vamos
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Posts posted by vamos
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Call Mulder and Sculley. Looks like an x-file to me.
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I noticed a gurgle on start for a long time after servicing my 96 lego several times for various coolant reasons.... but I wrote it off drove around and after a few oil changes had passed it seems to have gone away. have you tried driving the car a long distance? how about using a vacuum device to suck coolant into the engine, last time my coolant was changed we used such a device. not sure if this helped but as long as your air pocket is not causing overheating just drive it.
Thanks for joining in with your suggestions but I no longer have an air pocket in the heater core or anywhere else .. the gurgle is gone (read my update a few posts back).
I did actually read of the vacuum method to suck the coolant into the block, also had what I thought was a good idea of taking the radiator bleed plug out then attaching a pressure tester to the radiator fill point and forcing the air out along with a lot of coolant but never got around to this.
I actually gave up and was learning to live with the sound until my mechanic told me to just reverse the heater hoses where they go into the block. Did this and it worked.
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Did you swap the hoses back after burping, I guess not? I wonder what is the theory behind this swap. I'm assuming your heater hoses were properly connected to the heater core before the swap.
No, haven't put the hoses back and they were properly connected before the swap. Temp gauge is fine and blowing great heat. Not sure about the theory but reversing the flow into the core certainly fixed the problem for me. Thanks for asking.
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PHEW! Good news about the head gasket. Hmmm ... maybe I'll give this another shot when the wife's gone to visit her mother.
OK, so here's an update. A few days ago, I take the car in to have the timing belt done, plugs, leads and fuel filter. So that gets done and on picking up the car I make a casual remark about the water gurgle about how I have been having a hell of a time trying to burp the air out of the heater core.
He says "oh yeah, I did hear that when I took it for a drive, you know what you should do ... swap the two hoses around where they connect to the engine and then have another go at burping it again."
I thought can't hurt to try, so next day when the ball and chain goes to visit her sister, I'm out there like a flash spill free funnel and screwdriver in hand. Unscrew the clamps on both hoses and swap them over. Was quick to do and I didn't lose much coolant. Spill free funnel on, coolant in, start car and wait for t.stat to open. All went well and the result ....GURGLE GONE. I'm beating my chest and swinging through the trees again. Happy Ending.
P.S. The mechanic mentioned that he tried this method on other cars and it worked so it isn't a subaru specific fix. Hope this helps others.
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Update:
Have the car back from the shop, new plugs, leads, fuel filter and timing belt done. Code was found which indicated the MAF sensor faulty. However, still unsure about this as I expect it would have thrown a code since I did unplug the MAF and run the engine. I realized later after picking up the car I should have mentioned this to the mechanic .. I forgot.
Engine hasn't died since but there has been the odd moment of hesitation from the engine whilst driving. Looks as though I will be replacing the MAF sensor. Mechanic is looking around and will price a used one for me. Not too sure about that.
As for the battery, had it checked out and it didn't have enough crank power left in it to turn the starter over so replaced it. Alternator checked out OK.
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I had something similar happen on my 92 Legacy. Ended up being the plug wires. It was arcing around the boot directly from the coil to the base of the coil and somehow causing the computer to reset when it arced, thus causing the car to stumble at high speeds or die at low speeds. Probably not your issue but throwing it out there anyway.
Thanks. :)All information on this has been very helpful. Will be changing the plugs, leads and fuel filter when the items arrive.
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You can unplug the MAF and it will stall, but once restarted it will run or at least should run in a safe mode that will allow the car to be driven, though it may be rough and stumble, it will still run.
You can do this as a test, if the engine runs without stalling for an extended period of time, then you can safely blame the MAF for the stalling problem.
I did unplug the MAF as you suggested and whilst the engine idled OK as soon as I increased the revs the engine would nearly stall so did not bother to even try to drive it any distance. By the way the engine did die this time on a short drive and also lost power a couple of times but came back up before stalling.
Another annoying problem has developed the last two mornings. Have to jump start the car, Turns over but battery goes dead after a few seconds. Funny thing is the multimeter shows the battery to have a full charge prior to turning the key. I'll get that checked out too.
