curls1

Hi Gary, I think he used the 2.2 ignition components. They didn't force fit anything. I have to ask him what he did. He said rather than switch the ends of the wires so they'd fit, he switched the whole harness or switch over. Tires are the same as before, bought together, wearing fine. A couple go a few pounds low regularly, but I know so I keep them up. Interesting on the towing... I'm sure the Subaru shop knew, but the other took it all of 1 block, but may not have known. Any chance I can ignore changing the trans fluid for a while without causing more damage? Shop didn't mention needing a change for that (& I think said trans fluid looked okay). That's great that the engine will likely be solid and last. Love cars that can keep going and going...

Rooster2 I notice the less HP, but you're right - it also seems smoother when running, which feels good. Cool that our cars had the same operation .

Ivan Imports The mechanic said something about moving over the ignition (something), because otherwise the ignition wires on the 2.5 wouldn't fit on the 2.2. So this way if I ever need to change wires, I can. Apparently every engine and year, Subaru changed the wire tips.

Hi!! I posted an update to another thread on this forum. So I'll post a link to it, rather than repeat it here. Thanks you to everyone!! http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/144005-anyone-want-to-install-a-22-in-a-98-or-know-a-shop-who-will/page-2

Hi Everyone!! I have a working car again! As an AWD Subaru, it got it's first test yesterday -- I didn't feel like shoving that nearly bumper high snow pile, and sure enough the car backed right over flattening tire tracks through it. So Broadway Auto put the '95 2.2 I found at Salvage Auto in Raitain delivered for $395, 98k miles on it -- into my '98 limited outback that came with a 2.5D. The exhaust matched, & both have EGR. They switched over a couple things. It drives. I miss the 2.5 power not often but a few times, mostly when taking off or merging. I'm used to it, but once I'm used to this, I probably won't notice the difference. It hadn't gone through it's whole check engine cycle by the time they finished, but I drove home 4 hours with no check engine light, so it's probably just fine. Cost was more than I'd hoped by a little bit. $1200 total mechanic. Probably $2500 with everything included. -----------------Costs follow Cost details: $750 for labor. $50 to two from Patrick's Auto. $210 in parts to fix it up. Tax $78. They added a job without checking with me first, that they deemed necessary (and probably was) and did it at similar rates to my regular mechanic. So $68 labor & $20 parts to weld a bit of exhaust pipe & weld on heat shield so they'd stop rattling. Plus $13 for a limited slip additive to help loosen up tight at low speed steering, that they said was a Subaru fix for this bearing in transmission problem common on these years. I wasn't having a problem, & it's now a bit off... but maybe I hadn't noticed before. The parts fixed on the engine before install were: PCV cover plate. Timing belt. Front seal. Intake & exhaust & another gasket. Hose clamps. Oil filter & oil. Drain plug seal. Wire connectors. Coolant 1.5 gal. Radiator plug. They also replaced the thermostat saying it was old. My original was working fine but they didn't switch it over. Only $22 though. I would have preferred the water pump, since thermostat later is a low cost job. Said cam seals were fine. I was hoping by not doing value cover gasket (which is leaking slightly on this 2.2), and water pump (no seepage), it'd save labor on the $750. I was under the impression it would. ---------Costs Still I believe they very much did the job in good faith & decent quality. Did a switch over that many places wouldn't know how to. Knew how to do all the parts that other places would have guessed at (he told me, but I don't remember what they were). Didn't overcharge, including on the exhaust job. Put up with the frustrations with Patrick's. The owner Jim, gave me ride to rental car place. He communicated clearly, and obviously enjoys talking about the various aspects of Subarus and car repairs and has a long history of working with them. (He told me stuff I would never have guessed about Subarus.) I would definitely take my Subaru or other car to Broadway, if I lived near there. If I have a hard to solve problem in the future, I may just schedule a repair stop... along the way of my trip through to NY. He said he used to be a member of BBB, so I suggested he check with them on why they don't come up in a BBB search. The car smells chemically, but I assume that's stuff they used to repair it, and it will air out pretty quickly. So I can't thank everyone here enough for all the help!!! There is no way I would have known any of this on my own, or by calling around to shops. :D It was all very pricey. $1200 + $400 engine + $800 in incidentals (rental car, snow plowing where I wound up, car storage, etc.). But the car only had 121k, & it's a nice car. Now it's a running car! It does need brake work. But that's another topic. (And the back ones of squeaked & groaned for years, and no one's ever figured out what's wrong with them.) I haven't checked new gas mileage yet. Seems good so far. There was oil underneath that'd curled up onto the bumper according to Broadway. I need to bring it for an under carriage cleaning. It was probably that separator plate, had cracked badly during my trip, according to Jim. it's very possible, if it'd brought it in for repair before my trip, it would have been caught and seemed like an expensive repair to drop the engine, but a lot less than this mess! =====Costs Costs on incidentals (me venting): Car rental wound up being $485 after they discounted. But also after they added $95 in some NJ security fee that was on the form but they'd they pretended was something else when I got the car that I wouldn't be paying. So the discounts took about $45 of that off. In the end with Patrick's: Patrick's added another $30 to the storage fees from the $150 he was asking for. It broken down on a Thursday. They got it into their shop on Friday & announced it dead. After a day or so, said no 2.5's were to be found, and they wouldn't put in a 2.2. So by the following Thursday I had lined up an engine & other repair shop, Broadway. On Friday they didn't answer their phone. On monday it snowed & he threated to bury it, making it impossible for Broadway to know the situation & get it on Tues. It snowed on Wed. On Thursday Broadway got it. So, while they have a sign up of $30/day for storage, I'd asked up front what they'd charge and got a hand wave (not to worry). I don't think it's fair to ask $180 for "storage" when i was obviously trying to get the car out of there -- it was snowing -- and they were threatening burying it & not answering their phone. ...and did buy the right engine for the car, and just didn't tell me about it. Somehow, this was about taking advantage of my situation, not actual costs or value to them that the car was sitting on their lot (that had plenty of room when I saw it). ====Costs So that's the saga. What a great group of people here -- and you've all been so incredibly helpful. I especially want to thank Grossgary (who talked to me on the phone, particularly when I was having trouble finding an engine while calling around) and Nick who lives where I got stuck for suggesting Broadway. And mostly again, all the encouragement was so helpful in the middle of this mess for me. It was emotionally hard to deal with, and very chaotic. So it made a big difference!! Thank you!! Well, now that I have a working Subaru -- and found these forums -- I'll be around . Hope everyone has been able to stay safe and warm through all these endless snow storms!!

