biglittledog Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Fellas, Here are some more pictures of the damage now the timing gear is off and the crankshaft is cleaned up. I got a new timing gear, timing belt, bolt, and key and installed these using Loctite 660 as described in the repair link in my previous thread about this. Loctite 243 on the crankbolt. The other pictures show what happens if you are an idiot... bad repairs cause bad damage. Apparently when the key originally went south, this guy kept tightening the bolt and trying to start/drive it. This dug a huge groove in the timing gear and also cut into the crankcase metal. You can compare the old and new gears and see the wear... I did not replace the crankshaft oil seal because I was afraid of what might happen if I tried to get it out. It's not leaking at all anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglittledog Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Here is the last pic showing what an idiot can do if left to his own devices... When I put the new timing belt on and lined up the cams, the crankshaft position was way off. I realize now that what idiotboy did instead of fixing the keyway was shift the belt by 4 teeth to try and compensate for the worn groove. This adjusted the ignition timing while accelerating only but also permanently threw the valve timing way ahead of the pistons...not good. He also never thought about the computer which was now getting conflicting signals from the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor. The valves weren't opening at the right times, the mixture was off, the manifold vacuum was low and went to zero with any increase in rpm. The car would maintain a constant speed or idle nicely but would bog down terribly when you tried to accelerate at all. If you floored it from a complete stop it would just sit there unmoving at about 700 rpm. My clues were watching with a timing light and seeing the computer going crazy trying to adjust the timing and a vacuum gauge showing no pressure when accelerating which was a clue to the valve timing being kableweee. My last pic was taken with the new gear and belt but the original crank position. The Green block is the crankshaft position sensor in case you haven't seen one yet. The small Green block is the tab on the timing gear that should line up with the sensor at TDC. The two Yellow circles show the new belt correctly at TDC and the gear incorrectly 4 teeth off. The Red lines show the difference in timing. Straight up is where it should be and about 2 o'clock or 40 degrees is where was. People who do things like this should have their tools forcibly taken from them. I hope this is informative and at least mildly interesting. If nothing else it let me "share my pain". The good news: The car runs great now. It has wonderful off the line accelleration and shifts smoothly through all the gears (AT). It's like a completely different vehicle! Only time will tell if this fix will hold up...I post again on this if there are problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Great pics and really interesting. I'm amazed that you were able to repair it. At least now if I ever run across it I'll know it can be fixed. Thanks. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsance Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 To me, the scary part is that a car like that is back on the road ready to be sold to an unsuspecting buyer. What a mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglittledog Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 To me, the scary part is that a car like that is back on the road ready to be sold to an unsuspecting buyer. What a mess! Hey Jerk, I never said I was selling my car, I'm trying to keep it going! I'm putting lots of time and energy into this thread so other people here can possibly repair a car they would otherwise have to get rid of or worse...get talked into a new motor for $$$ they may not need to spend. Nobody says you have to do this or trust the repair, it's just pics on how I did it myself plus references to similiar repairs on Miatas with the same problem...by an engineer that works for Loctite. It's good documentation if you want to try this is all it is. It's my kid's car and he's a starving college student so I'm gonna try and keep it going as long as possible for him. You try and be helpful and look what you get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyowensfan20 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Big Little Dog! Tell us how you really feel! Sure enough.. If the car gets your kid to and from school and the room for all the laundry he/she brings with em when they come home I"m all for it. Don't let anyone tell you how you should do things. I learned strait off when I joined here that some folks are GO TO SUBARU AND PAY WHATEVER IT TAKES...AFTER MARKET SUCKS! even though it has lifetime warranty and costs half or less that OEM. But hey to each their own..I'm a boneyard/autozone guy myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 when it's my car , i fix it the way i see fit. some times it makes it easier to steal, just use a screwdriver, sometimes it means you can start it with the clutch out and the car in gear. i learned to drive on a car that you could use the starter motor to back it out of the driveway so you could roll it down the street and pop the clutch. but now that's a no-no. it's my car, it's my call. just my $.