Fuji
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Posts posted by Fuji
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On 3/1/2022 at 2:12 PM, idosubaru said:
Best to check when cold. Throw 5 quarts of oil all over your kitchen walls. How long would it take for all 5 quarts to get to the floor? It would take some time, it’s not water. The heat of the engine aids settling but it still takes time.
It might help to pull the dipstick, wipe it off, then reinsert it and check level.1/2 quart too much isn’t a big deal. If it’s leaking anyway it’ll be back down to normal in time.
I literally cannot catch a break. The Tribeca nearly overheated today. I pulled over and the radiator was literally basically empty, what was weird is that the radiator cap was not hot. I got a towel and removed it, had water in the back and started filling it up. It seemed to be leaking were the bottom drain valve is. I let it cool and hobbled home not allowing it to get hot. Doesn't seem to be leaking from any hoses. Seems to literally pour from that same spot, water running along the bottom frame or leaking from around the drain valve. I just think it is weird that this happened about 10 days after my mechanic removed it to do the timing chain reseal. I cannot tell but wonder if they put it back in without the grommets it is suppose to rest upon. I cannot tell if that is the case. The timing just seems weird. I don't have a pump to pressurize the radiator and check to see where it is leaking from but can order one on amazon for about $65 bucks but it is leaking badly. Luckily, I can replace the radiator if I need to- not a hard job. Been a difficult month for sure, lol.
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13 hours ago, heartless said:
I am on my 5th "older" Subaru in about 22 yrs... and the FIRST thing that gets done with them when I purchase is a full timing job.. regardless of history.
you may have proof the belt was done, but, were the pulleys replaced? how about the water pump? seals? those are often not touched, and on the 2.5s the cogged idler pulley is usually the one to go first from bearing failure. when that happens, you end up with major damage costing a couple thousand to fix.the only way to know it is done, and done right, is to do it yourself - either you personally, or a good shop you trust. dont rely on anything else.
my list spans from a 1989 GL wagon (that i paid $150 for and drove for 8 yrs, thanks to this forum) to my current, a 2004 Forester... all were purchased used, and mostly with no real maintenance history. All had somewhere between 155k and 214k on the odometer. A bit of preventive maintenance to start out with prevents a whole lot of headaches down the line.
Did the 2004, 2005 Foresters have any head gasket issues?
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18 hours ago, idosubaru said:
Best to check when cold. Throw 5 quarts of oil all over your kitchen walls. How long would it take for all 5 quarts to get to the floor? It would take some time, it’s not water. The heat of the engine aids settling but it still takes time.
It might help to pull the dipstick, wipe it off, then reinsert it and check level.1/2 quart too much isn’t a big deal. If it’s leaking anyway it’ll be back down to normal in time.
Hey, at least it is leaking considerably less! I actually am thinking about purchasing an even older Subaru- but need to do a lot of research. I need something solid but with better mileage. I hear good things about 2005 Foresters with the 2.5 4 liter engines. Again, a lot of research to do but the price is doable for a semi-retired old guy like me. I would only purchase an older car that is Carfaxed, never been in a wreck and shows service records especially showing the timing belt replace at around 125K. They are out there.
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19 hours ago, idosubaru said:
Take it back to them. Give them a chance to follow through and see what they say.
Have you looked at it yet to see if it's in the same area or you'd just basing this off of drops you see on the ground?
They either:
1. made mistake - which is possible if it "didn't seem to leak at first", in which case they fixed the leak but introduced a new one somewhere else. This would be about the most difficult Subaru sealing job there is - so it wouldn't be a wild surprise for a mistake.or
2. resealed the front cover, which wasn't the cause of the leak in the first place. In which case the rear cover needs resealed. This sounds plausible since you say it seems roughly the same as before.
They did mention the rear seal and other seals and the oil pump and a list of things and I told them to just seal it up because that list was about $2800 so if I return it I think that conversation will happen. It doesn't pour out like before but does seem to dump oil when it is parked. Before it seemed to dump oil while driving or running. Does that make any sense? I need to drive it around so am back to kind of checking it anytime it is sitting on level ground for at least 10 or 15 minutes. I have a question for you that I can't find on line. It seems like when I check the oil and it is hot even seeing it on the end of the dipstick is probably ok, and indicates that the level when cold and the oil settles is between the hatch marks. Does this seem right to you? The reason I ask is that sometimes if the oils seems to be barely on the stick I panic and put oil in but once it settles down I have actually put a bit too much. I know that too much oil is bad as well.
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On 2/26/2022 at 12:12 AM, idosubaru said:
“The seals” - which ones?