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I'll elaborate a bit more on my suggestion. Should have before but I was having a hard time sitting still.
I had the exact same behavior from my 96 when I bought it. I was blessed with a Check Engine Light, being an OBDii car the diagnostics are a bit more sensitive when intermittent problems arise.
I've also read of at least one other instance where intermittent stalling was caused by a bad MAF. The problem comes from broken solder connections where the pins connect to the PCB inside the housing. Most of the time the broken connection is still touching, but every now and then because of movement or vibration a small gap opens and cuts power or signal to the sensor. The ECU loses the signal from the MAF for a split second and flips out. When it loses the MAF signal it kills the engine.
You can unplug the MAF and it will stall, but once restarted it will run or at least should run in a safe mode that will allow the car to be driven, though it may be rough and stumble, it will still run.
You can do this as a test, if the engine runs without stalling for an extended period of time, then you can safely blame the MAF for the stalling problem.
Absolutely awesome information. Thanks
Although from what you describe, you would think the problem would occur even on my short drives around town (10-12 miles at a time) which it never has. It's only been happening after a long drive and then getting caught up in traffic. I'll see if the mechanic can pick up a code when I give him the car next week.
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MAF sensor.
Thanks for replying.
Interestingly, I found this when searching the net for this same problem and look what came up:-
We own a 1994 Subaru Legacy 250T station wagon. Over the past few weeks while driving along the engine cuts out. All the lights on the dashboard come on, and the power light flashes. You can then put the car in neutral or park and turn the engine on and it restarts without any problems. We have taken the car to our local mechanic and he ran the computer diagnostic on the car, but of course while the mechanic had the car the problem did not occur and he could not find any problems with the car.***
We have checked all the connections to the battery and any other electrical connections but cannot find anything loose. Have you any idea what may be causing this problem?
Reply
Hi, we contacted the Anything Electronic Co. and they advised that the problem could be a fault with the Airflow Meter. We took the car to the Subaru dealer and they put it on the analyser and it did report a possible problem with the airflow meter. We replaced the Airflow meter with a new part and have not had any problems since.
So you may be right about the MAF sensor. Before I replace it, I have booked the car in to get a timing belt change done and will ask the mechanic to offer his advice and check it out. I also have new plugs, leads and fuel filter on the way from Amazon.
Thanks again for your help.
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Crank and cam position sensors only throw codes for faults while the car is running. Stalling do to a sensor failure wont throw a code as the car needs to be running. If the sensor misbehaves then it will throw one.
These things are tough.
Lest start with basics. Clean the battery terminals, make sure they are tight, and give the car a tuneup. That would goive us a good baseline to start.
Thanks Nipper.
I have ordered a fuel filter, iridium plugs and leads from Amazon. Also because I have only had the car a few weeks and unsure when the timing belt was last done, I have booked it in. Getting the full treatment, belt, pumps, seals and idlers. Will be asking the mechanic to give his thoughts on my problem and check a few things.
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It could also be a sticky idle air control valve. Does it only stall when you have your foot off the throttle, or does it die when you're still giving it gas?
If it only dies when you have your foot off the throttle then the IAC is the most likely issue. It has to let air in to keep the engine running after the throttle has closed and if it's gunked up it can stick and not work.
Thanks for your reply. The engine has died whilst idling at traffic lights and also while I'm speeding up. Engine only dies while travelling at low speeds.
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Still waiting to receive new plugs, fuel filter and plug leads from Amazon ( i live in Australia).
Meanwhile the engine cutting out just happened again. After a long drive I stopped for a few minutes to pick up a few groceries before heading home. Got in the car and within 30 seconds engine died, put the car in neutral whilst still moving and it started right up. A couple of miles later the engine nearly stalled and perked up but died later as I entered my driveway. I did have plenty of fuel in the tank.
This problem only seems to occur after a long drive. I have checked my sensor connections but will wait and see what happens after I put in new plugs, etc.