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglittledog Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 Okay, I should calm down because the guy probably meant no harm. I wouldn't mind (and probably welcome) questioning the repair. I just don't like the fact he thinks I'm going to turn around and sell it to your unsuspecting grandma. In fact, somebody sold it to us and never told me he had it apart but we got it super cheap so I don't mind putting some repairs in on it. If it blows up I haven't lost me shirt and I'll know better next time. Peace and goodwill to all posters! PS-I did stick with OEM Subaru timing belt and plug wires and oil filter, other stuff I bought aftermarket but its still usually Bosch etc. when you get it out of the box. No reason to pay big markup on some things if you don't have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsance Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 My complete apologies. For some reason I thought that you were fixing this in a mechanic's capacity for somebody else. More power to you for finding a repair that keeps the motor going- if it breaks you are back where you started, needing a new engine, so what's the harm? I'm just shivering at the thought of pulling the timing covers and seeing something like that someday. Not that you would sell it to somebody without telling them, but somebody might! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglittledog Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 The PO seemed to know nothing about it but I spotted the pulley wobbling and he cut the price more and more until I thought the gamble was worth a shot. Sorry I get a little edgy when I'm spending my precious spare time wrenching and its near 100 degrees here in the foothills. No bad feelings at all and we'll all see how this lasts. This board is a great resource! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Nice pics. Many people don't understand that the crankshaft bolt needs to be tightened to 150 ft. lbs MINIMUM after working on the front of the engine. 200 ft. lbs is better IMO since factory tightened stuff on Japaneese vehicles seems WAY overtorqued anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawsonmh15 Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 It's my kid's car and he's a starving college student so I'm gonna try and keep it going as long as possible for him. You try and be helpful and look what you get... In state tuition at CU... You sure that YOU aren't the one starving??? Make that little punk come home and turn a couple wrenches. Or go the route of his East Coast roommates parents and just get him a 5 series XI. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglittledog Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 In state tuition at CU... You sure that YOU aren't the one starving??? Make that little punk come home and turn a couple wrenches. Or go the route of his East Coast roommates parents and just get him a 5 series XI. LOL. Ha! I can only DREAM about the good 'old days of in state tuition. My youngest graduated from the School of Mines in Golden with a Chemical Engineering degree and now is about to start his 2nd year of out of state med school. $$$$$! Right now he has a summer internship at Mission Control in Houston helping with some cardiology research so I can't enlist him for any wrench turning. We're proud but poor parents! Gulp! That's why I'm fixing the Sooby myself...so he can repair my worn out body parts in a few years when he's a Doc! I have to mention to you that I really like most of the CU kids most of the time. This past year I was in McGuckin's hardware and saw a pair of female students who were obviously from the "entitled" class attending Ski U. They were getting frustrated at the hardware guys who were having trouble fitting a Yakima rack on their new Porche Cayenne SUV. They had to be able to carry the mountain bike AND the snowboard at the same time, you know. Can you imagine the conversation? "But Daddy it snows there and I need that car to get to class..." You gotta laugh or you'll cry. Now, back to Subarus after this short break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawsonmh15 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Ha! I can only DREAM about the good 'old days of in state tuition. My youngest graduated from the School of Mines in Golden with a Chemical Engineering degree and now is about to start his 2nd year of out of state med school. $$$$$! Right now he has a summer internship at Mission Control in Houston helping with some cardiology research so I can't enlist him for any wrench turning. We're proud but poor parents! Gulp! That's why I'm fixing the Sooby myself...so he can repair my worn out body parts in a few years when he's a Doc! I have to mention to you that I really like most of the CU kids most of the time. This past year I was in McGuckin's hardware and saw a pair of female students who were obviously from the "entitled" class attending Ski U. They were getting frustrated at the hardware guys who were having trouble fitting a Yakima rack on their new Porche Cayenne SUV. They had to be able to carry the mountain bike AND the snowboard at the same time, you know. Can you imagine the conversation? "But Daddy it snows there and I need that car to get to class..." You gotta laugh or you'll cry. Now, back to Subarus after this short break! :eek::eek: I Hope you're proud of your kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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