They told me seals needed to be replaced- and also said the oil pump might be leaking. The car seemed to not leak at first but I drove 71 miles to see my grandkids and noticed coming back that it dumped some oil again. I have been checking since the fix literally everywhere I go and it seemed fine-- so I am pretty bummed that it is leaking once again. I can't tell if it is from the same area but it seems to be. I realize that it could just appear to leak from there and be somewhere else. I don't really know how to proceed. While I trust the mechanic and think they acted in good faith I now wonder if I should of brought it to a Subaru dealer. I am back to driving the car and checking the oil level constantly.
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On 2/24/2022 at 2:19 PM, ThosL said:
Glad to hear you solved the problem.
Lucas has a good reputation, the idea I think is that it causes gaskets to swell up to limit leaks somewhat; I've used their tranny product in the past with some good results. Restore is also a good product. Many of the other additives may be just a waste of money or worse. Slick 50 comes to mind. I tried Tuffoil once; a friend recommended "ER", energy release, expensive stuff. Also tried the Platinum gas saver, it seemed to defy physics that having platinum and rhenium vapors bubbling into the combustion would lead to better combustion.
Amazon reviews is always an interesting educational experience, I usually check the most critical.
yeah and I thought of a seal conditioner like AT-205 Atp Re-Seal because while the reseal on the timing belt cover has worked exceedingly well, the mechanic told me the seals were leaking as well
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16 hours ago, idosubaru said:
Cheers that’s awesome ! Given how bad it was it sounds like that may have done the trick!
I’ve done it, thats a horrendous job. Squeeze a 17 ft continuous bead of sealant that can’t be compromised when sliding that awkwardly huge cover in a tight space to line up the 60 bolts that hold the cover on. Good price for the headache.
Driving through 8 inches of snow and it feels fine- no oil leak that I can see. Yeah, I think they did a good job on it and hopefully it will not leak oil from else where at least for a while. I think I will tackle a transmission fluid and filter change once the snow goes away, that will be the next thing!!
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4 hours ago, idosubaru said:
It's not a bad idea to ask how much they'd charge to install another engine. Engine and install would run $2k-$3k, considerably more than repair.
I'm a little hesitant to spend a lot more to replace a known engine with an unknown. and at least he'd get a new water pump and seals out of the repair.
If OP is serious about driving another 150k, JDM begins to look more attractive.
A rebuilt engine would definitely be advantageous if it comes to that
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4 hours ago, idosubaru said:
Sorry again. Glad it wasn't worse and may you continue with your attitude about it which seems about the best possible given those circumstances.
Take a case of oil and check frequently. It'll drip onto the ground or blow back where the most it can touch is the exhaust m.anifold heat shield. They are routinely coated with thick, burnt on oil like an old charcoal grill from frequent oil exposure. I see it all the time. Not to encourage flippancy but these issues are very forgiving. This is probably a rare case where a lower plastic shroud is ideal - it would likely prevent a lot of blow back while driving. If you still have it or can get one - put it on.
picked up the vehicle today and so far I don't see any leaking and it was pouring out before- I don't know if other issues will flair up, we will see but the vehicle seems to be running fine besides the leak. So smooth that sometimes at idle I think the car is not running. all I can do is keep my fingers crossed and the $375 price tag I can live with.
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1 hour ago, idosubaru said:
Oh wow sorry to hear that. I hope your wife and the other parties involved fared okay in that accident sounds bad!?
I don’t know what they were doing exactly but The tire spinning is probably benign. Awd cars do it all the time depending on any number of factors - how and why it’s lifted started in gear brakes etc.
Yes the mechanic is replacing too much but I wouldn’t necessarily fault him, he’s just not overly familiar with that engine and he’s in way more trouble if he doesn’t replace something and it back fires than simply replacing more than necessary. I’d fault the dealer for not being a little more mechanically savvy for of up-selling so many parts.
If you end up selling yours and it’s rust free let me (or the board) know how much you want for it.
Thanks for your kind words- The Saturn had side curtain air bags and luckily my wife was not hurt more severely but the accident did result in her having to have plates in her neck and to this day she has to take medication for the nerve pain. I am not sure what happened to the woman who hit her but I do know she was not killed. She spun out and went into a shallow ravine and hit a tree (A Rav 4). My wife spun out into the opposing traffic lane where the car ended up and luckily she was not struck. If she had been it would of been a lot worse. She was removed from the vehicle with the jaws of life. Worse thing that has ever happened to us.
On the car- I realize I am taking a gamble doing the minimum but I have never had 1) an oil pressure light come on 2) check engine lights 3) no timing chain shudder or noise etc. I will pick up the car tomorrow and hopefully the major oil slick will be no more!
