paint and use them for lugs. Then I just bought a Hardor Freight/ Northern Tool, I don't even remember cheap clicker that I just leave set to 85 lbs for lugs. Turns out that's about what I did by feel anyways on aluminum wheels. Yea - I know I shouldn't leave the high quality chinese torgue wrench set. I still go by feel mostly anyway. Figure it's better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Maybe I just had bad luck on getting 2 bad wrenches. The beam type to me are ok for inch-lb applications, I can seem to dial the needle in pretty well without it moving around when your trying to get a reading. Mainly, I am only concerned about getting the right torque on the head bolts. It was worth the $$ to make sure it was right especially after how much I have into this job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swi66 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I use Snap On myself. Best quality, and good service. Of course I am a car hobbyist who has a Snap On dealer stop by my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We haven't had a local Snap-on guy for probably 2 years. Last swivel head ratchet that I had that needed fixed/replaced took about 5 weeks. Matco, Mac, and Sears are picking up business for hand tools. Think about it. Would be a tough gig to feed one of those trucks and drive around. They probably concentrate on the big ticket electronics and stuff. Snap-on is dwindling fast around here. I sold an old Legacy to a Snap-on dealer from 50 miles away a year or so ago. I've been buying more and more Sears just for convenience. But as they cut back on what they stock they start overnighting the broken tool to you. Sucks when you're inthe middle of a project. But still WAY before I'd see a Snap-on guy. As a result I do buy some Snap-on but at auctions and on Ebay. Last new piece I bought was a 1/4 swivel head ratchet that I use for torque converter bolts mostly. I posted in the tool thread that not Gearwrench makes a set of 1/4 and 3/8 for 60 bucks (I got mine cheaper off Ebay). I paid 80 for just the Snap-on and I swear it's the same unit. The torque wrenches are nice. I guess I'm old school in thinking that hand tools shouldn't take batteries. And with no local service I just couldn't bring myself to pay the price for Snap-on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I've had fairly good luck with Harbor freight stuff for ones used occasionally. If I want a good one to use all the time, I'll usually get it at McGuckins and get a more reputable brand. On torque wrenches, I think I just bought a middle range one from Checker Auto (1/2" drive clicker) and it's worked quite well for what I've needed it for (a few head gaskets and engine work mostly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 If I didn't have to remove the heads I more than likely would have not cared so much. Before tackling the job, I spend about 2 weeks going over all the internet posts and reada lot of posts on head gasket failures after the HG job was just completed. The range of failures was between 0-30k miles, with it seemed an average of 7000-8000m before secondary failure. There is a guy who was desperate who said he paid up 3x to have it re done and it failed again after the 3rd time. I would personally trust a strain gauge(which is what is used for the electronic scaling inside the snap on) than a mechanical method on those head bolts which have an offset torque. the snap on can get it to the foot pound. Don't get me wrong, the mechanical can be just as effective , I like to be as dead nuts accurate as possible, especially after how much I already have $$ in the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I am just posting this for honest personal feedback. I am sealing my HG's on my 98 Sub 2.5L DOHC. I would have had this done by now if it wasn't for all the monkeying around with different torque wrenches. I bought 4 total. A cheaper 3/8" drive 10-150 ft-lb clicker dial type(worthless-didn't work at all). I also bought a Craftsman 1/2" digitork 25-250 ft lbs. (again no good, didn't work at all and I returned it). I also bought a beam type (3/8"- scale is inch lbs). I believe small scale beam(scale) types are fairly reliable. With all the internet reviews, I bucked up & bought a Snap on digital scale with beep & vibration-Very quick, no monkeying around, and dead nuts accurate. If I had known how well & quick this speeds things up, I would have bought it a long time ago. I lost a lot of time making several trips into town. I myself have a Mastercraft clicker and used it to tighten my head bolts about two years ago (no problem since). How did you know the first torque wrenches you bought were bad? Did you test them against a known good working wrench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 I bolted a 3/4" bolt & nut to a 12awg Unistrut bracket and clamped the bracket into a vise. Since I didn't have a scale, this was the closest method I could conger up. I knew I had used more than both wrenches showed on the wrench setting. In fact, well beyond that and they never ratcheted out. I wasn't going to compromise the HG's so I decided to buy the snap on to be safe. I rechecked the Craftsman 1/2" Digitorq wrench against the Snap On wrench. The Snap On showed the bolt was torqued to 51 ft lbs when I had it dialed in at 25 on both the Craftsman and the 3/8" Duralast torque wrenches. Neither one of the two worked. The Snap On was also calibrated so I knew it was a good reading. The dealer did the same test in his truck. After buying the Craftsman I went online and checked several reviews before using it. The average ratings were pretty low. A few rated it 5 of 5, but the majority rated it a 1 of 1 on several websites, the total average ratings that I saw were 1 of 1. There is also a lot of misinformation out there on the Craftsman warranty regarding torque wrenches. The digitork type has a 90 day satisfaction return only. The wrench has a 1 year warranty. After the 90 day-1 year period they will repair or re-calibrate it, but it usually takes up to 2 months on average before you get the wrench back. Since there was so much conflicting info out there I called & some associates there believed it the warranty was a lifetime, but it was clearly stated on the package it was 90 days and I confirmed that with the dept. manager. I was told that the beam types are all lifetime warrenty though. I personally would beware of what they tell you over the phone or ask for a manager. However, people have had good success with Harbor Freight types as well. Heck I have used them many times at work. My experience has usually been (but not always) you get what you pay for. **Not to be taken literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron917 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 This thread got me wondering how clicker torque wrenches work and if they could be calibrated and adjusted at home. As usual, Google helped me find some interesting info. Here's a page that describes how they work. The guy had a hosed up wrench, so he disassembled it and made some good photos. He briefly touches on how they are adjusted. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/torque_wrench/index.html This page has some interesting info, and shows a home-made torque tester for testing the accuracy of a torque wrench: http://home.jtan.com/~joe/KIAT/kiat_3.htm This page describes a simple method of testing accuracy and how to calculate a correction factor for your wrench: http://www.dieseldoctor.com/messageboard/data/229.html With careful measuring and weighing, you should be able to determine how accurate your torque wrench is. If you are brave, you can try to adjust it yourself. I don't recommend DIY calibration and adjustment for critical applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Nice finds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 If you have the crasman clicker types, pop the cap off the end and put some green loctite on the lock nut in there. The reason those clickers get such bad reviews is that nut loosens up over time and eventually comes off then you can't adjust the torque, and you would need a verryryyy thin wall socket to get that nut back in place. The green loctite should seep into the threads and keep that nut from loosening up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 The only problem is if you have one under the warranty period of 1 year and need it, they may void it when they open it. If it's beyond the one year warranty I would do it. I believe at least on a new tool you shouldn't have to. At least when you pay $100+ for one, it should come calibrated. I actually didn't know they had a green version. I have always used Purple for (min strength), Blue for (mid strength), and Red (permanemt). I have never used a red that I couldn't still get out though when I use it. Where does it on the purple, blue, red scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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