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i had this problem just a couple days ago. you have to fill the radiator with the car NOT running it will take close to an hour for it to fill completly just keep adding coolant as it goes down take a look at my thread of problem (weird overheating problem) if you read the whole thing it will tell you how to fill the system with out air bubbles. you'r overheating problem was caused by an air bubble it shouldn't have affected you'r head gasket.
PHEW! Good news about the head gasket. Hmmm ... maybe I'll give this another shot when the wife's gone to visit her mother.
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i saw no mention of the vent bleeder plug. did you remove it during the filling process? this is important.
Thanks John.
No, I didn't because an earlier post did not mention this when they stated "THE RIGHT WAY" method!! I have however on previous attempts taken the bleed plug out and filled the radiator through it. Also, with using a spill free funnel. I have let the car run up to an hour venting out as much air as a could.
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Well, I hate to chime in with the wife, but...
REally, you didn't mention why you were doing the cooling refill to begin with? Had you worked on the cooling system? Replaced thermostat?
Cooling refill was done in an attempt to bleed the trapped air in the heater core. This is the first car I've had where I've heard this and after reading up on how other s have tackled it I thought it was a fairly simple fix.
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Did you ever do it the proper way yet?
drain radiator with cap off cold (just to have a starting point)
Start car
SLOWLY refill radiator
When filled wait for t-stat to open. There will be a surge of fluid then everything settles down.
Keep filling system.
Replace cap, top off overflow.
Drive around block.
OK, had a go at doing it the proper way. here's what happened.....
Drained radiator with cap off .... check
Started car.....check
Very slowly filled radiator .... check
Waited for t-stat to open ....Did not happen
What did happen is my fans came on and stayed on. The t-stat didn't open and the temperature started to go beyond the normal range so put the radiator cap on and went for a very short drive hoping this would open the t-stat. Temperature gauge went to the very top and no heat from the heater. Got back (only travelled a half mile). The water in the radiator was boiling and I started to hope I have'nt done any permanent head gasket damage.
The other times I tried to bleed the air by putting the nose up on ramps, spill funnel, holding the revs up, etc The t-stat did open but never shifted any air from the heater core. This time by draining the radiator, the t-stat didn't open and gave me a scare when the temp gauge went ballistic and only cold air from the heater.
So I left the car for 8-9 hours to get cold. Checked the coolant level and took the car for a drive. A short drive at first and when the temp gauge stayed at normal and the heater was blowing hot air I went for a longer drive (30 miles) really giving it a bit of a push. All was OK.. temp gauge just under half way, blowing good heat but the gurgling water from under the dash was still there. If anything sounded louder than before.
After the drive, I checked the radiator cap and it was cool to the touch, the bottom radiator hose was cold although both top and bottom hoses felt like there was good pressure in them.
I've had enough of a scare to give up on this for the time being. It's only noise and as the car is running OK who am i to keep poking at it. Since I have only had the car a month, I will soon be taking it to a Suby mechanic to have the timing belt changed along with the other bits and pieces and I will leave it to him to clear the air from the core.
Interestingly, I met another Suby owner at the gas station and his Outback had the same gurgling noise. Perhaps it's just a quirk that some Subys' get an unmoveable air-lock in the heater core.
Thanks everyone for your help. Beaten by a car, for what should be a simple fix. But what really irks me was my wife's last word on my attempt to fix this when she said "Just let the mechanic do it"... My manly gonads aren't swinging as they should be.. somehow I must redeem myself.
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Did you ever do it the proper way yet?
drain radiator with cap off cold (just to have a starting point)
Start car
SLOWLY refill radiator
When filled wait for t-stat to open. There will be a surge of fluid then everything settles down.
Keep filling system.
Replace cap, top off overflow.
Drive around block.
Allow to cool, repeat once if needed (not the draining the rad part).
More then once then air is getting in someplace.
This subaru doesnt have a heater valve so skipping it open to hot isnt a huge error.
Thanks. Haven't tried this. Will give it a shot later and post my result. I'll do it with the front of the car on ramps unless you think I don't need to.
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i have even herad of some engines over heating when the heater core is clogged. and then a back flush of the core fixing the problem, i think.
Thanks for the input. I have back flushed the core. No gunk and good flow both ways. Engine temperature is not a problem ... needle always just below half way point.
