Mosaic68
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Posts posted by Mosaic68
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Thats why something doesnt add up (i'm not blaming the poster, just the repair shop).
I wouldnt warrenty an engine on just a top end rebuild either.
nipper
He's warrantying it 'cuz he wants the job. I told him I wanted a CCR b/c of warranty and just piece of mind - he told me he wanted to 'own the job'.
If only I had a garage to do the swap, it would be shipped already.
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Thats why something doesnt add up (i'm not blaming the poster, just the repair shop).
I wouldnt warrenty an engine on just a top end rebuild either.
nipper
I'll ask for more details.
My own reasoning for HG issues:
1. Running with empty radiator
2. Rough start
3. First indi visit trying everything to remove #3 misfire and getting nowhere - trusted mechanic, I believe him.
4. Carbon in reservoir
Why does one need more info? What else would cause the above. There's at least 1 internal head gasket leak, and with the engine being pegged, I think both heads should be leveled.
As far as more damage is concerned, we'll see. As I said, the engine runs fine. I'll demand to see the block with the heads off for verification, at least I'll be able to see the sleeves and piston faces, and if they don't clean the block faces off I can see where possible leaks were.
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then nothing makes any sense at all.
I am totally confused, as nothing is following any logic or making any sense.
Take the car to a sompletly difernt shop and get another opinion. Tell them nothing about the other shops opinions, just tell them the symptons.
nipper
Since explainations were through a friend and I was freaked out when explaining them here are the symptoms:
Before any symptoms, radiator run dry, engine temp gauge pegged for ~1 block.
1. On startup, rough idle for ~15s and causes #3 cel misfire - the 15s has grown over last 2 weeks was intermittent, isn't anymore and is getting progressively worse.
2. Car runs fine otherwise - I cannot speak to power or response, though little I've ridden/driven doesn't seem to dog.
3. Eventually, w/in or less than 1 week the cel blinks.
4. Coolant reservoir has chunks of black soot in it.
from the shop(s):
I. first Indi mechanic: Both plugs and wires have been replaced and injector cleaner used to no avail. I'm guessing he found coolant in the cylinder by removing spark plug? Can't speak to it, just know he emptied all tricks to fix #3 misfire cel over a day and half.
I. dealer: compression test shows likely IHG leak on all four cylinders
II. Indi 2: relative compression test shows there is most likely integrity in rings and pistons (no holes and no sprung rings - unless they either all have holes or all have sprung rings), also based on how it runs there are no strange noises, slapping, diesel type noises or other leading him think there are any troubles with engine internals. As I witnessed, it runs smooth. We'll see when they open the engine up.
I cannot speak to online forums experience at not hearing of all four having IHG failures, myself guessing it's not a frequent result but probably happens given a possibly uneducated woman and her daft idiot husband. Both Dealer and Indi were not surprised, and neither was a manager from this place: http://www.subaruguys.com/ This could be wrong, we'll know in the next day or two.
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I sort of lost track that it is still running. It should be running very poorly then.
nipper
It actually runs pretty well. I mean that in terms of how it sounds. I can't speak to power since I haven't driven it myself.
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Its the low conpression on all four cylinders that is the weird part of this.
Back to a HG issue, its usually just one cylinder.
Personally I wouldnt trust this engine or block with the information at hand to be repaired. Maybe if it was in front of me, I would have a different opinion.
nipper
Well, according to the dealer and my indi, IHG leaks on all four cylinders is NOT uncommon with subies that have been overheated...
If something is wrong with the internals, we have 36,000 mi for it show.
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How did we go from low cpompression all four cylinders, then possible hydraulic lock with a bent connecting rod, to headgaskets?
nipper
Possible hydraulic lock was from a friend who is a lift truck maintenance manager, and as scott stated, his 'guess' can be thrown out.
Doesn't an internal HG leak cause low compression?
As far as the thread goes, I don't think we ever left the idea out that it was a Headgasket, did we?
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if this is the case then you need to make absolutely sure that it's not a leak somewhere. and like Miles said have the mechanic check the intake gaskets, particularly if the one side was replaced before.
if you do end up doing the head gaskets and they're pulling the engine then you'll want:
clutch replaced including both retaining clips, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, pressure plate and clutch. all of that should come in a clutch kit except possibly the retaining clips.
for an automatic you'd replace the front torque converter seal. i always replace the ring-seal around the shaft as well but that's not necessary on this vehicle. be very careful and make sure the mechanic knows how to seat a Subaru torque converter seal, they are a bit tricky and are broken sometimes by people that don't know how to get the last 1/4" seated.
OK. So with, I think he called it a 'relative compression check', they believe the short block to be OK.
We're getting both HG's replaced, milling the heads flat.
As the motor is removed, we're replacing water pump, front and rear seals, Timing belt, plugs, radiator flush, new set of coolant hoses... for $2900.
Asked about the torque converter seal, manager is looking into it - asked them if they new how to install, they're getting back to me.
Finish time of Friday evening, 3 yr/36,000mi warranty.
Not surprised if you guys are going to tell me this is high... not feeling like I have many options here in G.R. MI. As far as doing all the components, like water pump, etc, I really don't have the facilities to do this stuff myself, and since the motor is removed, why not.
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Excellent info so far, thanks. This is kind of what these forums are best at: helping an enthusiast make the best of an odd circumstance. Most of us will never need to change an engine, so those who do usually have to figure it out as they go, no previous experience. It'd be a bummer to find out a month from now he could've spent a little more and gotten a much better engine, had he only known.
