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2.2 motor swap won't start?!


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48 replies to this topic

#1 Drakien

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:25 PM

Alright to catch everyone up to speed-
I dropped a 2.2l motor into where my 2.5l was. I did this because the 2.5l had a rod knock. I am using the 2.5l computer and harness, everything is plugged in. When I attempt to start it, it will just turn over, and over, and over. But will not start. I am stumped. I know the coil pack is good, it worked on my old motor. The spark plug wires are assumed good, and the plugs are good also, because they were just replaced in the other motor and it ran. I have looked through the repair manual at the troubleshooting page. The only thing I think it could possibly be is a clogged injector or bad injector. Or possibly I should just get a 2.2l computer and stick it in?

The 2.5l was DOHC. the 2.2l is out of a 96 or 97 with roughly 68k miles. *USDM motor*

What would cause it to not start? :confused:

Edited by Drakien, 28 March 2009 - 02:30 PM.


#2 crash321

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:44 PM

did you check for spark. What year, model of car??????????????

#3 Drakien

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:50 PM

97' legacy.
I am assuming I am getting spark, I don't have a voltage tester to check.
The coil pack is good, and the plugs are good, the only thing that might not be is the new wires I just got.
I am working on getting an OBD II code reader to see why the Check engine light is on.

Edited by Drakien, 28 March 2009 - 02:52 PM.


#4 crash321

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:55 PM

If you don't have a spark tester, just pull a plug out and ground it to see if you have a spark jumping. You need to find if you have the basics to run this engine. Check all of your connectors and make sure that you plugged them back in. I have read on here somewhere where someone have the same problem as you. It had something to do with either the cam position sensor or the crank position sensor (I can;t recall if subies have a crank position sensor). Anywho, you need to know if you have spark.

#5 Drakien

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 03:02 PM

There are both the cam sensor and the crank sensor.

I will test spark when I get off work. Thanks!

#6 crash321

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 03:09 PM

I tried to do a search for you, (I am a nice guy, excuse me as a cast up my broken arm) but I started going blind searching through the many pages. I did however read through one thread were a guy swapped an engine and found that his computer read a reluctor on the back side of his cam sproket and his crank. He needed to get the ones from his old engine and swap them out so the computer knew when to spark and fuel. Just throwing it out there. Good Luck!

#7 Drakien

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 03:27 PM

If you mean switch the sensors, then the 2.5 sensors are the ones I put on it, because the 2.2 engine didn't have them.

If your saying switch the sprockets then I could try that too, but I will make sure its getting spark first. Thanks again!

I am trying to find posts on nasioc, here, and a few other subie forums that could help.

#8 Drakien

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 08:40 PM

Alright so I looked at the timing pulley and they did look different. The offset of the sensor pick ups were a little off the side. So I switched out the pulleys and redid the timing and now when it turns over it sounds better doing that, but it still wont start.

#9 davebugs

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 08:48 PM

Unplug atleast one plug wire from the coil pack - but leave it close to the coil pack.

Have someone crank the car. It should spark to the coil pack or the the engine(intake manifold). That'll double check the sensor(I forget if crank or cam, ignitor, coil pack, etc.) and perhaps if the crank/cam sprockets/associated sensors and computer are working together,

I've done a decent amount of these swaps with no issues.

When it doesn't make sense it's usually something stupid/obvious and you're overthinking it.

#10 Drakien

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:06 AM

This is what my legacy is doing-


I will try the spark plug wires in the morning. But this is from earlier after switching the timing pulley.

#11 s'ko

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:32 PM

Alright to catch everyone up to speed-
I dropped a 2.2l motor into where my 2.5l was. I did this because the 2.5l had a rod knock. I am using the 2.5l computer and harness, everything is plugged in. When I attempt to start it, it will just turn over, and over, and over. But will not start. I am stumped. I know the coil pack is good, it worked on my old motor. The spark plug wires are assumed good, and the plugs are good also, because they were just replaced in the other motor and it ran. I have looked through the repair manual at the troubleshooting page. The only thing I think it could possibly be is a clogged injector or bad injector. Or possibly I should just get a 2.2l computer and stick it in?

The 2.5l was DOHC. the 2.2l is out of a 96 or 97 with roughly 68k miles. *USDM motor*

What would cause it to not start? :confused:


I don't thinking changing computers will do anything. it looks like from the wiring diagrams the 97 EJ25 and the 97 EJ22 have the same wire routing. It might help to use the EJ25 engine harness if you aren't using that.

Are you able to pull engine codes?

No spark could be the result of a bad crank angle sensor.
Also check your grounds to make sure that are good.

BW

#12 Drakien

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 03:25 PM

Yeah come to find out it was the earlier 91-95ish engine.
But I am using the 2.5 harness.

