Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!
|Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.
We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!
Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!
SOA didn't fix my clutch-shudder problem!
Posted 28 February 2002 - 06:50 PM
Posted 28 February 2002 - 11:09 PM
I've owned three (non Subaru) used cars prior to purchasing a new Subaru. Two of those cars had 115k miles at the time of purchase, the other had 73k.
I drove the first one for 60k (115k - 175k) before I traded it in. No clutch problems.
I drove the second one for 35k (73k-108k) before it was totaled. No clutch problems.
I'm still driving the third (115k - 196k and counting). No clutch problems.
My 00 GT: 35 miles - 22k & plenty of clutch problems.
Not an intelligent way to spend $23,000.
Posted 01 March 2002 - 10:03 AM
Just trying to brainstorm other possibilities.
If I do start to consider an aftermarket clutch I will start doing the clutch burns and 2nd gear starts, but at this point I'm still under the frame of mind that it's a friggin $24k car that is new and should *NOT* require this. I can wear out my clutch on my own w/o a dealer doing it for me. I think the 2nd gear start/clutch burn is a temporary patch and far from fixing it. In the long run, that may even make it worse.
I got a coutesy call from my subie dealer yesterday (wasn't there to get it though) so I'll call them back and tell them how unhappy I am w/ the car/this problem at present.
Posted 01 March 2002 - 11:06 AM
This morning's scientific testing on the way to the office (28deg outside) led me believe that I just need to change the way I drive...I think I posted about this a few days ago. Low RPM launch this morning...tons o' shuddering. 1500-1700 RPM's, very smooth. Now, if only it were this repeatable when it's at the damn dealer! Had the car in on Wednesday for service and, again, they were "unable to duplicate the problem.
Posted 01 March 2002 - 11:36 AM
If they won't give you the time of day to do that.....then take your business to another dealer.....or get on SOA about the dealer.....
I know everyone that has had this problem has complained....some have gotten reasonable response from SOA, and or the dealer. The biggest thing to do here is be a freakin TACTFULL *******....I'm not sayin go in there and rant and rave....I'm talking be tactfull with them, tell them you've talked to SOA....which you should....tell them you're goin to the NTSB, writing to the BBB, basically anything to get them to think this guy is serious, and we better treat him that way.
I have worked at a dealership....I know how they work.....It is extremely sad that if you want to get something done...you have to resort to stuff like that....but in instances like this....the people that bitch loud enough to the right people are more likely to get a response in their favor.
Posted 22 April 2002 - 07:32 PM
Posted 23 April 2002 - 09:26 AM
Posted 23 April 2002 - 10:44 AM
Posted 23 April 2002 - 11:05 AM
From reading the post it doesn't look like there is anything SOA will do about it. Why am I not surprised? Perhapse I'll mention it next time I go to my dealer...to get my clutch replaced. They messed up the install the first time.
Everyone I talk to also seems to have a problem shifting in the cold. I normaly have to shift through the gears and pump the clutch pedal a couple of times before I can put the car into gear. However its fine once it has warmed up, could be a related problem?
Posted 26 April 2002 - 03:25 PM
I remember a friends subaru wagon (circa 1987 or so) that shuddered too. Seems this is a design trait of Subaru clutches. some are probably worse than others.
Mike Shields at www.spdusa.com/shifting.htm has a great section on driving tips that really helped me out with the clutch in my OBS. A must read for all gear rowers.
If you want the smoothest easiest to drive clutch you should probably buy a honda.
Posted 04 May 2002 - 11:04 PM
"So my car has 105K the clutch seems to work fine, no slipping or strange pedal action or anything of that nature. I'm just in plan ahead mode and we all know the standard subaru clutch is not the smoothest out there.
Has anyone changed, upgraded, or replaced their clutch with something other than the OEM part? "
Then thought i should do a search first and came across this thread. I would like to add my story in the hopes that it might ease some concerns regarding the durability of the subaru clutch.
My 97 OBS 2.2 with 105K has shuddered on and off since new. I have been in friends' subarus that shuddered. I have driven lots of standard shift cars, trucks, motorcylces, tractors, atvs etc... for thirteen years. I let my finace drive my car (the cars a 97, i've had her, my fiance, for 11 years more on that some other time). Just so you know she's not what you call a car person . I load this car up all the time 2 people 2 130lb dogs and gear for a camping weekend.(It's tight but it can be done. )So the clutch has seen some wear and tear.
It seems clear that there is something in the design of the subaru clutch that inherently leads to shuddering. Agreed?
The Shudder occurs most often when engaging the clutch at low RPM, say 1000-1400. Agreed?
The Shudder can be temporarily fixed by "burning" or slipping the clutch excessively (read - extra wear and tear). Agreed?
"Incidentally, for the past 1000 miles or so I have really altered the way I drive this car (this, after 10 years driving a standard transmission) .... Also, I've been giving it way more gas than "normal" to get it moving (usually launching it anywhere from 1300-1500 rpms) rather than sub-1000 rpm launches. Since consciously altering my driving style, the car has shuddered less and less."
