subpennyman
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Posts posted by subpennyman
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I bought all new parts Tuesday, installed them- and things work great- on the bench! Total cost- under $22.
I first went here http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/Nippondenso.html and found the parts that I thought I needed and called the company.
It was going to be a $29 adventure to buy from Nations, but I needed information and the call was worth it (free) he told me that I should use a heavier duty Solenoid Contact (more surface area and that I should change the Plunger too (cheap insurance).
I then went to my local yellow pages and found a supplier locally RE Autoelectric
http://www.densoheavyduty.com/results_dist.php who had the parts-after giving them the part #'s obtained from my call to nationsautoelectric, they wanted to know why I was using the #'s that I had given them- I had also given them the starter P/N. Turns out they didn't sell too many of the contacts for the starter P/N that I had given them! But I bought them anyway based on Nations advice! They fit, there is more contact surface area-and they work! They cost about 30 cents more than original replacements- but I should get more start miles out of these! I got 160,000 out of the factory originals- way more than the average life span-according to Nations.
My cost? 66-82600 Plunger assy 1 ea list $24.50 net $ 14.95
66-82758 Contact, Sol. 2 ea list $2.98 net 2.38
Tax 1.73
Total $ 21.44
You might want to try this website and find a supplier close to where you live or you can call my Tacoma RE Autoelectric- they ship all over.
http://www.densoheavyduty.com/index.php
Plan on installing the starter this Saturday. Sub.
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Would you take care of that archiving stuff? I am goint to call the company tomorrow am and see what just the 2 contacts alone would cost. I will post the results.
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edach--Thanks, that is something I had not considered! But my problem is time to go and do that! I'll think about it.... But in the meantime...............LOOK what I found! http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/Nippondenso.html for the record my starter is a Nippondenso 128000-1220.
Nippondenso starters are
used on a variety of
vehicles and equipment.
They are the largest
manufacturer of starters
and alternators in the
world. When these
starters fail it is almost
always a problem with
worn out solenoid
contacts. The common
symptom is a click- click-
click and then it will start.
Replacement units are
usually higher priced
than most because of the
superior design. Repair is
easy with the right parts
and very profitable
because of the cost of a
new or rebuilt unit. Call
Adam if you have any
questions about repair or
application.
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DaveT- so right again! Home Depot and Lowes are useless for manufacture/do it yourselfers! Thanks for the hints and link- I will explore some of those options as well as try to buy the individual Copper Contacts through an Auto Electric Supplier. There are a lot of shops that rebuild starters/alternators around here- Tacoma, WA. I do not have a lot of time to do extensive shopping. Did you chuck your bar stock up in a vise? Did you excite the electrons in the bar by applying heat- or just bend it at room temp?
(By the way- I had a drawing image that I wanted to put in this message- any clue how? I do see the image icon above and a new window opens for inserting the URL. It places the URL in the text area- but I want the image, not the URL.)
Wow- I just tried that link! Its super!!! 14.17 incl. freight for a 3" 1/8 x 3/4!
So now the price to beat is that- plus the time it takes to drill,cut and bend the raw material!
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DaveT......... EXCELLANT CALL!!!!!!! Yanked the starter today and yes the 2 Copper "L" brackets that conduct the Current through the solenoid contact ring are Very Very Worn. I am going to replace them both- but where to come up with some copper flat stock .104 thick x .636 wide x 1.1" with a 90 bend in the middle- it might even be 1.3 or 1.4 when the bend is factored in!
Any thoughts? I dont think my local Home Depot or Lowes is going to carry Copper Bar Flat stock- Maybe I should call, Huh?
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Cougar thanks for the tip on internal corrosion-don't think I would have thunk of that one! Yes-Bat terminals already cleaned! I think I will vote on the Bad contacts. Are those available through a regular auto parts store or will I have better success at a starter rebuild shop?
Anyway, codes read 11 and 34 Ugh!
88 and later models with Single-Point Fuel Injection
11Crank angle sensor or circuit
12Starter switch or circuit
13Crank angle sensor or circuit
14Fuel injector - abnormal output
21Coolant temperature or circuit
23Air flow meter or circuit
24Air control valve or circuit
31Throttle sensor or circuit
32Oxygen sensor or circuit
33Vehicle Speed Sensor or circuit
34EGR solenoid or circuit
35Purge control solenoid or circuit
42Idle switch or circuit
45Kick-down control relay or circuit
51Neutral switch continuously in the on position
55EGR temperature sensor or circuit
61Parking switch or circuit
Went to start the car on this somewhat warm fall day-OAT is mid 60's. Turned the key (with the clutch depressed) and nothing! Idiot lights were on the dash-but no starter action at all! Decided to just hold the key in the start position and press the clutch in and out till the car started.
By doing this, I found that the pedal needs to be all the way to the floor ( I think something needs adjustment) but I was able to get a click from the starter solenoid. It took about 5 cycles before I received starter motor rotation!