I am trying to pull the codes but I cant get my hands on an OBDII code reader. I am going to loan one from Autozone after I get payed.

As for spark I am not sure if that is the problem yet, I have not had a chance to get out and check it, The weather has been crap.

#13 s'ko

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 10:01 AM

Yeah come to find out it was the earlier 91-95ish engine.
But I am using the 2.5 harness.

I am trying to pull the codes but I cant get my hands on an OBDII code reader. I am going to loan one from Autozone after I get payed.

As for spark I am not sure if that is the problem yet, I have not had a chance to get out and check it, The weather has been crap.


good engine since it's non-inteference :banana:
ok let's start from scratch.
1) what engine harness did you use. 91-95 is OBD1 engine. the short block should but there might be some differences in the way the engine harness plug is hooked up.
2) You also might have some problems with the cam angle sensor. IIRC, the cam sprocket on the EJ25 are plastic and the EJ22 OBD1s are metal. The metal bit on the cam sprocket might be located in the wrong position so it's not sending a signal at the right time and thus no spark. I have a set of both at home, will take a look at it tonight and post what I find.
3) the timing gear might also be different in where the spokes are orientated. I might have a OBD1 gear as well. this would also create a no spark situation

remember, the 3 components of a running motor, compression, fuel (air/gas) spark. looks like you have the first two. Of course you can always get a can of starter fluid and shot it into the intake to see if it will light up. If not, then you have to focus on spark.

BW

#14 Drakien

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 01:13 AM

Thanks!

1. I am using the 2.5 harness.

2. The locations of the senders on the pulleys are slightly different, so I changed out for the plastic ones.

3. Not sure on the timing Gear. As far as I can tell they are the same, but I have not had a chance to compare the two side to side.

Compression seems good, there is gas being delivered, as for spark I am not so sure of, I am going to be looking into that. Now to find a few minutes to diagnose it.

Thanks for your help, I will update with whats going on. :slobber:

#15 ShawnW

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 05:12 PM

Is the fuel line that comes out of the fuel filter going to the top connection on the intake manifold?

#16 s'ko

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:44 PM

something else just came to mind.

Is the EJ25 DOHC or SOHC.
If it's DOHC, the cam sensor and crank sensors might be responding to where it should be in the DOHC and not the SOHC. This might be what is causing the problem.

Having an OBD2 EJ22 ECU might help to clear things up, but doesn't sound like you have one lying around.

BW

#17 Drakien

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:56 PM

Yes the fuel line from the filter is going to the top connector on the manifold. :)

I went to the pick and pull and got me a computer from a 2.2 legacy. The engine looks identical to the 2.2 I have in my car now. I also got a new set of timing pulleys, just in case. I spent all morning swapping out parts with no luck. :(

I checked for spark, there is definitely spark.

I am so mind boggled right now. I don't know what else to try.

Sorry for bugging everyone with this mess, I just want to get it back on the road! lol

#18 s'ko

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 10:47 PM

might be timing.

can you confirm fuel?

pull a plug and smell for gas.

If that's the case then we are dealing w/compression.

Keep at it.

BW

#19 Drakien

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:46 PM

All the timing marks line up with each other. The lines on the timing belt line up with the marks also. So I believe it is properly timed.

I was going to shoot some starting fluid into the intake tomorrow morning to see what happens.

I hope its not compression, I don't want to pull the motor again lol

#20 Gloyale

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:15 AM

Tested for fuel pressure?

have you checked for power on the injector wires?

Have you probed them while cranking to see if the signal is pulsing?

And have you placed a screwdriver on them and put it to you're ear while cranking to see if the injector actually clicks from the signal?

#21 Drakien

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:21 PM

It sprays when I unhook the fuel lines, so I think it is building up pressure.
Nope I have not tested the injectors at all.

Is it possible I might need to do a cam crank sync?

#22 s'ko

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 09:21 AM

It sprays when I unhook the fuel lines, so I think it is building up pressure.
Nope I have not tested the injectors at all.

Is it possible I might need to do a cam crank sync?


When I mean compression, I am talking about having the timing right.

This is what I am concerned about. The EJ25 is a DOHC motor and the ECU will be trying to fire for the DOHC cam sequence. Not sure how things are affected when you put a SOHC on there, most likely the valves will not be opening at the right time b/c of this. You might want put the original SOHC cam pulleys on and try cranking it.

Keep us posted.

BW

#23 Drakien

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 12:32 PM

I put the 2.2 SOHC ECM in the car, along with the pulleys, that is where I am at right now. It is just turning over. :(

#24 s'ko

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 06:47 PM

What year is the EJ22 ECU?

BW

#25 Drakien

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 07:31 PM

I think its a 93-95 legacy with a manual.

I got another suggestion from a guy off a local forum, he suggested towing it to a suby dealership and having them write the vin and program it into the ECM.




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