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New Car and Brakes Squeak! Suggestions


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18 replies to this topic

#1 zooma37

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 11:41 PM

I have a new Forester with only 10,000 miles and the brakes squeak. I can't believe pads are the problem. The car is too new. Any suggestions would really help. I'd like to have some idea of the problem before I take the car back to the dealer.

#2 blitz

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 08:03 PM

About the only thing you can do is disassemble the calipers, remove the pads and apply a thin coat of anti-sqeal to the backside of the pads and a thin coat of silicon brake grease to the slides, then put it back together.

The first thing on humid mornings the brakes are gonna sqeal no matter what, until you build a little heat into the pad material via one or two moderate stops which will will chase out the moisture.

#3 zooma37

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 08:22 PM

Wow, thanks for the help. So the squeak is nothing out of the ordinary?!? The brakes seem to be working fine, and I have noticed that the squeak disappears when the brakes warm up. I just thought that the squeak meant that the pads were wearing out, which shouldn't happen so soon. Is the squeak normal for an ABS system on the Forester?

#4 RallyKeith

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 10:55 AM

I have a new Forester with only 10,000 miles and the brakes squeak. I can't believe pads are the problem. The car is too new. Any suggestions would really help. I'd like to have some idea of the problem before I take the car back to the dealer.


Is this a squeal while braking or a squeak while driving that goes away once you put your foot on the brake? These are two different things and two differnt problems. If it's the squeak while driving then the above compound should do the trick. If its a squeal under braking then you may want to try re-bedding the pads. Typical bedding process for new pads is as follows.
1. Accelerate car to 45-55mph, and gently slow to 20.
2. Repeat step one two or three more times, each time slowing harder.
(This gets the pads and rotor evenly hot.)
3. Then drive at a steady speed for at least a mile before braking normally, This is to allow the brakes to cool back down.

This usually allows all the surfaces to match up smoothly and gets all the excess stresses from manufacturing out. Most people don't realize that it needs to be done, and even taking a car to Midas they won't tell you, and won't claim to know how to fix your squealing brakes.

Good luck
Keith

#5 zooma37

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 08:03 PM

Thank you, RallyKeith and Blitz. The Forester is the first Soob I have ever owned, and I am really happy with it, despite the few minor quirks I've experienced since I bought it a year ago. I always get the squeaking/squealing whenever I first drive the car, and then when the brakes heat up, the squeaking stops, which, I guess, means that the pads aren't worn yet. Do most cars do that? I have a 93 Honda Civic that never experienced the squeak.

#6 cookie

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 12:26 AM

Unless your dealer is very weak it will be easy to sand or replace the pads and apply anti squeal and grease.
I had a local place do my Forester last year and had cold squeal as a result.
I just did the brakes over properly a couple thousand miles ago when I gave it new struts.
I break my pads in a bit harder than rally Keith.
I have been working on the clean fresh pad and rotor and two stops from 80, cool, a couple from 60, and then normal use for a while.
I have read that it coats the rotors and have tried it on the last few cars and it works for me so that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I was first taught the same as Keith but I did not always get good results so when I read that article I thought I would have a go.
The pads get very hot after the first couple of stops and I actually had them smoke last time.

#7 RallyKeith

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 09:01 AM

Unless your dealer is very weak it will be easy to sand or replace the pads and apply anti squeal and grease.
I had a local place do my Forester last year and had cold squeal as a result.
I just did the brakes over properly a couple thousand miles ago when I gave it new struts.
I break my pads in a bit harder than rally Keith.
I have been working on the clean fresh pad and rotor and two stops from 80, cool, a couple from 60, and then normal use for a while.
I have read that it coats the rotors and have tried it on the last few cars and it works for me so that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I was first taught the same as Keith but I did not always get good results so when I read that article I thought I would have a go.
The pads get very hot after the first couple of stops and I actually had them smoke last time.


I'd LOVE to see the aticle you read. Only with certian types of material is that the correct way to bed them. Certian types require a transfer of material onto the rotor, but not standard carbon pads. If you take a standard carbon/organic pad and do as you say, you actually glaze the pad, and just like pottery, you put a hard layer on the surface of the pad that until warn away makes your brakes perform worse. I'd never do that first unless instructed by the pad manufacturer.