Unplugged the white connector and plugged in the Green- and it stayed running-wow! (before I found and reconnected the ECU connector, the car would just die)!
Sub.
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My wife said that the jerkyness that she had experienced at traffic lights was gone-and it still idled ok! So I told her to try emissions inspection again! She did-IT PASSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! And she then went and got new tabs for the Car and put those on. We are street Legal again!! That was yesterday-Friday 9/23/05! Whew!
( I had told her to make an appointment with a repair shop, too! She did so- it was going to cost $60-which would apply towards the $150 parts and labor waiver limit to be exempt from emissions. The appointment was for 2 Thursday ago-when I woke up on the appointment morning, I told her to cancel the appt. I am so glad-saved $60 atleast and feel a lot more confident.)
Today, Saturday, drove her and the 2 youngins to SEATAC Airport for a 3 week Hawaiian all expenses paid babysitting opportunity. So I put about 60 miles of freeway driving on the car-and it will be available to work on for 3 weeks. I will plug the 2 white connectors in tomorrow and read the codes as well as try the Green plugs.
Have 2 issues left. Starter will not rotate at times- just clicks when the key is turned! It happened to me this morning(getting ready to leave for the airport)! It was kind of cool out-upper 40's to 50's-I guess. Turned the key to start- just a click-like the solenoid engageing! Had to rotate the key about 20- 30 times before the starter finally spun and lit off the engine.
The other issue: wife smells raw gasoline sometimes when she comes to a stop. Says its very faint and goes away pretty quickly. It's also an intermittent thing! Gosh- I just love those intermittent faults! UGH!!!
Thanks again, you fine people!
Sub.
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It's time for some good NEws!!! When resistance from MAF connector to ECU was not the same as junk yard sample-went searching for 3 wires from MAF to ECU at the ECU! Found 1 connector partially unplugged. Properly seated connector so that it locked and rechecked resistance from MAF to ECU. Had resistance between all 3 wires pins BCD;at junk yard only had resistance between 2 pins BC.
Immediately unplugged battery for 15 minutes to clear codes-restarted and let run for 2 minutes- NO LIGHTS!!! Motor did not want to stall out- in fact it idled purrrrr-fectly- with no small hiccups either!! YES! I am going to let my wife drive it tomorrow and I will check them again in the evening.
I suspect that connector was unplugged during my Dec-Jan 04-05 nightmare with the engine!
Thanks for you faithful help here!
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My wife went, not me to the Linfield Wildcats Football game -they Won 45-7!
I and the kids did a train ride here in Tacoma on Tacomarails annual openhouse, where I learned that Tacoma's Port is bigger in containers handled than Seattle's.
Before I went on train though- went to the junk yard and ohmed out another MAF Sensor- it's resistance is the same as mine! Pins AB 2.4 Meg, AC 2.5 Meg BC 3.96K.
By the way- the schematic is not for my car! Its pins are numbered, not lettered and chassis ground is used for part of the circuit! My 1993 Loyale does not use chassis ground and has only 3 active pins! There is a provision in both the Wiring connector and the MAF Sensor for a 4th pin, but it is not installed and never has been as far as I can tell!
so now it is on to the wiring or ECU. Atleast the junk yard car has an ECU for $75 if I need it!
But now what with my 3 wire system and the above schematics showing 4 wires?
Thanks for all your help folks!
Sub.
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Thanks a whole bunch Royboy!!! (What book did you dig that out of? )I'll be able to atleast take a MAF resistance reading in the morning before my wife drives down to McMinnville, OR at 9am for our sons homecoming football game! His last year there! Their team was top dogs last year!!
I would go but I am taking our 2 children on a Train ride around the Port of Tacoma Rail Yard. Its an annual thing that Tacomarail.com puts on as part of Our Maritime Fest! The Kids are sooo excited!
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Anyone know what the resistance should be on the MAF Connector- 3 pins B,C,D A is not used.
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No voltage on any of the 3 pins and wires going to the MAF (Motor running) Connector unplugged when measurements taken.
Only 2 of the 3 pins had continuity 4K ohms.
Time to get a MAF Sensor. Anyone know what the voltage should be on the wires? Do the wires come straight from the computer, or do they come from somewhere else?
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OBD II is a standard that appeared in '96 and newer cars. There is no connector for your car.
You should check the connection also for CAS to see if that is a problem. The the canister you describe is the purge canister.
CAS stands for ? Located ?
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Ugh! Cleaning the MAF didn't help. After codes cleared, with 2 white wires connected under the hood, started car and immediately code 23 (MAF Sensor or circuit) started flashing. About 90 secs later code 35 (purge cannister) came up! Didn't take it for a drive-going to bed.