Is there a front tranny seal that might be wise to spend a couple bucks and a few minutes changing? How about an inner CV boot, do these fail within 100k? Are they significantly easier to change with the engine out? If so he should take a close look at their condition. Where would be a good place to price out a complete set of coolant hoses front and back?
Excellent ideas all.
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Actually its any modern engine, overheating can go so terribly wrong so very fast. Learn to scan the dash board regularly, thats what the temp gauge is for.
nipper
Me being the witness, as I said, it was only a block. Wife was driving it the previous week - as its her car. Wouldn't it go wrong over a couple of days? Say, if there are any air pockets in the water jacket?
Would like to know why Subies don't have a reservoir sensor...
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HEY - is this vehicle still qualified for Subaru's extended head gasket replacement campaign - that's up to 100,000 miles on some 2000-2002 EJ25's...sounds like his may be???
Just for giggles you might want to check the backside of your engine assembly. The external leaks like your 2001 have are very obvious but do not necessarily cause puddles on the ground. They actually leak very slow at the rear of the engine and run down the back of the engine. It can run down the engine, motor mounts, cross member and burn off before really hitting the ground.
My guess is the old stuff is ignition related and the newest stuff is a different problem - loss of coolant was an external leak that was slow and went unnoticed until the coolant level dropped too much. hard to say over the internet without seeing anything, but based on EJ's and 2001...and what i'm reading i think that's the most likely scenario .
Your 2001 is a candidate for the Subaru coolant additive, it should have had the coolant additive added to it (that is for 2000 - 2002 EJ25's, not earlier ones).
As far as I understand it's for external leaks ONLY. I'll get with the mechanic today and have him double check...
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now what happened recently, the loss of coolant, i have no idea what happened there but you're positive there was no external leaking?
no puddles under the car... if that's what you mean. nothing obvious, no.
Guess I learned something with HG failures here, didn't know they go bad so quickly. Either way, I will be monitoring both of our subies MUCH more frequently and regularly...
I'll have to say, ya gotta love forums.
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One question I'd like to educate myself on with CCR, how do I know which phase 2.5L I'm getting?
Was phase 1 DOHC? or are there 2 different SOHC?
I understand '01-'04 are phase II, is this right?
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Well with a new engine, the only PM thing would be a clutch if it was a stick, otherwise everything else is new.
You may want to think about replacing the radiator, at the very least have it boiled out. Depending upon why it failed, it may be filled with gunk.
nipper
Good suggestion, it's an AT car, only 65k mi.
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Cooked.
He had no radiator fluid, but enough in the block. And it was a block that he noticed. Trust me, it had been pegged for much longer then a block.
nipper
Ok. at most, 2. but I'm gonna stick by 1. We were just headed out on a road trip and turned around. This motor has seen a rough year and has died quietly.
The longer story is that we started having #3 cyl. cell code much earlier in the year - Mid summer. Driver side HG recall was done 2/06, I'm guessing it started leaking (slowly) soon after the recall, wife was bringing into valvoline for oil changes, valvoline most likely topped it off every visit - if the dealer properly filled it to begin (that is working the air bubbles out)- I question this b/c I had to tighten all the fuel hoses b/c of leakage (puddling) and am fairly confident they DIDN'T machine the head or check it for that matter b4 reassembling. Btw, "one head gasket" was meant to be driver or passenger 'side'.
Back to the motor, my guess is that the #3 cylinder is the worse of the four and was the first cylinder to fail since it produced the cel on startup intermittently about mid summer - I originally thought it was spark plug failure. Tried that, I thought it went away after doing that... (I had no idea there would be a connection between the two).
Went on a lengthy stay in Spain in August/Sept, returned, cel for #3 either was there already or re-appeared, but NO other symptoms. Like Scott said, there are NO outward signs that there are HG issues here, except for rough start up and #3 cel. Earlier this summer through to winter, there were no signs! And even then, the signal was a rough idle on startup and #3 cel. Obviously, the HG was ruined once the cel showed, motor probably fried within a month or so?
Nothing until empty radiator in mid november, then after that, EVERY startup was rough.
I'll admit I'm guilty of just letting it run on auto and hadn't grasped the severity of subaru HG issues or subaru sensitivity to coolant air pockets, I've never had slow coolant leaks on past cars, though, I've never had my cars worked on by anyone but ME. Expensive lesson not to be repeated.
I have no idea how the dealer checked each cylinder, probably should have asked, but since I don't want them to touch anything from here out, I'm bringing it to the indi - which I hadn't found until today. I just wanted a quick sanity check. And yes, I'm sure it sounds strange that if I didn't trust them why have them sanity check it, like I said I hadn't located ANY in G.R. up to today that was the least familiar with subies, besides until late last week, I didn't think the motor was as bad as it was...
I'll probably have him run his own diagnostics to the point of confirmation, most likely ordering a motor from CCR (thanks for the tip!!! seriously!!!!!!
). I'm figuring it will be the quickest, most reliable and cheapest option. How long you guys think a shop could turn this around, an afternoon?I still don't understand how the other obvious symptoms (oil in fluid, fluid in oil, white nasty exhaust, bubbles in reservoir) are missing here and have been missing for the last 6 months. It has run great through all of this and except for start up, still does!!!
:lol:
Internal HG leak all 4 cyl? No symptoms?
in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
Posted
What's not IHG issues?
overheated
stumbling on start up for 15s as fluid is pumped from #3
hydrocarbons in reservoir
thanks for the tip on the seal install, but even though I fed it back to the forum incorrectly, I read your post directly to the manager.