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On 2/15/2022 at 9:35 AM, idosubaru said:
sure thing. I get that. I’m not questioning them. when we are limited by typing and third party communication, clarity can help work out some kinks on limited platforms like this.
You've been so helpful that I wanted to sort of update you on this prolonged experience. I got a call from the mechanic and in his opinion (and he mentioned that he consulted with Subaru) the car needs a front seal replacement, a back seal replacement, oil pump is leaking some, the tensioner and chain should be replaced and the water pump and numerous other seals etc to a grand total tune of $2900 - I almost had a feeling that my mechanic while trying to do due diligence went down a rabbit hole of what should be done over what needs to be done. I certainly feel uncomfortable about spending that much when the car is probably only worth 4K. OH and he also cautioned me that there might be something wrong with the transmission because when they started the car on the rack in park one of the tires turned super slowly. I don't know what that is all about but I told him that since they are just at the point of having the cover off that I felt it prudent to just clean up the old seal, re-seal and hopefully that will for the most part stop the dripping oil leak.
I don't know, man, I can afford the $350 for resealing the timing chain cover-- so I think that is going to be my best course of action here. I paid cash for the car 4.5 years ago due to replacing a car that was destroyed in a horrible crash in Georgia when an 89 year old woman crossed over the line on a two lane highway and hit my wife.
Time to save my pennies and look for a suitable replacement- been eyeing a Crosstek or a Mazda Cx-3.
Cheers
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On 2/18/2022 at 2:19 PM, el_freddo said:
That’s epic about the update! If they pull it off those mechanics are ones to keep returning to!
That’s the equivalent of our country hospitality I’d say.
Cheers
Bennie
I felt the same thing but it turned out that I should of taken my damn car! My wife and I ended up missing my grandson's 4th birthday party and it really bummed me out badly. Up where I live there are no Lifes or Uber or even many bus routes to get down to the flatland to rent a car. MY RATIONAL mind should of said, to keep the car but I got pulled into the mechanics enthusiasm. I don't fault them, it was my decision in the end, I fault myself. Spoke to them today and they are now telling me that the back seal needs to be done and because of that it is smart to change the timing chain and tensioner because the car has 173K miles-- this is going to end up being an expensive fix considering the age of the car and how much it is worth. That being said, the car was purchased for cash 4 and a half years ago so I suppose I shouldn't complain. Definitely going to keep a look out for an older more fuel efficient second car. This is not a good place to be without wheels.
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41 minutes ago, idosubaru said:
You drove it some before taking it in without a fire. I’ve seen copious oil leaks and it’s usually a non issue. Some people call it rust prevention.
Engine fires aren’t rare - ask a fire department if you know anyone who works there. In cities with lots of people the fire departments are rather humbug about car fires.
if it starts smoking bad don’t pop the hood - that greatly increases air flow to the fire.
yeah and I keep a fire extinguisher in the car. I have done this with all cars since I had an engine fire in a 72 PS 1800 Volvo-- UPDATE: my mechanic's boss saw a post on a Facebook page asking for car rentals places and they felt bad (small mountain community) and called me to say that the boss and him were personally diving in to the motor (that was at 9:20am) to try to get it done for me. I was pretty blown away, it has been three hours without a follow up call so I am pretty sure they did not find another issue and I have a feeling I will get the car back today.
thanks man
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On 2/15/2022 at 9:35 AM, idosubaru said:
sure thing. I get that. I’m not questioning them. when we are limited by typing and third party communication, clarity can help work out some kinks on limited platforms like this.
So I brought the car to a local mechanic I trust. I only have the one car so I had to drop it off and walk the 2 miles home. They think it is just the front seal of the timing chain cover and if it is only that and not the rear (which they tell me they will only know once the cover is off) -- just the front fix will be about $350 which seems to be fair to me. They told me they were hoping to possibly have the cover off yesterday. He calls me later in the day to apologize that they could not get to it because the two cars they were working on are taking longer and one mechanic is out sick. He said it looks like they will not get to it until next Tuesday. I get it. I live in a mountain community and all the mechanics are constantly busy.
So here is my problem, I have to go to my grandson's 4 year old birthday. Gotta go. Enterprise and Budget are either out of cars in my area or super expensive right now and I would have to drive down the mountain anyway to go rent something. The party is 73 miles away. I don't mind dropping oil in the car to get there (and yes it does bother me that I am littering oil) but do you think this is a possible fire hazard. I wouldn't think so since the drip is literally at the bottom of the motor. The drips can be blown on the exhaust pipes and cats. I thought about even taking hose clamps and attaching a metal funnel (with a rubber hose) to wick or guide the dripping further down to the ground. Thought about mickey mousing a catch cup.