Thanks Nickb21!! It would have been great if you could have done the work, made some money. But timing just doesn't seem to be lining up on this job! I'll let you know if there's something. For right now, you're mentioning Broadway was great!!! Hope you're staying safe in all these storms! --- Current saga: Well, didn't make it before Wed's storm. The mechanic's tow equip wasn't working, and he didn't have a spare guy to get it started. So he was going to drive by at end of day to see the car's location & snow, and tow it on Thursday. Then the drama began. I'd deal with a very nice, laid back Robert at Patrick's. Someone who I think was named Jim, and is probably Mr. Patrick, called furious & yelling and going to charge more. He threatened that if the other shop didn't come, he'd bury the car so deep in snow, it'd take them 2 days to dig it out. Then when they called, he wouldn't tell them how much snow it was under. Both shops were open Wed, but I didn't talk to either, and Broadway wasn't going out towing in the ice. So Thursday, Patrick's called again yelling and threatening. This time he was going to put the car on the road and call the state police to take it. He KNEW the other shop was coming that day. So what was his point? In the end I talked him down by saying "I need the car over there too. I need it fixed so I can go home." All very true. My point being, that I'd be cautious with Patrick's if this is the manager or owner. I don't think he's mean, and he did back down (no idea what he's charged my charge card compared to what we originally said... since the car's been there longer due to snow.) But yikes. I said he could have towed it over there, and made money from me... but he said he only tows his customers for free and I'm not a customer. The other guy Robert, was the nicest and very sane. I'm thinking, someone there mumbled something the day before that they bought two 2.5 engines, one for $1500 from Florida. Yet, they never mentioned it to me officially. Never offered to fix my car. I wondered if they weren't hoping to pay me $300 salvage, then turn a profit. I wouldn't begrudge that if I didn't want the car. But please wait till the funeral! So maybe he's just mad that he's stuck with 2.5 engines and I'm keeping the car. The other problem was that I'd called with my charge info, but Mr. Patrick insisted my other mechanic pay him, instead of me, which he explained was so I couldn't do a charge back. I refused. Goodness knows what he'd charge the other mechanic that I'd be stuck with. You don't want a charge back, then you be clear and negotiation your prices to begin with. And if his charges are within reason, I'm not going to object, even though there wasn't a pre-agreement. I'm just venting, but also in case someone comes by wondering about them... this is worth knowing. --- Broadway's has my car's engine out. There was oil all down it, and curled up onto the bumper. He said that's the airflow pattern on a wagon with a bad, bad leak. He's replaced the timing belt and a crank seal or something, and will do that plate that has about 23 names. He'll know more on Monday. Job done then or first thing Tuesday. Oh & meanwhile I got a flu with a high fever, so I haven't been online ... or updating. Now I can see straight again!

