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Guest Message by DevFuse

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81 replies to this topic

#26 Guest_E Zap_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 02:08 PM

I think I speak for Ken when I say this: You won't be able to blame either of us for where it's located this year. We both paid admission same as the rest of you. Bad mouth away, we've stepped back.

So keep your emails and figure it out yourselves, we'll see you there. :)

Eric Zap

#27 Guest_Lewy80DL_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 02:19 PM

Smash, pull in your horns, I was just clearifing where these two clubs were established. Ken, co-founder of the Hatch Patrol lives in Bonney Lake, WA., Jamie, current co-director of PWSEC lives in Kirkland, WA., is that saying that these are only Washington clubs? NO!!! You stated that you thought the Hatch Patrol was Oregan based, I was just correcting that statement. Heck I have 10 acres in Prineville, Oregon, I've got relatives in Sisters, Oregon, I think I know where it is.

Man, I can't believe that you got all of that out of what I said, I don't think that I ever said that you didn't have a ground to stand on. I for one would never deny you that.

I would drive (let's see 3 to Portland, then another 3) 6 hours to a place that had similar facilities as Thurston ORV, is there one in central Oregon??

By the way, I have never gotten any communications from PNWSEC unless I intitated it. They had a Christmas party and I found out about it after the fact. I still do not have my card. The last time I tried to get to the web site, it was down, which prompted an e-mail to Jamie, which cause her to post something here. So even us BIG headed :lol: Washingtonians don't get info from PNWSEC.

#28 Guest_SubaruJunkie_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 02:34 PM

I think we need to all calm down. I dont want to drive the 16+ hours as well, but I do want to show up and meet all the great people and show off my car. If we have to drive to Olympia again, so be it. Lets all start to focus on the planning and the dates so we can make plans ahead of time.


#29 Guest_qman_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 02:44 PM

I am having one hell of a hard time replying to this in a civil manner. You guys sound like little kids.
Dam, if you have a problem with the location contact Jamie and have your voice heard subie_gal@hotmail.com

Please don't misquote me. I said "We have this date forever if we want it". That's how the park works. If you have a date from a previous year then you get first shot at that date the following year.

Russ, you know Jamie, email her and talk to her. Heck if you want to you can email me and talk to me. Probably won't get anything done but you can talk to me directly.

I am not going to defend something that I am not in control of. I will however defend the Hatch Patrol to the death.

Jamie will respond to anyone who wishes to contact her. I am sure that she would love to have a little involvement from others. You can not even imagine what it took for her to put that little show together. The biggest sponsor of WCSS3 was Smart Service. Without whose help this show might not even have happened. Yeah, Carr is a big, maybe even the biggest dealer. But after talking to them what did they offer Russ? I had a dealer there with a car for everyone to see and they gave us some pretty nice prizes and souveniers. As did Jamie. No one went home without at least one thing from the show.

I would suggest that if you don't like driving all the way here. Wait did anyone drive further than Shawn, Mick or Tim?

Ah, never mind. Deal with this as you see fit.

My email is in my signature. If anyone has anything to say to or about me direct them to my email.


#30 Guest_qman_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 05:39 PM

I'm leaving my previous post.

I am not against having it somewhere else. What I am against is everyone wants it in their back yard. I'm really sorry but that just can't happen. The show first happened here and probably should remain here...BUT...

If it moves to Oregon I'll be there just the same. I'm in it for the people and the memories. I have a lot of people from this board that I call my personal friends. They know who they are and we will do anything in our power for eachother. That's what I tell people about when they ask me why Subaru?

As I reread some of these posts I still hear enthusiasm for the show. Not so much the show but the meeting of people with shared interests. Let's remember what brought us together.

'nuf said.


#31 Guest_NV Zeno_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 06:51 PM

Sooo...It's the same weekend then, right? :)

#32 Guest_qman_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 06:55 PM

Dave, I like you. You are just so subtle.

I just got off of IM with Jamie. She said she will look in and reply. She also said feel free to email her at the link above. She will reply to your emails.

Date is still uncertain at this time. Sorry. Please check with Jamie.


#33 Guest_SubaruJunkie_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 09:35 PM

How about Colorado? Who would be willing to drive to colorado for a Subaru show so EVERYONE on the USMB can attend?


