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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Ej25 Swap: Phase 1 to Phase 2?

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6 replies to this topic

#1 the_bard


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Posted 01 July 2005 - 09:39 AM

Quick background: I found a '97 Legacy Outback just a mile or two away from my house. It's sitting on their back lot, in good shape body-wise (no rust underneath... woot!). The engine's toasted, though. Dealer says they bought it off auction, discovered it overheats, and replaced the water pump, radiator, and head gaskets, but it stills overheats. They're willing to swap out the engine for me at a very reasonable price ($4,000 for the car after the swap, 126k miles on the chassis).

My question: Rather than slapping another Phase 1 in there, would it be possible to slap a Phase 2 in there, without swapping the ECU or having to rewire? If there's a chance for headgasket issues down the road, I'd rather deal with the external leak than the internal.

#2 Bmm001


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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:21 PM

I would check with CCR Engines (www.ccrengines.com) and see what they say. From what I gather, they know their stuff and have an excellent reputation.


#3 the_bard


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Posted 01 July 2005 - 10:36 PM

Didn't even think of CCR, though I should have. Just fired off an email... we'll see when they get back to me.


#4 Commuter


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Posted 03 July 2005 - 06:50 PM

A former member on this board did just that with a 97 Legacy GT.

He ran into more issues than expected. I've posted before on this, and somewhere I have his emails. But briefly,

Differences in the throttle body area (forget whether TPS, or IAC or ...) You have to use the Phase II manifold. You can't bolt on the Phase I.
Differences in the sensor wheels for camshaft. (Maybe crank too.)
Re-routing power steering lines a bit.
Constant CEL for the EGR, as the Phase II doesn't have one.

And some other stuff I don't recall just now. He did use the wiring and ECU from the original car. He got it to all work, but was a bit of a pain.

I think you could just change out the short block only with Phase II, but not 100% sure on that. Cobb Tuning would probably know that answer in a second. And I don't know if that would lessen the chance of head gasket issues anyway.

Best bet... probably a CCR rebuilt Phase I with a 3 year 36k warranty.


#5 the_bard


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Posted 04 July 2005 - 08:57 AM

Sounds like I'll be sticking with the Phase 1, then. With all that extra effort, there's no way the dealer's gonna be willing to work around the other problems. The constant CEL will be a problem, too.

I'm supposedly getting the car at wholesale price ($3k), and he's willing to replace the engine for $1k. Not sure where he's getting the engine from, but he's assured me it's a low mileage replacement. From his story, he bought the car at auction, without knowing it was dumping coolant. He had his guys swap out a headgasket (not both?!), a water pump, etc. He claims he's losing money on the deal (probably), but he wants to get rid of it

It's still dumping coolant internally... I took it for a quick test drive to make sure the tranny was fine, and it was billowing white smoke out the back. Really bad on start up (it's been sitting for a while), but tamed down after a few minutes. I'm not sure why they only swapped out the one headgasket, but I'd feel better with a replacement engine (though I'd like to know where it's coming from).

Only other problem with the car regards the e-brake handle... the ratchet mechanism that locks it isn't working, though there's tension on it when you pull the handle. The button to set it is missing, too... I'll end up handling that myself, assuming I can get the car off the lot once I've bought it, without being inspected by them (10 day extension sticker, anyone?)

#6 Meeky Moose

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 08:05 PM

the phase 2 engines will not work in a car that had a factory phase 1 in it..

i picked up a 99' outback with thte phase 1 for $1000.. had a cracked block due to not getting the head gaskets fixed and being sebverely overheated.

i put a 2.2l from a 95' impreza in mine.. bolts right up and plugs in, completely plug and play..

if you do this only the 95' 2.2l will work cause its the only year 2.2l that had dual exhaust ports..

ccr can hook you up with one for about $1000 less than the phase 1 2.5l and the 2.2l will last and be more reliable than any phase 1 2.5l

personally i got my engine used from a friend for $250... so i got out cheap with my outback :)

i'd sau thier asking price is a bit high as well.. with the blown engine and all..

#7 the_bard


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Posted 19 July 2005 - 04:41 PM

'Round here, that price isn't too bad... kinda hard to find them period. I did find a '96 OBW with the 2.2 in it, but the tranny was shady. Kept popping out of fourth gear, and was making a rather odd grinding/grating noise. Dealer didn't want to deal, either :rolleyes:.

Anyhow, as long as the replacement engine's decent, I figure it'll be worth the $4k total (the rest of the car's in good to beautiful shape). Even if the replacement engine's trash, if it'll last long enough for me to find a good '95 EJ22, I'll take it.

Thanks, guys ;o).

P.S.: Stopped by the dealer this morning, and they stated the engine was ordered last Monday, and might be in tomorrow (Wednesday), but no guarantees. If it is, I might just be able to pick the car up at the end of the week (can't wait!)

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