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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Alternative Fuels


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6 replies to this topic

#1 silverhelme

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:56 AM

I decided to start a new thread because I didn't want to hijack LPGsuperchargedBrumby's build thread.

In answer to a question I was asked no I haven't done a conversion yet but I am considering one of these. www.http://ewsews.com/index.html

What I would like to know is anyone else's experience with LPG or CNG as in what kits are available, what kind of power, pictures of the conversion parts etc.

I have noticed lately that both CNG and LPG are both coming down ( Canada prices for CNG is as low as .80 a gallon.

What I would like to do is set mine up for dual fuel so that I can take advantage of the lower prices.

#2 LPGsuperchargedBrumby

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:55 AM

YAY......another funky fuel topic lol

as my name says i run LPG/Propane as a straight conversion for the last 7 years(243'000km) with no dual fuel ability....as i converted the my Brumby myself(a BIG "no no" here lol) i feel somewhat qualified to yap a bit about LPG as a fuel.

first of all i wouldn't go back to petrol if i could avoid it....LPG is half the price of petrol... and 100 octane and i'm getting 28mpg which equals 56 mpg if i was paying for petrol


second....get quality parts....if your in the US you should have a serious look at IMPCO gear....its good quality proven gear....and its cheap as chips compared to nearly all the European gear....my only complaint with it is that it isn't as easily adjustable as the regulator and mixer that i have....however impco stuff has a larger range of mixers to fit all different engine sizes so doesn't need as much adjustment range.

http://www.impco.ws/impco-catalogs.asp
chose the low res version if you don't want to wait all week for it to download

a variable venturi mixer is a must have it makes it drive like a fuel injected motor....a fixed venturi mixer can have a little hole just off idle that is irritating in town driving

i run a Lovato boost compensating regulator and a BLOS variable venturi mixer fitted to my EJ22 throttle body...its a good setup and has never let me down on the mechanical side.....
i did have a failure of the safety cutout relay (it will only allow the regulator to supply fuel while the coil is firing) however i had already run a line up from the now unused fuel pump power supply that only supplys power when the coil is firing) so wasn't stranded in the middle of nowhere

one thing with LPG tank sizes...bigger really is better...i have 75 liters...i am in the process of organising a 120 liter tank....LPG pumps aren't as widespread as normal fuel so more range is good.

Oh..... and LPG and CNG both tune Air/Fuel ratio backwards to petrol....

LPG will be more likely to ping/detonate if it is running rich...lean it out a bit and the pinging will go away....however if you are having pinging issue's with a stock engine you have the ignition way too far advanced

i should shut up now...i'm starting to sound like the LPG nerd on a roll:brow:

cheers
Callum

#3 monstaru

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:18 PM

yay......another funky fuel topic lol

as my name says i run lpg/propane as a straight conversion for the last 7 years(243'000km) with no dual fuel ability....as i converted the my brumby myself(a big "no no" here lol) i feel somewhat qualified to yap a bit about lpg as a fuel.

First of all i wouldn't go back to petrol if i could avoid it....lpg is half the price of petrol... And 100 octane and i'm getting 28mpg which equals 56 mpg if i was paying for petrol


second....get quality parts....if your in the us you should have a serious look at impco gear....its good quality proven gear....and its cheap as chips compared to nearly all the european gear....my only complaint with it is that it isn't as easily adjustable as the regulator and mixer that i have....however impco stuff has a larger range of mixers to fit all different engine sizes so doesn't need as much adjustment range.

http://www.impco.ws/impco-catalogs.asp
chose the low res version if you don't want to wait all week for it to download

a variable venturi mixer is a must have it makes it drive like a fuel injected motor....a fixed venturi mixer can have a little hole just off idle that is irritating in town driving

i run a lovato boost compensating regulator and a blos variable venturi mixer fitted to my ej22 throttle body...its a good setup and has never let me down on the mechanical side.....
I did have a failure of the safety cutout relay (it will only allow the regulator to supply fuel while the coil is firing) however i had already run a line up from the now unused fuel pump power supply that only supplys power when the coil is firing) so wasn't stranded in the middle of nowhere

one thing with lpg tank sizes...bigger really is better...i have 75 liters...i am in the process of organising a 120 liter tank....lpg pumps aren't as widespread as normal fuel so more range is good.

Oh..... And lpg and cng both tune air/fuel ratio backwards to petrol....

Lpg will be more likely to ping/detonate if it is running rich...lean it out a bit and the pinging will go away....however if you are having pinging issue's with a stock engine you have the ignition way too far advanced

i should shut up now...i'm starting to sound like the lpg nerd on a roll:brow:

Cheers
callum


ttiwwp
(this thread is worthless without pics):-p:popcorn:

#4 silverhelme

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:18 PM

Yes please provide pics of you set up. I am still looking to see what is available at what price.