#34 Guest_Mike W_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 10:38 PM

WCSS1 was in Oregon? Huh? Sorry Russ, I was at WCSS1 and it was at Snoqualmie Pass Washington. Yes I'm sure it really was the "West Coast Subaru Show" because I remember the name being chosen.

I don't understand the uproar over the location of the show. Since the begining it has been plainly stated that the sites chosen where the best that the orgainizers could come up with and out of neccessity they were somewhat in the area of the hard working people putting on the show. I have no idea how many trips to the ORV park Qman, Jamie, Zap, and others made, but I'm sure it's a lot. And all along they have plainly stated that if someone else wanted to step forward and put on the show in another location they were welcome to it. Promoting and organizing and making the event actually happen doesn't look like a lot of fun, so these folks are to be commended for doing what nobody else wanted to! At this point I really don't think a bunch of criticism makes them excited about doing it again.

I personally would kind of like travelling a ways to go to the show. But then I guess I don't really care where it happens...it's about the people and their cars.
When the lifted gnarly offroad Subaru cult grows to epic proportions, I think we should have a national convention at Moab Utah or maybe do the Rubicon Trail.

#35 Guest_subyswamper_*

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Posted 01 February 2002 - 10:55 PM

I am also a Washington member, but I had no problem paying the small fees for two days packed with fun, food, prizes and a chance to camp out with a park full of subarus. If your going to bitch about $12 then I dont know why you would even bother coming. I think that last years event was the most fun I have ever had with any type of car club. And I also think a lot of people put a lot of effort into making it a great weekend for everone. hell the free food was worth the five bucks for membership.

And there is no reason you guys further south cant organize some type of get togethers and outings yourself. I think we should just be thankfull for the work that goes into these shows and enjoy what we got. where ever it ends up being.


#36 Guest_edrach_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 12:54 AM

I think it might be time for all of us to relax, take a few deep breaths and dwell on this. Obviously, I'm from Washington and I too still only have my "temporary" membership card in PNWSEC. Other things that may have been promised might not have happened. So be it. This group is a very loosely knit organization as far as car clubs goes. Trust me, I've been through the start and finish of more car clubs than I want to admit to. The people doing the work here are volunteers; they do it because they want to and not because they are paid to do it. So we don't have a newsletter---takes time and effort and badgering of people to submit articles for it on a timely basis, lots of time and work (and money to print it and mail it out). We are not a group that does rallies, fun runs, and autocrosses on a regular basis to raise money to support those type of expenses. Our "volunteers" have lives too and I for one don't begrudge them the time it would take to organize all of the "bennies" that this group would like. The other fact of life here is that the density of members is spread out over two very large states (or more, I don't mean to leave anyone out). To support other activities requires a "core" of dedicated people who live close enough together so that they could get together on a regular basis and do all these "fun" things like turn out newsletters and plan events. Realistically, that's not going to happen. My feeling is this is a loose knit group that is bound together by their love for the Subaru Marque and the enjoyment of what you can do with it. Enjoy it for what it is. Too much organization will spoil what we have here. I'm amazed we had such a phenomenal event at WCSS3 and I personally enjoyed meeting people I only knew from the posts on this board. The RallyX, the mudruns, the camping, the war stories were really more than I expected. That's my two cents worth.

#37 Guest_bratsco1_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 01:13 AM

HEy Dave nice glasses soooo What the hell is the prob..here....does it matter where it is ...other than the fact that a lot of the activity on the board starts from this area so lets do it somewhere else next year come on step up and take the responsebility naaaaaa just easier to bitch.....,.....Pat

#38 Guest_bratsco1_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 01:23 AM

Alright Im better now so ...what is the solution you guys want it in Idaho Il go ya want it in frickin calif.Il go the bottom line is if you dont wanna come .......dont se ya.........Pat

#39 Guest_mudrat79_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 02:12 AM

Here's My 2 Cents worth....

I like Ken And others see this thread as a whine session...? I didn't see any big Pitbulls at the gate or admissions box forcing anyone to kick down with money out of the ole' wallet... That all came out of your own free will.... I personally chatted with Jamie about having a WCSS in Oregon, Idaho or Cali, But as it has already been stated..unless some one in Oregon or Cali is going to step up to the plate and take on the HUGE responsibility of getting as good of an event as WCSS III was, together, it's not going to happen.Jamie As of WCSS III was all for it taking place in another state, But for that to happen she is going to need a runner in that state to get all the ground work done.