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I have an OBD II Tester(is the information to be gleaned from an OBD II any more substantial than the idiot light on the computer under the dash?) - Where is the On Board Connector located on my car? I need the exact coordinates! I am blind as a bat! Also found lots of Atmospheric Gunk on the leading edges of my MAF Sensor! Really ugly under a 30 x Microscope! Cleaned with small brushes and fine poker-didn't damage the wire wraps-looks like new, reinstalled. Battery discoonected to clear codes. 2 minutes didn't do it! Also noticed code 11 (crank Angle Sensor or circuit)is back! Uh oh! Is the Purge canister the round can at the right front of the engine compartment with 3 black hoses running to it? Thanks.
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I would see if voltage is getting to the solenoids and check the resistance of the coils to see if they are open. Be careful not break the small plastic pieces. They are very expensive to buy new.
Thanks- The earliest I could get to it is Wednesday evening - And then finding the darn things! MAF is no problem-thats on the Air inlet channel that runs over to the Air Horn on top of the throttle body. But the rest? Hmmmm........
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New Computer codes after 50 mile drive 23,34,35. Codes read with engine off.
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If you have a 5 pin connector to the MAF then pin 1 may be supply power and pin 4 ground. You should be able to ohm out the ground easily enough if that isn't correct. I like to take voltage readings of all the pins, using a known good ground point to reference to, while the system is running. You can usually tell what is what that way fairly quickly.
So you would take the backshell of the connector and do in-incircuit voltage measurements?
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Hi Royboy159-I left a message on your answer machine Sun eve.
Car was tuned up in Dec 04- I am pretty sure I changed out the Airfilter-will double check tonigh when the wife returns home with the car(unless she gets in late like 11pm-ish). I will also pull the connector on the MAF Sensor and the sensor itself and take a closer look-see! But I dont know which pins should have voltage- though I suppose if I find one with power with respect to (WRT)chassis ground, I should be able to determine which is the Ground wire/pin and take a good voltage measurement!
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Cleared codes by disconnecting battery for 10-20 minutes. Only code now showing is 23. Need to warm engine up and take it for a drive- more infor later tongiht!
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It appears you have a 93 Loyale going from your previus posts. Here is a list of codes. You may want to disconnect the battery for a while to see if the codes reappear.
88 and later models with Single-Point Fuel Injection
11Crank angle sensor or circuit
12Starter switch or circuit
13Crank angle sensor or circuit
14Fuel injector - abnormal output
21Coolant temperature or circuit
23Air flow meter or circuit
24Air control valve or circuit
31Throttle sensor or circuit
32Oxygen sensor or circuit
33Vehicle Speed Sensor or circuit
34EGR solenoid or circuit
35Purge control solenoid or circuit
42Idle switch or circuit
45Kick-down control relay or circuit
51Neutral switch continuously in the on position
55EGR temperature sensor or circuit
61Parking switch or circuit
I have the interpretation schedule for all the codes except 34- which I now have! But which one of these are the most likely to be the cause of my Idle Fail and what is the best way to troubleshoot it? Also please remember that when the car is at idle, every now and then, there is a slight miss in the firing( it could be no fuel to 1 cylinder-but I don't think so-happens to fast/and too short in duration). Or is just flat out replacement the safest option. When I connect up the 2 green wires under the hood, the engine will not stay running. I had the 2 whites connected when I read the fail codes. I'll disconnect the Battery in the am (Pacific Time) and then take another set of readings. Thanks for everyones help- I appreciate it!
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It would help to know things like, year, model, engine, fuel system, and if it's normaly asperated or forced induction. Also it would help to know what the test readings were.
1993 Loyale 4 door wagon Fuel Injection. It has a MAP Airflow sensor and the Only Tests that it failed was the IDLE Test for both CO2 and HC No numbers were given- Just the words FAILED- it passed all other tests.
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Emissions Idle failure! What to change or do? have 5 engine codes 11,13,23,34,35-engine also has slight hiccup in idle, intermittently.
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The car runs pretty darn good with neither white or green connectors connected. Definitely driveable- I took it to the gas station and put some in, and drove back home.
I will unplug the MAF Sensor next opportunity I have and see what happens with the green connectors- It may be a day or two.
Thanks for your help guys!
Emissions Idle Failure-Help
in Old Gen.: 80's GL/DL/XT/Loyales...
Posted
EGR Solenoid Fault code follow up: replaced defective Solenoid Valve (open coil) . Verified EGR Valve Operation by sucking on hose connected to Valve and heard valve operate- and that no leaks existed. Also verified hose integrity from Solenoid Valve to Fuel Injector Body Throat and open passage to throat.
It appears there isn't any vaccuum getting to the solenoid valve from the Throat of the Injector Body. Everything else appears to be good- don't know where to go from here.
Also, new problem surfaced- windshield wiper motor only works at 1 speed - slow. 2 wires entering motor proper each have12vdc (w/respect to Gnd) in normal switch setting as well as high. Ground wires appears intact.
Sub 10/30/05