Is this crazy??? ha
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3 hours ago, idosubaru said:
"belt" or "chain" is easily interchanged for expediency sometimes, but if it means this shop isn't familiar with Subaru H6's then it might mean they're also likely to replace tensioners or chains, both of which are pointless to replace on that specific engine.
Given that price difference he almost certainly means the inner timing cover seal between it and the block. It's an 11 mile long bead of sealant from a tube. lol
Well to be fair, they didn't suggest it had a belt. I wouldn't say they are Subaru experts but have certainly worked on a fair share of them because over 50% of the people up here (I live in the California Mountains) seem to have them, probably even closer to 60%. I will certainly be monitoring them and I get a sense that they are good people in terms of not doing more than they have to do. Again, thanks for all your help / suggestions etc.
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1 hour ago, idosubaru said:
If you correctly placed the sealant - it leaked because of the issue I outlined in detail earlier. The second you're done cleaning it - oil inside the chain cover and just past where the cleaning agents reached - started to seep back into the crack, preventing proper adhesion of whatever you stuff up in there. It's like turning an oil bottle upside - it just continually drips for a really long time - that's what's happening inside the pathway of the leak - it just keeps coming.
Your best chance might be to clean, then wait as long as you can to clean again, then wait as long as you can to clean again....and repeat until maybe no more oil is creeping down the pathway of the crack when you go to seal it. But that's highly inconvenient and still might not work - we dont' know the source of the leak internally and how much oil is pooled up there to keep supplying the leak.
Thicker oil won't hurt the engine at all - but it's not going to help either so just skip that.
It doesn't have timing belts
Do not replace the chains or guides or tensioners
There are no sensors related to the covers - nothing to replace there.The only thing to consider replacing is the water pump - buy one from Subaru, not aftermarket. That, and the timing cover origns/sealant should be the only costs here.
Yeah the "belt" was an error, I knew it was chain driven. Thanks for the info- I think that the water pump is a smart move considering. What do you think the guy was referring to when he said inner seal??
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On 2/11/2022 at 7:33 PM, idosubaru said:
You probably already know all this but to make it clear. To help you imagine what’s happening and help plan a successful attempt:
At the atomic level the surfaces are rough, and long. We think of these as smooth short surfaces. That’s not the case.
A “smooth surface” to us is a rough, albeit less rough, surface at the atomic level. Think of the mating surfaces the oil is passing through like ridges on textured furniture.
The oil is traveling from inside the timing cover, pushing or running through the mating surfaces/leak area, and dripping outside.
The width of the mating surfaces, or the distance the oil is traveling through the leak - is let’s say 1/32 of an inch.
If we zoom in such that the leak path appears 6” wide - because at the atomic level 1/64” is a long distance. It is also rough. When it’s cleaned from the outside the cleaners will only get to the first 1-2”. The remaining 4-5” are rough (ridges/texture) and still holding residual oil. After cleaning, that residual oil then gets pulled down by gravity from the uncleaned areas (which is rough/has ridges) down to the recently cleaned area.
That will prevent proper adhesion and curing to seal the leak
This is what makes it very difficult to clean and seal from the outside. It seems thin and smooth to us but it’s most definitely not. There’s no way to clean the entirety of the crack.
but a few considerations:
1. clean it multiple times.
2. Do this when it’s cold outside and the oil is thicker as long as the sealant or epoxy allows it. If working in the cold leave the sealant/expose inside st room temperature until application
3. Spray cleaner as close up into the mating surface as possible. Put the nozzle right on it to build pressure
4. Be prepared for a quick, thorough application of the sealant/epoxy
5. if any sealants are more forgiving of oil contamination - use those.
6. Probably not worth it or won’t want to but Changing the oil to 20w50 to may impede oil migration through the mating surfaces becaUse it’s thicker.
Let us know how it goes!
I tried to clean it as best I could using alcohol and then I layered on 5 coats. Per the instructions, I let the engine warm up a bit. It is still leaking about the same like the sealant didn't do a damn thing. I wouldn't mind trying again. I thought about the thicker oil too but I wonder if that could cause lubrication issues. By the way, I finally went to a good mechanic who I have used in the past and they will be diagnosing the leak on Thursday. He says if it is an just an outer seal leak that the cost would be $550 but if it is an inner seal leak it will be $750. He says that a lot of people would go ahead and order a timing belt kit to replace the tensioner, chain and any internal oil sensors if there are any but that the quality of the chain and tensioner will be inspected at that time. He says doing that might add an additional $400. I don't feel like soaking a lot of money into the Subaru but then again if I get a few more years out of it and have no car payment whatsoever I should be jumping up and down (I suppose) from happiness.
