MG McAnick Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The car is a '99 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5. I changed all four plugs as they were clearly worn at 131K miles. That didn't make any difference. I checked the wires with an Ohm meter. All appeared to be within spec. I took the coil pack off and took it to Autozone where the guy checked it with a meter which I assumed was an ohmmeter. He said it was within spec, but on the low end. I don't know whether he knew what he was talking about or not. I let him sell me a new one with the understanding that I could return it if that didn't fix the problem. It didn't, so they got it back. I do not see or hear any vacuum leaks. Short of taking it to the local dealer, who doesn't have the greatest reputation, what should I try next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Brand of the plug wires on 2.5's is VERY important. They need to be OEM it seems. Red with the name Yasaki (or something) usually. Hope you installed good old (and cheap) BKR5E-11's with the GREEN writing. Update you profile with a better idea of where you are incase a member is close that may be able to help or have spare parts. What brand is the coil pack? Youi're hopeing for Diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG McAnick Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 The plug wires are the brand you mentioned. I suspect at least one has been replaced as there are two with the number 3 on them. Yes, got them back on right. I don't know the number on the plugs AZ sold me, but they were not the same as those I removed. I'm not near the car right now, so I can't look. Some more info may be helpful. The car was being driven about 65 on the highway when it went sour. It would only make about 40 after that. She drove it about 15 miles after that. It did not overheat. The fluid levels are fine. I see no leakage of oil or coolant anywhere. The exhaust is clear, no "maple syrup" smell. The car is in Wichita KS although the owner is from KC KS. I have a week to get this figured out before the owner comes back for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Pull the plugs back out, are they still firing (color of the plugs will tell you what is going on)? Put the recommended plugs in (see above) It could be that the timing has jumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG McAnick Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Since the ignition timing can't be changed to my knowledge, I suppose you are referring to the valve timing when you say the timiming may have jumped. (?) That's possible, but the belt is only 32K miles and 18 months old. I guess I need to check compression next. I didn't bring my compression tester to the house call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Not sure if this was causing the same problem with my 95 Legacy EJ22, but the front pulley came loose and started to eat the key way causing metal shavings to settle on and near the crank angle sensor. I know this is part of the triggering mechanism for Subarus. You may want to pull your sensor and see if it is clean. In my case, I waited too long to fix the problem and now a new front pulley wobbles, so the end of the crank is worn. New engine time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I suggest you replace the plugwires with OEM ones even though it may not solve the trouble you are having. They are due to be replaced and can add to performance. You should check the compression as you said to see if something is wrong there. If the compression is ok you may need to replace one of the engine sensors. Checking the signals from the sensors with a scope may show up something wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG McAnick Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Well shoot. It has low compression on 1 & 3. It looks like it's time for the pros to take over. My guess is the timing belt has lost some teeth on that side. Is this 2.5L an interference engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 All 2.5's are interference I believe. Update your state in your profile. There may be a helpful member near you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Yes, the 2.5 is an interference design. However, the fact that the engine starts and runs might mean things aren't too bad yet. If the belt skips only one tooth, it can affect performance quite a bit, but still not have valve contact. Normally you'd see about 180 PSI compression if all was okay -- if it's measuring 135 PSI or somewhat higher on both #1 and #3, the belt is probably off by one tooth. Since the '99 is a DOHC, whether intake, exhaust, or both cams are mistimed would make a difference. Assuming there hasn't been valve contact yet, it would probably be prudent not to wait to have the problem looked into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG McAnick Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have an appointment to deliver it to a full line indy shop on Wed morning. Since she already drove it broken several miles, am I safe in assuming that there is little danger of further damage, or should I have it towed? If anyone knows of a good Subaru guru in the Wichita Kansas area, please let me know. The guy at the shop I usually use is quite capable of installing a timing belt or even removing a head if needed, but he's no Subaru junkie like I'd like him to be. Unfortunately Subaru's are not as popular here as they should be. Even though this is a metropolitan area of roughly half a million people, I can sometimes go all week and not see one. If I go to Arkansas or Colorado I'll see ten in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have an appointment to deliver it to a full line indy shop on Wed morning. Since she already drove it broken several miles, am I safe in assuming that there is little danger of further damage, or should I have it towed? We don't know for sure what happened. If the timing belt did jump, it might do it again and make things worse -- or not, it's a gamble. Flatbed ''towing'' isn't inexpensive, but it's the safest approach in terms of the engine and protective of AWD. If you elect to tow, you might also consider asking the shop to pull the covers and look at the belt timing before trying to run the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG McAnick Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) I thought it would be a good idea to post back with "the rest of the story" as ol' Paul Harvey used to say. I wound up taking it to a good mechanic that I have used many times. He's not a Subaru mech, but has always figured out anything I've given him, given a good manual and a little time. Besides, he lets me buy parts wholesale then bring them to him. He tore into it a week ago last Wednesday. I elected to order the new idler kit from Autozone as I didn't think we had time to wait for an ebay order to arrive. When AZ got the kit, the tensioner pulley was WRONG. It had what I'd describe as an additional half moon hole in it instead of the round one that would slide onto the tensioner. I took it back. Their computer said it was right. (If it's not in the computer AZ is often lost.) The commercial counter man called Dayco, who is the kit's compiler. THEY looked it up and faxed him pictures showing the correct bearing already installed on a tensioner. Unfortunately the SKU (That's the Shop Keeping Unit number connected to the bar code) was not in AZ's system, but the right kit existed. They killed 36 hours getting the SKU into their system before AZ could order the kit. When it came in via FedEx next moring air, it had the tensioner included. Since they'd already charged me for the kit without the tensioner, and caused me an extra three day wait, they GAVE me the more expensive kit at no extra charge. They were A LOT cheaper than the local dealer, so despite the extra wait it was worth it. Praise MT Fuji, there were no bent valves. Two notches out of synch on each pulley on the 1/3 side apparently was not enough to kiss the pistons. The 2/4 side didn't slip. The notched pulley's bearing had dried up, but was still barely turning, causing the whole problem. As for the difficult crank pulley bolt, asked and answered in another thread, he got it off using the suggested "starter bump" method. He'll file that for future Subaru reference. My total out of pocket, including four bearings, a new Water pump, Gates belt, and a tensioner (which I would probably have not replaced had it not been free) was $477.62. I think that's pretty reasonable. Edited June 27, 2009 by MG McAnick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Praise MT Fuji, there were no bent valves. Two notches out of synch on each pulley on the 1/3 side apparently was not enough to kiss the pistons. The 2/4 side didn't slip. The notched pulley's bearing had dried up, but was still barely turning, causing the whole problem. [...] My total out of pocket, including four bearings, a new Water pump, Gates belt, and a tensioner (which I would probably have not replaced had it not been free) was $477.62. I think that's pretty reasonable. Thanks for getting back to us with ''the rest of the story''. Considering the possibilities when a timing belt jumps on an interference engine, you probably couldn't have asked for a much better outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Glad you got the problem solved and thanks very much for the feedback also. This could help someone else later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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