#5 LPGsuperchargedBrumby

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:35 AM

my camera persists in taking 2.3mb pic and i don't know how to resize them so i can put them on here

#6 Cyfun

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:21 PM

my camera persists in taking 2.3mb pic and i don't know how to resize them so i can put them on here


upload them to tinypic

I'm amazed more people aren't running LPG with their Roos, especially in foreign countries. You'd think at least a few of the yuppie Portland, Oregon Subaru drivers would be into that crap.

I'd love to run dual fuel, but I don't think I could afford shelling out a $hitload of money to do it.

#7 jono

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:42 PM

That link confuses the heck out of my browser and Google




Hello, or should I say g'day ?

Not sure how the italics happened, somewhere around the left hand side of the keyboard, control, shift or windows button ?


Gone !

Looking in from a foreign country with a few LPG subes and found there is no kit as such, you need to find what fits.

It is tricky to fit IMPCOs simple mixer on a standard EA81 inlet manifold inplace of the petrol carby to go dedicated straight LPG, unless you have a lift ??. I have done a temporary fit up and not most happy but it works and SNORTS :) the small air filter sits atop the mixer. A tank sits just behind cabin on the tray - 64litres useable. A Cobra or J converter and lock off is where jack used to live. Did this one in 2009.

I also have another lpg dedicated EA81 (ten years now) with the twin hitachis used as the throttle only, a 100x50 mm square metal tube I made, sits atop both, about 200mm long - is fed from the front side by an IMPCO mixer I mounted on the AC bracket - no AC fitted. Cobra or J converter lives where jack was also. 80 litre useable tank sits same, behind cabin on tray. The filler valves just roughly mountd high on tray sides where they are protected. Have been meaning to install 90 degree filler in place of petrol filler, where it should be .

A universal steering rack boot is used as a flexy air duct to the air box mounted in corner behind LHS headlight - air enters box from indicator light hole in guard. Indicator light now lower down.

An easier way now would be to use IMPCO positive pressure converter Cobra/J and a simple mixer barby style ring to install just above carby in air stream - a reason why many go for Euro style positive pressure converters - the ring is easier to fit in rather than adapt up a simple IMPCO mixer

Also run an IMPCO L converter, 200 mixer on an EA82Turbo in mixer feeds LPG vapours and air to nice spinning turbo, with most of the 3 plug ECU plugs pulled out, just run emmissions control plug in an 85 L Series sedan that was an auto version of the RX - GLTA. And just about to post up elsewhere on my knock sensor control monitoring

LPGSCB - go get picasa free from gogle has resize functions am sure or imageshack can do it too , i think. Know more about lpg than pic resizes :)

What kind of power ? I have forgotten what the power of petrol or gasoline feels like and don't care, as LPG is better for lower revving engines like our EA series, smooth crsip torque. I went for one fuel to avoid extra bits to buy, fit and maintain so get better reliability, based on experience. Having seen so many dual fuel set ups installed so untidy with old style like IMPCO, extra switches, wiring to play up, never have a wire chart with car for the cjhanges etc. One fuel, one tune. You have to tun to a compromise with older cars if you go dual fuel. I played with my mechanical advance slots in the dizzy reducing max advance to total no more than 28 degrees. Static is set at about 14 now, with just another 14 from inside the dizzy on my older conversion, newer one yet to do anything in dizzy, runs fine :)

If you go IMPCO someone needs to fabricate to fit things. Other systems with gas mixer ring on top of the carby between std air filter box won't allow bonnet to shut. A remote filter with mixer ring in air stream between filter and carby top will work. I have some 2 1/2 feet between my gas carb 125 IMPCO and the twins

Conversion will not give you same fuel use litre for litre, liter for liter, gallon for gallon. Expect to use 20% more LPG than petrol/gasoline. I use about 105 to 11 litres per 100km in my EA81's and about 12 l per 100km in the turbo sedan more when towing 250 to 400kg

I still drive as if I just got my licence too :D , sometimes...see you are a little older and may be more sedate, maybe not ?


I made savings with all three conversions by buying used tanks within test date or retested , up to $100 for a tank instead of 4 to 500. Used IMPCO stuff is best rekitted if you must go used, but $60 for a Cobra or so ? $60 for a mixer ? A lot of stuff can be fabricated and installed with just the gas lines to be made and fitted up by a licenced lpg installer - check local laws- but install it as per requiremnts like right size tank brackets and its anti pull through washer brackets behind etc

Edited by jono, 06 July 2012 - 08:17 PM.





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