That would mean one or several people in that state finding a park capable of 4x4'ing, and a show and shine , plus enough camping accomodations for a massive group of cars and folks.In addition to getting some backing from Local Subaru dealerships for having it in their BackYard.....

I'm personally up to that Challenge, and I am currently in the process of getting these things figures out for a show over in Central Oregon. I doubt I will have it Concrete enough for this years Show, But am Hopeful for
WCSS IV ....Having a 6 month old in the house slows the wheeling down a bit, But if You Folks up in PortLand are so Gung Ho To get something going in Our State, Lets Talk instead of Whine...:)

You can e-mail me through My website or Directly at mudrat79@hotmail.com

Nite all, John and Crew in Oregon.....

#40 Guest_Hondasucks_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 03:54 AM

OK I had a cool idea.. It would take a LOT of planning and a LOT of work and a LOT of cooperation.. Maybe once every like 4-5 years or so we have like a US SUBARU MEET in colorado, or some other place central to all of us, and the like WHOLE BOARD like came to it.. That'd be cool and it would be a CRAPLOAD of Subarus!! We'd need one helluvan offroad park ;-)

#41 Guest_Lewy80DL_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 12:18 PM

Hondasucks, e-mail Subarujunkie, SubaruBob or myself ( corkysrocks@evergo.net), we are already heading that way.

#42 Guest_subeman90_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 03:01 PM

"Maybe once every like 4-5 years or so we have like a US SUBARU MEET in colorado, or some other place central to all of us,"

hold up a second.....not everyone lives in the PNW. Colorado is not centeral to someone such as myself (pennsylvania).

Furthermore the bickering really needs to stop. Somebody please just nail down the damn date and whoever shows up, shows up. For god sakes I am taking 2 weeks off to drive to the frickin' west coast just to be with some fellow subaru people (I have no other purpose at all other than the subaru meet). E Zap's videos are the total drive behind this trip. I bought a frickin' outback so I could sleep in the damn thing on the way out (was going to buy an RS).

Going to rip out some hair......ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH


#43 Guest_qman_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 03:23 PM

Subeman, you hit it on the head(so to speak).

This was the sole reason for a BIG show. Wasn't going to be convenient for everyone. It was the idea of getting as many crazy or sane Subaru people together. I also hope we can nail down a date very soon. I will see what I can do to get a date but if we don't like the ORV park then someone needs to get with it and nail down a site that can accomodate lot's of people(200+) and cars(100+), with camping, meeting facilities and big cost effective. Tough requirements huh? Well that's what we have been up against with this meet. Any volunteers? We may just have to flex our muscles a little bit and try to get the whole lower end closed off for our event. Those who were there last year will understand why.


#44 Guest_RSGirl_*

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 03:44 PM

I'd thought I would put in my few cents in too. I am a member of PNWSEC and one of the people stuck in the booth at the show registering cars for the show. I never forced ANYONE to join PNWSEC. We also told you to e-mail Jamie or Andrew if we forgot to mail you the Permanent cards.

WCSS 3 was mainly put together by Jamie and Andrew. These 2 people are the top dogs of the PNWSEC. I'm not saying that they put on the show themselves. They had a lot of help from people in and around the Seattle area. Those people checked around the state and ran to possible sites to check them out. MOST of the planning took place on the
I-Club's web site. I'm not saying that was the best forum to have the discussion, but it's what happened.

We had asked for help from the other PNW folks, but no one really stepped up to the plate. We had a few here and there willing to help out. But who designed the T-Shirts, who got the prizes for the raffle tickets, who got all the sponsors to help out with the cost and food???? That would be Jamie and Andrew.

I've talked to both of them and if anyone wants to head up the planning committee of WSCC 4 go right ahead. We are willing to drive out there and see all the fun. I personally may not make it due to the fact I'll have a 1 month old by then. :D

I had a BLAST at WSCC 3. I got lost in the hills with one of the Hatch Patrol and fell in love with their cars and the people. I froze my booty off sleeping in a tent and ate other people's food. I got dirty and muddy and had a ear to ear grin on my face the entire time. I personally think that Jamie and Andrew and the rest of the I-Club members did a great job putting on last year's show.