Keith

#8 zooma37

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 10:30 AM

Does the squeak indicate a more serious brake problem or is just a harmless, unfortunate quirk of the car?

#9 cookie

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 10:58 AM

It was all over the BMW boards a while ago and perhaps I can find it with a search.
It seemed quite well written and I felt just like you do about the pads glazing.
For zooma squeaks are really not a safety issue on a newer car, they are more like a quality issue.
As long as you have plenty of pad material you should be fine.

#10 RallyKeith

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 12:12 PM

Does the squeak indicate a more serious brake problem or is just a harmless, unfortunate quirk of the car?


By the way you say it goes away I feel conifedent that it isn't a safety concern. The anti sqeual compound should solve it for you. Your squeak sounds like it is from the pad gentle vibrating against or bouncing off the break rotor. This is because there tends to be just the slightest amount of space between the pad and the rotor when you aren't on the brakes. Depending on how tolerances are in the system the pad can flop that slightest bit and "bounce" off the rotor causing a squeal. The anit squeal compound actually acts like an adhesive and keeps the pad tight against the caliper piston so it can't "bounce" off the rotor.

Keith

#11 cookie

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 12:24 PM

but I just put a post on roadfly asking if someone can find it and post me a link.
I am far too old to be as computer savvy as I could be.

#12 zooma37

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:00 PM

What does everyone think of the 03 Forester? I know that Subaru is one of the top four manufacturers in terms of reliability, but since I've read a lot about head gaskets, piston slap, etc., I am beginning to wonder if my new soob will last as long as my old 93 Honda Civic - 170,000 and counting.

#13 cookie

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:05 PM

yours has some improvements I have had to add to mine.
You will have some problems on most cars.
My last Mercedes had several problems and my BMW has had a number of them.
The Forester has more requirement for maintence in the engine area, but some things are quite nicely engineered.

#14 zooma37

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:15 PM

Cookie,

What do you mean that the Forester has "more engine maintenance?" Can you explain the kinds of problems that I could expect with this car so I don't become too alarmed.

#15 cookie

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 07:25 PM

and send the article to kieth. both failed because I had too many characters.
tomorrow perhaps keith can give me his email or someone can coach me how to post the URL. I have it in my favorites at work here.
The janitor is making noise behind me so I better go home.
will answer zooma tonight at home.

#16 cookie

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 12:26 AM

refer to the basic design choices Subaru has made.
The boxer configuration with OHC means with belt drive means there are a number of places to leak that are not present on some engines.
The engine is very smooth and inherently balanced but you pay for it.
It has cam seals to leak. They are the only engine I am familiar with that regularly need front seals replaced and rear seals more than most engines.
The famous oil pump seal leak is the only time I have ever seen an engine do that.Drive the water pump from the cam belt? Not good.
The belt driven cam choice causes you to need tensioners and belts and you have seals that run through the valve cover for the spark plugs that can leak.
Some of the past problems I hope are cured on yours.
1 The lousey clutch that chattered.
2 The oil slinger on the rear of the engine made from plastic that causes leaks.
3 The oil pump screws that come loose.
4 Lets not forget the hard to service DOHC phase 1 that blows internal head gasket leaks.
Did I forget anything folks?

#17 cookie

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 10:46 AM

or posting the URL but I have a way to get you there.
Search on "Stoptech".
On thier site look under technical. It will give you a choice of white papers.
The one I am reffering to is "The warped brake disc and other myths of the brakeing system." by Carrol Smith.
Good for me to review becuse I have been doing the first couple of stops too fast.

#18 RallyKeith

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 01:45 PM

or posting the URL but I have a way to get you there.
Search on "Stoptech".
On thier site look under technical. It will give you a choice of white papers.
The one I am reffering to is "The warped brake disc and other myths of the brakeing system." by Carrol Smith.
Good for me to review becuse I have been doing the first couple of stops too fast.


http://www.stoptech....rotors_myth.htm

Well, unfortunately that was the first article I ever read on brakes. In his article it talks about breaking in the pads, and only in referenece to RACE pads does he talk about slowing from 80, and he specifially says, " The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits."

Keith

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 08:41 PM

When I did the Subaru I printed it and went directly from it. Worked fine.
On the BMW I did it faster but it has more of a race composition pad so I got away with that.
It is a big change from the way we were taught when discs first came in of babying them for a while.




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