Wavekayaker - I found a 95 2.2 with 100k and shop to do it. Now it's finger crossing that they have success, and with all the snow, it gets done. Thanks for the reassurance. Once I knew this from you all online, it was easier to find a shop to do the job.

Heartless - that's cool. If it was a spare car, with space to work on it... that'd be different. But for now, I need transportation that isn't a rental! Apparently the mechanic was closed today with the snow. The other mechanic with the car was open, and upset that the car is still there. Hopefully tomorrow it will all start moving forward before Wed's storm, and it will work in the end!

Bummer!! Ivans - they're charging me 9 hours, so $750 labot if everything needs to be swapped. Less if some stuff is already intact, like timing belt. Plus parts. Heartless - that's cool. With my lack of experience, and no place... and no one to show me how to get the leverage right if I hit a snag, I'm definitely happier having a shop do it. But I've enjoyed working on my cars... and hearing a pin drop at the table when I start babbling about interference vs. non-interference engines I like fixing things around the house, and cars are included!! What other jobs have you done?

Upnorthguy I've talked with them about it, and they said they'll be putting in the metal plate... unless it's already been done. $47 part was their quote. .. as you've said, it's critical on this engine!

Nickb21 - Many phone calls off car-parts.com. Turned out I was looking up my car, but car-part doesn't cross reference all years that fit your car on a particular part (why not?), so if you look up other years and models you know work, you can see other available engines. Since this was a rural area, I stuck with closer distances to get delivery since shipping was around $250. Wasn't easy with my phone & internet cutting out every few seconds, jeepers. It's working now again. Rooster - I think this shop will know that since they've done the job before. Good point to keep in mind to mention to them, and for any future readers here. I've added up the costs with all the pieces that keep getting tacked on, and it's getting tight on value. It's $1930 when you add towing to mechanic ($50), storage at first mechanic ($150), tax ($60-100), motor ($400), bits & pieces ($330), labor ($750), car rental another week ($150). The car needs brakes, so it's not worth much more than that (low $2000s, I'm thinking). Then there's risk with a used motor, and the shop running into trouble. Sigh... Hoping this all goes smoothly.

I finally found a 2.2 for $400 today that's deliverable to the area the car is in. It's more rural, so that's probably why it was harder to find. The engine was running, but wasn't compression tested or leak checked. 30 days war. I found others but not that I could get to the car. If I lived in the area and was willing to take an 2 hour round trip, I could have picked one up myself. I hope the shop can keep the price down. It's $750 labor. And up to around $330 in misc parts to fix up the engine before installing. They'll check and if it needs do: Water pump, Timing belt, Cam seals, Front crank seal, PCV Cover plate, Valve cover gasket kit, Exhaust gaskets, Center pipe gskt., Coolant, Oil and filter, Nuts, bolts - maybe 10. Plus tax. They're adding that it's $750 if it doesn't run into problems. Gary - your suggestions worked well. Calling and asking for 95s as though that's my car, made it easier to get a '95 engine, which is the best fit to replace my '98 2.5D. Also I hadn't realized that car-parts did it largely by year not part's year's range. So if you want for a '98 and you know '95-99 fit, you have to look up each year to see all the engines out there, plus look up other models like Impreza that have the same engine. I'm going to car shop tomorrow, just in case this all doesn't go smoothly, but fingers crossed. Then I can shop more leisurely.