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35 minutes ago, idosubaru said:
Well done diagnosing it. There are 10 or something orings associated with the timing covers.
If you can get it clean and compress a high quality sealant in it could definitely work as long as the oil isn’t pressurized which I think could only happen if it’s oil pump related. That seems unlikely.
once you clean it - more residual oil that was above the cleaned area will continue to slowly creep into it and keep tainting the areas you want the sealant to bond. That will be what prevents a good seal.
Id probably use The Right Stuff unless I heard of something better.
I was going to use Permatex spray seal repair but I think The Right Stuff would be fine as well. I like what you are saying about the bond being tainted by any residual oil possibly dripping down. I am going to saturate the area with rubbing alcohol and fan dry etc. There is like a pocket area where I can also shove a sponge into that should keep debris or oil from running into the bond-- hey I can only try it and hope for the best- thanks for being so helpful
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55 minutes ago, idosubaru said:
She's talking about 4 cylinder engines which are totally different. Yours is a 6 cylinder. They are doing 4 cylinder HG's all the time and rarely see H6 engines, that's the norm and it's confusing her.
I cleaned the bottom of the engine where the leak is AND I checked the header contact areas on the passenger and drivers side (NOT even a hint of oil on either side). I did find the point were it is leaking along where the timing chain cover marries to the engine and interestingly it is dead nuts by a bolt and it ONLY leaks at that one point (see pic). It will be so expensive to repair that I am thinking of trying to research a resilient silicone or epoxy that might stop the leak from the outside. I know that is a long shot and sort of mickey mouse but it would save me so much money. What do you think? Thanks
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On 2/9/2022 at 6:57 PM, idosubaru said:
Like I said in last reply PCV isn’t going to fix a pouring leak like that.
Great pic. That’s definitely (or as definitely as I can imagine ‘diagnosing over the internet’), the timing cover.
It appears to be the front cover, which would make sense - it gets sprayed and copiously doused with oil internally for the timing chain components when running and oil collects at the bottom and leaks.
Very roughly it’ll: $300-$600 for front cover only. $500-$1,000+ for front and rear cover reseal.
I can’t recall all the orings and gasket associated with the oil pump but there still may be a chance it’s the rear cover. But there’s enough oil that appears forward of the rear to block mating surface that it looks like it’s coming from the front cover to rear cover mating juncture.
A shop will be able to wipe/spray/clean it and verify.
I had an interesting conversation with a mechanic this morning-- I told them my situation and that I think the timing chain cover is leaking and wanted a quote- she insisted that it most likely is not that, that it is that the heads have to be resurfaced and that they do tons of those jobs, that it is a common problem for this motor and while that very well maybe true as hard as I tried to get the timing chain cover leak she pretty much insisted that is not the problem (not seeing the car) and quoted me for the head job at $2800
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yeah I got one quote for $720 and calling 4 more good mechanics tomorrow- The house I am in now is small with no garage. If I had a big ole garage like I used to have I might take it on myself. Thanks for your informative opinions.
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4 hours ago, idosubaru said:
That's a terrible leak, way worse than I envisioned.. Can you get a real clear photo still shot of that area just above where it's dripping? The video is great for the extent of the leak, but poor resolution and lighting for any detail.
In order of increasing difficulty/expense, that's the oil pan, front timing cover, or rear timing cover.
The pic is while the car is not running- it barely drips when not running but when it runs it has a constant drip. It is really hard to shimmy under the car when it is running and see where it drips from but I think if I got a piece of plexiglass I could lay beneath it and maybe help me see it. I installed a new PCV valve and I thought it might cause a decrease in the drip due to less oil pressure but if it is it is not much.
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39 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:
eh, if it wasn't gummy, a new/clean one may not help at all. If it WAS gummy, there could be some decrease in oil leak severity.
thanks- will let you know!
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15 minutes ago, idosubaru said:
When you first removed it was it clogged or freely moving?
Replace snd see what happens.
Replace or look at oil cooler gasket. Easy fix it that’s leaking, which they commonly do.
It seemed to be moving freely but had a lot of black build up- not sure if this video will upload but trying to show the extent of the leak while the car is running. hoping that once I replace the PCV valve that it will not drip like this- that being said I will get a quote to repair
Adding Oil additives like Lucas Stop Leak or similar to a Subaru
in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
Posted
Yes, last night I researched the radiators via amazon and found one that garnered good reviews- only $166 and considering (like you said) the age of the car and the fact that this is not that difficult a job, I think it is time to just install a new one plus some new hoses.