I hope that this year's is just as great.


#45 Guest_wrx1ab_*

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Posted 03 February 2002 - 02:04 AM

When is it Oh kindred spirits? Can I bring the superbeater? (you better believe it!) That little monkey is FUN! I can't wait to show it off!

#46 Guest_donald893_*

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Posted 03 February 2002 - 03:14 AM

DUDE relax your going to give yourself a hart attack i think the main reasons it's up here is is that th people willing to put in the time and effort t oginize it are up here putting on any kind of a car show take alot of time and effort and i'm not seeing anyone voulinterin to orinize a show eleswhere so put your time and effort where your mouth is the pnwsec has last i heard only 2 people that might be called club officers give em a brake peope have lives to live other than pnwsec and also if it wasn't for these people pnwsec would have died long ago ps i am not yet a member of pnwsec but
would like to be and my subaru probaly wouldn't even make it to olympia i live in everett s if i go this year i'll be in the daewoo

#47 Guest_Subie Gal_*

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Posted 04 February 2002 - 07:46 PM

ok gang... u dont like the way we do things?
nice to know we're appreciated.... *rolleyes*

why is the annual event in Washington??
of our membership:
80 people from washington...
30 from oregon
15 from elsewhere...
and of those 15, at least 5 are from BC

so as you can see, the majority of the pnwsec members are from Washington, thus making it convenient to have the event located in Wa.

I never promised anything would happen in OR or ID...
I never promised we'd have a rally there! That is preposterous!!! I dont even organize rallies!!! The RALLYCROSS event (there IS a difference people...) we had at ORV just happened to be chaired by me with great assistance from some of my more reliable friends and SCCA members. I volunteered to chair it as we were going to be at the ORV park anyway.

I did promise however, to do the best I can to stay connected. And if you dont know how to get a hold of me when you have a question by now... I GIVE UP!!!!!

Is it my fault the server died an our site has been down for weeks? no.... Did we repair it as soon as we could? yes.... are YOU paying for the server? no.... are YOU spending your free time working on the web site? no....

I find most of your comments completely dis-respectful and hurtful.

New News....
Membership cards will be mailed out this week - the club is buying the postage.
Membership cards are good for discounts at:
Carter Subaru - 10% off (see joe spitz)
Royal Moore Subaru - 10% off parts (see Richard Buckner)
Auburn Subaru - 10% off parts/service (see Gary Cavett)

Web site is back up and we will be having an on line newsletter, send email to jamie@subiegal.com to sign up or see the web site....

Well i was going to have a hands on, pizza feed and meeting in the Eastside area... but not sure that I want to right now. :( I WANTED to solicit ideas re: a venue for this summers event... I WANTED to narrow down a date so those of you who need to, can request work off.

now i just want to disconnect my computer... you people have NO IDEA how much work goes into this... nor how much MONEY WE TOOK AND RAN WITH... my God! We barely broke even!!! How u like that? We dont do these event for $$$ we do it for the love of the cars and the people!!!

Other ideas were to start up something such as a group of volunteers to work a section of road in the "Adopt a Highway program" and to also have monthly Pizza feed and meetings... sponsored and possibley paid for...

buuuut.... :(
u know how i feel right now...

#48 Guest_Lewy80DL_*

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Posted 04 February 2002 - 08:58 PM

A wise person once told me, never get a red head mad at you. Well fellows, looks like we've done it. Jamie, I think there are a lot of people here who DO appreciate what you have done, and hopefully will continue to do. Yea, I complained about my memebership card, but heck, if no one had mentioned it, I wouldn't have even known they exsisted, really. Hey if you want help with the web, just ask. I think I have enough room on my web site thet I could have hosted a temp site till the server was back up and running. So, lets go out for Pizza and talk.

#49 Guest_ShawnW_*

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Posted 04 February 2002 - 09:15 PM

I think I have a few cents to throw in this GIGANTIC piggy bank.

Sadie(my wife) and I attended the PNWSEC3 meet this past August, and were the FURTHEST from home.
PNWSEC did not require us to pay a membership, frankly most of the members of the club felt the 4500+ miles round trip was membership fee enough.