Nickb21 - Broadway Auto in Broadway is fantastic. They've done the 2.2 swap for the 2.5D. Wouldn't put in a 2.5D without replacing the head gaskets. Had all the details Garygross and everyone else has been describing. They keep dual exhausts around for these swaps, & automatically replace all the seals & so on. Explain things well. Price $700-800 labor plus $150-200 for parts & fluids. Will call for engine prices, & know which places are reputable. They can go get the car. So I'll use them, unless they / we decide it's not a good idea to do the job (no good engines out there, total price vs car value doesn't make any sense.) Plus his explanation of why it'd lose so much oil, didn't leave me feeling guilty that I didn't top off at that last gas fill. I can stop making calls -- and move on to decisions -- yay. Thank you everyone for the great information. I'd have had no way of knowing all this from calling mechanics or salvage yards.

Bushwich - excellent, excellent point. Nickb21 - interesting - matches my gut feeling so far. I don't have the motor and on another forum someone pointed out that the big price difference has to do with quality of engine pulled. The better ones are over $1000. I agree, this weather makes it much harder. An engine hoist can be rented, but no heater is big enough for this job!! Finally heard back from my dad, and his take (on his car) is "it's been a good cruise." Drive the rental car back home, and buy something and scrap the Subaru. Still if I can get an engine in, and up and running at reasonable cost.... that will buy me lots of time to shop and get what I want, save up a little more... and past this car onto someone else who will appreciate it too.

Thanks everyone! Imdew - been to Colorado Springs & enjoyed it . Imdew & Adventure -- I've done some car repairs (plugs, EGR, A/C line, sensors, throttlebody...), but I'm just not up for this . I don't even have a garage to work in, and it's 10-30 degrees out there. Plus I have trouble getting bolts lose (I come in the small female sizing). 86Bratman - i've registered. Looks like a great site. nickb21 - wow, great! That's great information. I'll call them tomorrow. They have no BBB complaints! I'll post how it goes, and see if I need any more names. Have you heard of Patrick's Auto Repair in Pattenville (exit 11 off rt 78)?

The car is in upper middle NJ, Clinton (kind of near Summerville). I'm in Mid-Hudson Valley in NY. I haven't found a mechanic willing to mess with putting a ej22 into my '98 legacy ej25d. They're all saying "but it's not the engine that comes with it." So I can uhaul the car to you. Anyone know someone who can do this, or want to do it themselves? Thanks!

Aaaah, thank you. I've generally found mechanics, and salvage yards useful... so this is new to me with them being so clueless. But yes, I'll go with the incredible number of times this has been done & commented about & your experience... over their by the book comments. You're laid out what needs to be done, and what works, very clearly. That helps a lot. I'm going to wait till my dad is finally reachable tomorrow (it's his car), & decide what to do. I may have questions then on details to get it all lined up. Now a big question. Any chance anyone here knows someone in Clinton NJ or anywhere from there to Mid-Hudson valley (Kingston) NY -- who can do this job for me? The car is in Clinton. I'm in Kingston. I can uhaul it to someone along the way. Then go back & get it when done. I have a couple mechanics in Kingston I've liked in the past for complex diagnositics and jobs well done. I need to call again specifically about doing the 2.2 swap. No one's suggested it and all talk about engines costing at least $1000. I feel like I'm in a twightzone. It's been completely weird hearing salvage yards say 2.5D, oh that's the good engine. It's obviously the troubled one after a small amount of forum reading from the beginning. I guess their trying to sell their dud, but I'm not used to so much snookering. And local mechanic saying "oh that engine usually lasts longer, huh?" Also odd that the mechanic in Clinton with years of experience doesn't seem to know they swap or much of anything about the 2.5D. Okay, so now I'm close to good to go. Just have to put the pieces together (mechanic, engine, exhaust, father's reaction then decision). One more big concern -- if the check engine light comes on, it won't pass emissions where I live. Is there any way around that? Seems like if I use one with EGR already, then it will hook in alright? Thank you, thank you....Grossgary, and MilesFox...!!

Sorry, hi nipper, not ripper! I just talked with the manager or the Subaru dealer repair dept.. He tells me the 1998 2.5D is DOHC, but all the 2.2's are SOHC. So swapping can't be done easily because they use different harnesses, & computers and so on. Are you saying that people you've met online have switched the '98 2.5 DOHC (not the 2.5i that came later) for a 2.2. SOHCs (years 95-99)? And that it's practically plug and play if you get an automatic so it has the EGR? I've never seen anything like this, where people are doing something the major often, but the dealer and salvage yards and several mechanics I'd asked are all saying it's not possible.