Mike Shields at www.spdusa.com/shifting.htm has lots of great driving tips and technical discussion about the subaru driveline. It is an excellent description of the technique for driving your subaru smoothly. It is a MUST read. The technique described for the subaru is significantly different than what works in other cars i have driven (hondas, toyotas, VWs, ford, chevy). I will try and describe the technique but you should really check out spdusa.com for a better explanation.
Starting from a stop.- blip throttle/gas to about 1500-1700... as you roll of the gas and the rpm's just start to drop begin releasing the clutch. The clutch is slipping but your are actually letting OFF the gas. Combine the right amount of throttle with the right speed of clutch release and you get get a smooth (relatively speaking no honda but no shudder) take off.
This technique does 2 things- slips the clutch enough to do something to the clutch plates which prevents the shudder. and 2 limits the slippage to a minimum for long clutch life.
all right i'm a loser it's saturday night and i'm tired and going to bed. If any one is interested i have lots more comments. I really think that we need to talkmore about the subaru clutch. Those you that have a history of replacement and dealership correspondence should really make noise and maybe subaru will come up with a solution one day.
That said anyone done the aftermarket thing... someone posted about one that was "really grabby" any more experiences?
going to sleep.
to be continued.....
Posted 06 May 2002 - 08:13 AM
Posted 06 May 2002 - 09:25 AM
2001 OBS, 28,000 KM
Posted 06 May 2002 - 04:11 PM
Posted 07 May 2002 - 05:17 PM
those of you who experience shudder when downshifting...you are not ****ing properly.
there should be no slipping of the clutch on downshift. In fact the only time you should be slipping the clutch at all is from a dead stop. DOWN SHIFTS MUST BE PERFORMED BY REV MATCHING. If you don't know what rev matching is then got to spdusa and read up on shifting techniques.
the subaru clutch shudders yes... it is different than other cars...
however it can be driven smoothly, but you have to re-learn how to use your feet.
It takes practice but it's is worth it. You will drive smoother your clutch wil last longer and you can do cool things like heel and toe, and rev matching.
free you mind
learn something new
and practice, practice, practice
Posted 08 May 2002 - 09:28 AM
As for rev matching and heel toes... I think the car is *perfect* for rev matching, but I still haven't gotten the pedal feel down quite well enough for the heel toes yet. I did it so much/well on an '89 honda and I still haven't quite gotten the pedal spacing feel for this one yet. '
Posted 08 May 2002 - 10:11 AM
Posted 08 May 2002 - 10:34 AM
Since people are having issues w/ the clutch both of the hydraulic system and the cable-actuated system, I think it is maybe just the clutch compound itself or something. I suspect it's a result of Subaru trying to cut cost corners somewhere.
Posted 08 May 2002 - 04:21 PM
Posted 08 May 2002 - 06:40 PM
If subaru knows it's a problem why haven't they fixed it yet? Complain to subaru maybe they will change. But in the meantime....
If all you want to do is drive get an automatic! Manual shift cars inherently require more involvement and skill.
I'm just rying to help. to offer some advice about how to operate your vehicle so it will last longer and be more fun to drive.
I love my subaru. it is a great car to drive. it is a fun car to drive. it is not as "easy" to drive as some cars but it is not impossible to drive either.
Remember when you first drove a manual shift car? Did you do it without thinking? probably not. It took practice.
Well put a little practice into it you will reap the rewards.
Otherwise sell the thing and get a honda. Subaru's have pretty good resale value so you shouldn't have to take a much of a hit in the pocket book. Maybe that will get the attention of Subaru.
Complaining here will get you no where. Coming here for advice may help you but only if you are willing to listen.
Posted 22 May 2002 - 09:25 AM
Posted 22 May 2002 - 12:12 PM
have you tried the technique i described?
Posted 23 May 2002 - 02:09 PM
Posted 23 May 2002 - 03:39 PM
it seems that more revs (i.e. 1500-1750 rpm) before releasing the clutch, and rolling off the gas, helps. What kind of rpms are you initially releasing the clutch?
I wonder if this has something to do with throttle response and the whole hesitation issue? does the 2.5 hesitate? Maybe we train our feet to operate the pedals consistently but then the engine is the variable? Lets see bad gas, overactive knock sensor, carbon build-up (unlikely in your 01 OB), bad grounds etc... just a thought.
also seems that once the shudder starts it will continue until a launch with more revs scrubs the contact surfaces in the clutch??? pure speculation here. When i get shudder i usually abort the launch a re-try with some more revs and this seems to help quite a bit.
one other trick- when rolling up to a stop sign there is a speed at which the tranny readily goes into 1st gear. At this speed (about a slow walking pace) you can release the clutch without giving the car any gas and without the clutch slipping at all. essentially a rev matched downshift, where the speed is so slow the idle speed is the right revs to allow the clutch to release without slipping. The police might not like this technique but it helps get you moving again without shudder. saves the clutch too.
in any case i hope the mileage on my vehicle is of some comfort to you.
hope this helps
Posted 24 May 2002 - 10:01 AM
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users