Everybody here knows I am a die hard EA81, 80's Subaru nut. But I showed up in my Legacy.
I took $hit from people for driving it too. Those that gave me $hit for driving it can kiss my rump roast again. Id like to see you drive an ea81 4500 miles in a 12 day period. 72hp through mountain passes is not a fun time, especially with a lot of gear and parts.
God forbid, I showed up in a Subaru at least!!!!!!!!!

I, like Jamie and others put a TON of time into Subaru.
I have a domain name, and website that I pay for out of my own pocket that I host photos of many of your cars on. The process of maintaining a website is not something that just takes an hour and you are done, this takes a lot of time.

I have taken **** for:
1-Driving my legacy to the Subaru show
2-Not lifting a Subaru yet
3-My website, the one that everybody thinks BillyC made.
4-This message board and its "nazi tactics that are like a police state"
5-Putting cars back on the road that "shouldnt have been saved and cost me more than I sold them for"
6-Making money selling parts-yeah right like I make money on selling parts of a parts car to a USMB member. We are a bunch of cheapskates.
7-Trying to organize a show in the midwest, and I suggested Colorado for a meet and got boo'd out of Dodge.
8-Going to bat for S-Wingstuff. God forbid I should try to help a guy that specializes in Subaru parts, ships them CHEAPLY, trusted many of you, and then didnt receive money for a few orders, didnt like how much time he had to spend to sell a $10 part, heard complaints from people for not having a toll free number, etc Mike at S-Wingstuff has what is basically an indoor warehouse of Subaru parts collecting dust because many of us are too cheap to pay him for providing a service and will bitch a fit because we can go to pick n pull in _________ town and buy a distributor for $10 when he wants $30. But god forbid he should get paid for storing, inventory, knowing more about Subaru parts than 99% of us do, and a living wage.
He tried to sell a set of Mint T-Top windows here for a normal price and got laughed at.

Heres some things for you internet savvy guys to look up:
Constructive criticism.
The Suggestion process.
Management of a group.
Being friends and helping your fellow man.
The Golden Rule.

My 2 cents on the PNWSEC.

I have only been to 1 meet, but it was terrific. It was a compromise.

It offered 4wheeling and a MAJORITY of you seemed VERY Interested in the hatch patrol but it wasnt a hatch patrol club meet it was PNWSEC.
BUT a MAJOR part of the planning happened to be taken care of by the HEAD guys of the hatch patrol.
I can see how that would be confusing to some but not anymore.

I thought the deal with the dues being ran off with in a previous year was rather crappy but what the heck are the current organizers supposed to do about it. Russ got upset about the raffle ticket payoff in an attempt to lessen the blow to people. Thats rediculous.

Jamie, Qman and Eric and a guy named Shawn I think all put in MANY hours into the show and didnt get paid, only to hear complaints. I dont think they have W2's or checks coming in the mail.
My thoughts on the Hatch patrol.
The founders can make whatever rules they want, its their club! If they want to make me put an LSD and lift kit on on of my Subaru's to be considered for membership then so be it. If I can be a member because I have 4 EA81 Powered Subaru's thats fine too.

If you dont like a club, dont join it. If you dont like who's running it, dont join it. If you dont like Subaru's dont buy one.
If I like Toyota's and Subaru's why do I have to take $hit from the likes of you just because I do. I own nothing but Subaru's but that doesnt mean it will always be that way.


If you want a meet in Colorado, organize one. Want one in Oregon, same thing. Ill do the same in Iowa, and Ill still show up (if we can get a date decided on soon enough) to the PNWSEC meet. I dont care if they hold it in a Grocery Store parking lot and theres a off road trail 10 miles west, a campground 30 miles east, and a racetrack 100 miles south.

My last point. We drive reliable, fun vehicles and are complaining about having to DRIVE them a little further to a meet. Apparently some of us own our Subaru to drive it 4 miles and park it.

I shall answer NO emails to this topic. Reply here only. I dont need an inbox full of comments on my BS here.

Any other complaints on the USMB, my webpage, my cars, my wife, my dog, my Body Odor, my spelling mistakes, my hair color, and my driving my Legacy to the Subaru show, you may email me. See signature line.

Oh yeah, 1 more thing.

I'd like to see someone organize a Subaru meet where 200+ people are going to show up, in a state they dont even live in. PNWSEC had to organize the price of the park, insurance for the rally, the SCOA, the Subaru dealers, the campground, directions to the park, food, etc and it wasnt perfectly smooth but they did really well. They listed to complaints and tried to address them. They allowed other clubs to take a turn at the mic and explain what they are about, etc.