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Heat turned on full hot??
if the heat is not set to full hot, then no, you wont get the air bubbles out of the heater core - Must set the heat to full hot setting so that the coolant can flow thru the heater core. it isnt necessary to run the fan, but the temp setting must be all the way to hot.
repeat the above procedure with heat setting on hot, and run for several minutes after reaching operating temperature.
trying to pressurize a cold system probably wont work because of the closed thermostat...and could in fact cause more problems than it solves...
Hi thanks for the reply. Yes, the heater is set to hot. I have watched a few You Tube videos on this and read up a bit on this so feel I am doing everything right. Perhaps pressurizing a hot system after the thermostat opens may work.
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I know this is a well worn theme but I'm having no luck shifting the air out of the heater core in my 96 Legacy EJ22.
Tried up on ramps, running the motor till the fans come on and thermostat opens, spill free funnel used. Reverse flushed the heater core plus coolant flush. Have pressure tested the system, all ok. Heater has great heat, not losing coolant. Still can't move the air.
Here's what I'm thinking. Car up on ramps again. If a pressure tester is attached to the radiator neck and with the bleed plug off and the overflow hose crimped, would pressure once applied get to the heater core and displace the air or will the pressure be stopped by the closed thermostat (doing this on a cold engine)?
Got to be a surefire way to move this annoying air and stop the very audible water noise. It's there all the time when driving.
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Hi,
I drive a 1996 legacy with 100,000 miles on the clock, EJ22 motor with auto transmission. Car was recently purchased from a dealer.
Only had the car a week and whilst driving in traffic about 15-20 mph the engine just died and all instrument lights came on. Pulled the car over turned off ignition and turned the key and it started straight up again. Since there was a Suby dealer only a few miles away I drove over there and they checked the car but there were no fault codes. I was told the only way it would leave a code is if the engine died again and wouldn't start. Then I would need it towed to the shop. I drove home 60 miles without it happening again.
Two weeks later same thing happened 3 times within 3-4 minutes. Each time just put it in neutral and restarted the car no problem. Again I was driving at a low speed in traffic.
So did some research and thought maybe a dirty air flow sensor so cleaned the sensor with the CRC MAF spray and put in a new air cleaner.
Engine has not died since (about a week ago) but yesterday driving on the freeway around 60 mph the engine started to die or miss as though it was starved of fuel for a couple of seconds. It hiccuped like this 2 or 3 times then was ok and I drove the 70 miles home without it happening again.
Has anyone comes across this same problem or have any ideas where I should look next? Don't really want to replace good sensors if they don't need it. Thanks.
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Thanks everyone for your advice. Had a pressure test done on the radiator and all was ok there. Turns out the radiator cap was faulty so just needed to replace it and the system is now holding pressure.
Mechanic told me the best way to check a radiator cap is to throw it in the bin.
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Have been having another look around the radiator and have noticed that while the top hose is hot the bottom hose is only just warm and feels only partly filled when I squeeze it.
Would the problem then either be the thermostat (although not overheating) or the water pump?
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Thanks GD for the advice. I'll take the car to a shop to have a pressure test done.
I haven't noticed any leaks and the coolant level is OK. As for the radiator it looks new. I recently bought the car and don't know the service history on it.
Perhaps because it isn't holding pressure is why I have the air pockets making the rushing water sound under the dash.
If you don't mind, would you know the correct procedure to bleed the air out of the cooling system. Is it better to leave the radiator cap on and remove the air vent plug only then start the car and let run? I have tried putting the car front end up on an incline and removing the radiator cap and running the engine until the fans come on but I still hear the noise under the dash whilst driving.
Thanks again.
Intermittent Engine problem on EJ22 Legacy
in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
Posted
Update
It was the Mass Airflow Sensor. I believe you hit the nail on the head Fairtax4me about it being broken solder connections inside the housing. Never did give me a fault code though.
Picked up a MAF off Ebay for $17 ( out of curiosity I asked a suby dealer how much ... $823!!! ). No problems since I replaced it.
Thanks to everyone who contributed