Hi Ripper - thanks for sending me here! I'm going to call the dealer and ask what's exchangeable on this year's engine....

I found this engine info on another forum. It seems good: ej22 replacements in order of preference for replacing ej25d. 95 w/ EGR usually from a an auto trans car. plug and play no issues. 96 w/ EGR usually from a an auto trans car. you will need the exhaust y-pipe . 97 - 98 w/ EGR usually from a an auto trans car. you will need the exhaust y-pipe. the only difference between the 96 and the 97 is that the 96 is still a non-interference engine. 97 - 98 are not. So that would seem to answer most of my questions. Is it accurate? But then why am I getting told I can't put a ej22 into my ej25d because it's part of the '98 year model?

Thanks Rooster! Everyone I talked to today was just so adamate that I couldn't replace the 2.5 with the 2.2's. I've been searching this forum, and my basic questions are: 1) What engines will plug & play into a 98 Legacy "6" vin, 2.5? Is it possible mine has a 1/2 year special 2.5 that's not swappable, like the mechanic & salvage are saying? It's an EJ25D (in owner's manual), & 2.5L H4 PFI DOHC 16V (on carfax). 2) Any adjustments needed? The shop doesn't want to have to change harnesses, etc.. (I've seen that sometimes you need manifolds, & 2.2. must be with EGR.) 3) Are the "cam seals, cam orings (if equipped), crank seal, and rear separator plate" expensive to swap while engine is still out of car? 4) How can I judge if I'm getting an good enough engine to make the labor to install worthwhile? Thank you so much. And it'd just be so nice if I can get this repaired rather than having it cost so much, I have to salvage it. I'm dealing with injuries from something, so car shopping is just too much right now.

Okay, I'm thoroughly confused. The Justy forum also suggested using a 2.2l. Yet when I called salvage years every single one said it can't be done. One listed all sort of stuff that's not compatable such as computer, transmission including torque converter, and I lost track. Also several called the 2.5l, the "good engine." The 2.2l they seemed to think has lots of problems (oil leaks, head gasket). I must be missing something obvious here. I've never heard the terms EJ22 or EJ25 or EJ25D - I can guess 2.2l, 2.5l, D is for DOHC, which I think my car is DOHC? Mine is a 98 Legacy with a "6" in the engine vin spot. Apparently these legacy '98 engines were made for only 1/2 a year then switched to something else. So does mine have an engine that can't be swapped for the EJ22? Also this 2.5l that I found for $650 is the same as my car, but I was told they're usually over $1000. Is this a flag? For $300 more than the EJ22, I might go for it, just because it is tested and warenteed (though not for labor). ---- Non-interference sounds great... "i'd also replace the cam seals, cam orings (if equipped), crank seal, and rear separator plate with the metal variety while the engine is out." How expensive would that be when not yet installed? The parts aren't very expensive from what I saw I think. It is much labor to do this? Thanks so much for all the details. I'll call them tomorrow.

Hi! My 98 subaru died in the middle of a 6 hour trip. I posted to a justy forum & they sent me here, saying many of the legacy owners hang out here! After research and being told the replacements often run over $1000, I found several in the $600 range. Can anyone with experience, tell me if this is a flag of "too good to be true"? Off car-parts.com, I found 2.5l replacement with 102k, tested with 90 warrentee (part only, not on install labor) in Newark NJ. For $650 delivered. I can't find reviews for the place "Best Metal Used Auto Parts" but called car-parts. They said BM had been selling on their site since 2010 and they'd had no complaints about them. The mechanic that has the car will install for $800-900. I figure a few $100 more for timing belt, and miscellaneous. So $1800 all together, around. Before I go down that road, since I'd have to pay labor whether the engine is good or not -- any help would be great!! Thank you so much! ---- The death was with sudden loss of 3 1/2 quarts of oil. It'd be needing the usual 1 quart every two tanks full, and been getting worse lately. A week and half before the trip, I'd topped up. So maybe 600, and no more than 1000 miles, it lost 3 1/2 quarts. Last oil change was probably 6 months ago, so that wasn't the cause. Oil light never went on that I noticed. Car otherwise is in decent shape. Needs brakes. If I can get it done for $2000 and not have to shop right now... it's well worth it.