Tell me where it is and I am putting in for vacation time.

I have pushpined this topic as I want it to stay at the top and be discussed, hopefully from this point on in a more constructive way.

#50 Guest_aressa_*

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Posted 04 February 2002 - 09:20 PM

Ok... I've tried to not reply to this thread for over a day and a half, but some things need to be said, and hopefully I can stay calm.

Thanks in advance to Ken & Lewy, thanks for the defense.

First - Location:

Let's look at the numbers that Jamie posted (shall I say 'that I gave to jamie'), and expand:
80 members from Washington. 90% of those are from the greater Puget Sound, and within 2-hours of the ORV park.
30 members from Oregon. Well over half of those are from the Greater Portland area, and within 3-hours of the ORV park.
15 from "elsewhere". No real need to expand on that, except to note: ONE is from Idaho, and ONE is from Californa. 5 from BC and the others scattered around.

Let's flash back to WCSS2: There were 30 cars, nearly half of the attendance, from Vancouver BC. Yes. Half. This was at an event within 2 hours of Vancouver (on the high end, closer to 1.5 hours in 'real time').
Flash to WCSS3: MOST of the canadians wanted to come to WCSS3, but at over a 4-hour drive, all but 5 bailed.

My point? My point is that as soon as you move then venue more than say 3 hours away from people, you start to lose attendance. The ORV park is within 3 hours of 80% of last years attendees, I challenge you to find a site that can reach that percentage. Note that if it is 6-hours from Seattle you will likely lose 50 cars, period (will you gain back that many by moving it? think on that)

Money and Time -

I am curious as to how many people actually understand what goes into the planning of an event of this scale. Did you know that I personnaly took two weeks of UNPAID LEAVE from my job to organized and finalize WCSS3? Jamie spent COUNTLESS weekends organizing prizes, from big to small, so that EVERYONE could walk away with something (and we were damn close).

Show of hands: How many people would walk away from a $3000 paycheck, to spend 14 10-hour days organizing the next event? ( note that you may be sh*t on the next year by nay-sayers)

Did you know that Jamie and I fronted nearly $1500 between us, out of our pockets, to even make the event happen? Did you know that I still have credit-card bills from last year with WCSS expenses on them? Did you know that after all of the money miscommunication and "entry fee" hassles that PNWSEC as a club earned about $200? [more on this]

Show of hands: How many people are willing to drop $1000, likely to never be seen again, just so 200 of your friends can have fun? ( note that you may be sh*t on the next year by nay-sayers)

Note about that $200: We never had "plans" to do a whole lot with any "surplus" we made after expenses. That money was to be SEED MONEY for WCSS4. The more seed money we have, the better event can be organized.

Obligations, mine and yours -

I made the membership cards. Jamie has them. No, they have not been sent. Why? Well, both jamie and I have been(were) out of a job, every little bit counts. As far as the other WCSS3 "things", I was burnt out, recently laid off, and just didn't do them (if you care you know what they are...).

Newsletter/website. Yes, the website is sparse. Yes, it was down. Sorry, this is all voulenteer work, no-one pays me (or my buddy who was hosting the site) to keep it up. And when the harddrive died, it took a while to get a new one and get the data off of it. As far as the newsletter and web content are concerned, I would LOVE to have some contributed articles. Content does not just APPEAR, I can only make up so much before I go numb. PLEASE, if you have something you would like on the website, send it to me, I would love to post it (same thing goes for the newsletter).

I guess I have said all I want to say. I apologize for Jamies and my tone, we were pretty off the hook when we saw this thread. Personally I'd rather lose the 5 naysayers from WCSS-IV than disservice 100 others. Ken, Lewy, et al., thanks for keeping it under control. Russ, you want the reign for WCSS-IV, we'll be happy to give them over to you, but you might want to put things into perspective before going off on WHAT WE OWE YOU.

Last time I checked it was the Pacific Northwest Subaru Enthusiasts CLUB. This is not a SERVICE, you get out of it what you put into it. To tell you the truth I have not been "repaid" for what I put into it last year, and to come to this thread and read this "dog food" (microsofties will know the term) makes me unwilling to contribute more.

Thats all...


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