Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!
|Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.
We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!
Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!
Posted 31 July 2003 - 03:31 AM
Here are the chain of events leading to the alleged incident. The names have not been changed, screw the innocent.
Wednesday - Bought 1990 Legacy 2wd from retired used car salesman whose son is a subaru mechanic (red flag ?)
Thursday - showed car off to friends and family
Friday - still congratulating self for shrewd purchase
Saturday - car would not start, towed home
- swapping parts from other 90 Legacy to try to isolate prob
- coil... not in spec according to Chiltons but works in other car - coil from dead car also works in living car
- same with ignitor module
Sunday - swapped fuel pump
- previously dead car roars to life
- congratulate self on shrewd purchase AND awesome mechanical skills
- take parents out to dinner
Monday & Tuesday - notice tach modulates between 200 and 1000 rpm at idle
Wednesday - car starts well, but dies 10 seconds later
- restart car, head off to work, car dies half way there and will not restart
- walk home, get other car and go to work
- lunchtime - dead car starts, drive it home, go back to work
- evening - previously dead car, which was temporary not dead, dead again
- poked around under the hood, had a beer
- tried fiddling with the fuel pump plug just in case, another beer
- connected black wires under dash for error codes, nothing
- another beer,
- ran out of ideas, notes that Chiltons book is severely lacking in many areas
- searched this forum for ideas
- purchased towing insurance from AAA online (desperation)
Thursday - you reading my post, providing valuable insight
Thanks in advance,
88 DL Wagon:)
90 L 2wd Wagon (garage dweller)
90 L awd Wagon (looks like hell, runs swell):cool:
Posted 31 July 2003 - 06:21 AM
So you're sure fuel pump works. Have you T'd into the line to check the pressure?
If you pull the plugs after cranking the engine for a while, are they wet?
If you rest a spark plug up against the block, does it spark when cranking?
If you get no spark, you may have a bad ECU.
Posted 31 July 2003 - 07:47 AM
It is sometimes the little clues that can point you in the right direction. Some quick swaps may be the MAF, EGR valve, throttle position sensor, cam sensor - however if you give us a little more to go off of we may have a better shot of hitting the right one.
Posted 31 July 2003 - 08:09 AM
also check basics like fuel filter ($15) & fuel pressure. it sounds like it is losing fuel when it warms...
Posted 31 July 2003 - 08:22 AM
Posted 31 July 2003 - 10:22 AM
Josh - I don't have a pressure gauge for the fuel pressure, but after cranking for a few seconds, I can smell gas. Gotta get a gauge.
I tried the spark plug on the block trick on Sunday before switching fuel pumps, and there was spark, but I couldn't tell how strong it was out in the sun. I will try again at night.
Can I switch the ECU's from my AWD to my 2wd ? I wasn't sure if they are the same.
Intrigueing - The dying problem is as though a switch is thrown, one second running well (with the exception of the rpm modulation at idle), the next second dead as a stone. When it dies, the starter will turn over all I want, very infrequently it will catch on what seems to be the first cylinder to reach the expansion cycle, the very first revolution of the motor, ~OR~ it seems just as likely to just start right up like nothings happened and run well again. I tried starting fluid and got 3 or 4 ignitions, so I thought it was a fuel problem. It doesn't seem to be related to temp. I was not in the car when it died after 10 seconds, but it started right up again after a few tries. On the way to work, I was moving at about 30 mph and it just quit. No warning, no sputter.
Theotherskip - I will get a new fuel filter tonight on the way home.
Thanks a bunch guys !!!
Posted 31 July 2003 - 01:19 PM
Do this.....try unplugging the MAF sensor completely and try starting it. It should run, but run like crud, and if it does start, you won't be able to rev above like 4000 rpm.
If this is the case, swap MAF sensors.
Posted 31 July 2003 - 03:17 PM
Dayumm, you're right about the ECU. I switched them and there was no change in either car. Dead one still dead, good running - ugly one still ugly. I do have spark, and a new fuel filter, unplugging the MAF did not work, wouldn't start. I wish I had a fuel pressure gauge. I'm going to keep trying.
Thanks again for your help,
Posted 31 July 2003 - 03:50 PM
Well we're going to assume you have fuel here since the plugs were wet. However testing the pressure would be a good idea.
Only thing else I can think of is crank/cam sensors, or timing belt is not timed right.
Last thing I can think of is cat converter is plugged up so bad it's not letting the engine breathe.
Posted 31 July 2003 - 05:12 PM
I removed the pressure regulator. Not sure how this thing is supposed to work since Chiltons sucks. Should there be free flow through the regulator under atmospheric or vacuum pressure ? I'm getting nothing either blowing or sucking through it, with vacuum applied to the diaphram or not.
The timing should be okay since it runs well sometimes, right ? Same with the cat converter ? I could have some lazy sensors, only working when they feel like it. I did a voltage check on the fuel pump harness and I'm getting 10.5 V, so I assume the pump relay is good, wherever that is ?
Speaking of Chiltons, they say the 90 Legacy does have an EGR valve, contrary to what you said earlier Josh. They even have a few pictures of the damned thing showing how to remove it, and an open hood shot with an arrow pointing to it (under the pretty plastic cover so you can't really see it). Why would they take a picture of the engine and not remove that cover ? But Josh, you were right again, there is NO EGR valve on this motor where they say it should be. I have to get a real shop manual someday.
I think I'll get a pressure reg tomorrow and try that. It doesn't look like it should cost very much.
Posted 31 July 2003 - 05:37 PM
Posted 31 July 2003 - 05:43 PM
Posted 31 July 2003 - 07:14 PM
Guest_1 Lucky Texan_*
Posted 31 July 2003 - 10:23 PM
just a wag
1 Lucky Texan
Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:26 AM
If I knew where the fuel pump relay was located... I think I have only one pump, and I checked the voltage to the harness, seemed to be okay.
1 LuckyTexan -
Anything is possible. When I switched fuel pumps on this car, I re-used the sock since my local auto parts didn't have a new one on hand. The sock looked clean enough though.
Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:47 AM
Posted 01 August 2003 - 06:13 AM
1) Crank sensor
2) Cam sensors
3) IAC Idle air control
4) Throttle position sensor (check voltage)
Usually a plugged cat will cause engine to slowly die and is usually like your car is pulling a progressively heavier trailer, until it stops. And usually giving it gas will make it bog down worse.
Fuel filter / may be possible I suppose. If both coils are out of speck - maybe try another. Keep us posted!
Posted 01 August 2003 - 07:47 AM
Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:24 AM
I rigged up a fuel pressure tester using my cylinder compression tester, some fittings and some 6 minute epoxy. NO PRESSURE ! So I took the fuel pump back out and found that the insulation on the ground wire was frayed. Of course, everything checked out fine with the meter after the pump was out of the tank, but the pump was not running before I took it out. I replaced the ground wire and also noticed that I forgot to put the hose clamps back on inside the tank when I was testing the pump, could have been part of the problem ? Anyways, it's running at the moment but I'm not going to celebrate just yet.
Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:26 AM
Guest_1 Lucky Texan_*
Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:32 AM
thanx for letting us know how its going, might help someone else someday.
1 Lucky Texan
Posted 01 August 2003 - 07:05 PM
Did exactly what you describe...I could reach it under the alternator, and unplug it and plug it back in when it'd quit, and it'd start right back up.
Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:49 AM
My condolences for your loss, I hope no one was hurt.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users