mikeanderso

Is there any way to troubleshoot the valve? The repair manual details how to replace it, but how can I determine if it's bad? Mike A.

Blitz, Thanks for the reply. That toyota article was the kind of general info I was looking for, just enough to get my mind wrapped around. The factory repair manual from subaru has procedures for servicing the canister, as well as the vent control solenoid valve, and the purge control solenoid valve. I'll look those over a bit. Now to figure what hose goes where... When I hooked up the 2.2, I have a neighbor with a '95 legacy with the exact engine I was putting into my car (very fortunate coincidence), so I hooked up all the hoses to match his engine. I had a couple of "extra" components (I think the vent control solenoid is in the engine compartment of the '98, and was nowhere to be found on the '95, but I can't remember exactly..). Perhaps it's time to park the cars next to each other, and trace where the hoses go. Come to think of it, there's another guy on my street with a '99 2.5 DOHC... Maybe I'll try that this weekend. Thanks for the help! I'll post how it goes. Mike A.

Hi Blitz, Okay, looking over the tech manual, the canister for the 2.5 is located in front of the fuel tank, while the canister on the 2.2 engine is located in the engine bay. When I put in the 2.2, there were two barbed fittings on the front of the engine that I connected into the two fittings on the underhood canister, and didn't think much more about it. I did nothing to the canister under the car (didn't even know it was there...) The post from Blitz makes sense, in that the canister in back is collecting fumes but is not purged, and the canister under the hood is purged but not collecting fumes. Perhaps the best way to remedy the situation is to disconnect the underhood canister, but what do I need to connect to purge the canister in the back? I'm not familiar enough with the plumbing of the evap system on the engines to know what hose does what, and goes where. Time to learn, I guess. I'll dive into my manual tonight, anybody have any words of advice? Always more to learn... Thanks! Mike A.

Hello Everyone, About a year ago head gaskets on my '98 2.5L DOHC OBW went out. After checking this board, and looking at my options, I decided to replace the troublesome engine with a rebuilt 2.2 from CCR rather than replace the gaskets and risk it happening again. Once I got the right engine (had a mixup with CCR, original engine had an impreza intake manifold on it), the swap went pretty easy. The engine runs great. I have one question I need some help on. The 2.2 fuel evap system is plumbed for a charcoal canister in the engine bay, while the 2.5 is not. When I put in the 2.2, I bought a new canister from subaru, fabbed a mounting bracket for it, and hooked it up to the engine (I didn't like the idea of hoses that went nowhere). I'm now getting a CEL, and my mechanic tells me it's because of the evap system. My question to the board is what are the differences between the fuel evap system for the 2.5 DOHC engine compared to the 2.2? My 2.2 is from a '95 legacy, so it has EGR heads if that helps better define what kind of engine I have now. I'm curious how the two systems work, and how to start troubleshooting. I think I recall hearing somewhere that the 2.5 DOHC engine cars have a canister by the fuel tank rather than in the compartment. If that's the case, I have two canisters. The obvious question is should I disable one of them, (one in the engine compartment is probably easiest to get to) and if so, how should I plumb the hoses to make the system happy. Thanks, Mike A.

actually, the light hasn't cleared yet, it came on again. I unhooked the battery for 30 seconds, thinking that should clear it, right? When I had the light checked at the shop, it was the knock sensor. However, I had an exhaust leak that might have been causing the CEL to come on. Now, the leak is fixed and the light is still on. I did have to splice some wiring to hook up my '98 knock sensor to fit with the '95 harness, so I'm hoping it's not that. I'll get the light checked again on monday, maybe. Mike A.

Hello everyone, This will probably be my last post in this thread, and that is a good thing. Went to a shop and had the CEL (thanks avk) checked, it was the knock sensor. Turns out I also had an exhaust leak, I didn't get the bolts connecting the exhaust manifold to the cat converter section of the muffler pipe on tight enough. I went home, dropped the manifold, and tightened them up. Unhooked the battery to reset the CEL, and everything is fine. Lot's quieter too ;-) Next item was the shimmy in the rear end. Got the car up on the lift, and the cords are showing on the right rear tire. I was hoping to get these tires to last until inspection time in august, but time for a new set of tires. Replaced the fluid in the clutch the other night, the car drives, and it is nice. My observations about the 2.2: It doesn't have the bottom end torque that the 2.5 has. Once you get the 2.2 up above 3.5k, it pulls just as well as the 2.5 though. It's not quite as quick from a dead start, so adjust left turn driving habits accordingly. 5th gear seems to be very low for this engine. I know the tranny was probably designed to mate up with a 2.5, 5th is great for level driving on the freeway, but if there's any hint of a hill, or passing requires a shift down to fourth. Related to the bottom end torque issue. All in all, I'm pleased with the motor. I'm not interested in going fast, just going forever. Now, hopefully this engine does that for me. Thanks for everybody's help, on an unrelated note, anyone know if the lightbulb inside the radio that backlights the clock/station display can be replaced? Mike A.

Lots of good info there avk. I talked to the counter parts guy about the charcoal canister, and I decided that since the engine was designed to have one in the front, I might as well put one in. What is a CEL? I'm going to try to get into a shop today after work and get the check engine light diagnosed. While there, i'll see if I can get them to put the car up on the lift to check what is causing the shimmy in the rear end. It feels like a rubber bushing somewhere in the rear has gone out so things are loose and wobbly. Bit, by bit... Mike A.

Hi everyone, I said I would post as the day went on with any questions I had. No news, is good news, right? I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but in my rush to get everything connected saturday, I neglected to connect the ground wire onto the intake manifold. Did that, and a couple of other little things, and she fired right up. Runs great. I took it for a drive thie evening, clutch pedal was a bit soft, so I had my neighbor help me replace the clutch fluid. Much nicer now. The check engine light came on, and stayed on so now I need to go to a shop and get hooked up to a computer to diagnose why it's on. I've also got an exhaust leak somewhere, i think as the engine sounds a bit loud, expecially when you let off the throttle, and the slight shimmy that was in the rear end before I replaced the engine, well it's still there. I was hoping that just letting it sit in the driveway would make it go away ;-) So, in summary, the 2.2 swap into a 2.5 car DOES WORK! Here are the gems of wisdom I would pass on to anyone that wants to do it: 1. Specify that you want a '95 engine. From what I understand, 95 heads are one year only as they have EGR. You need EGR in order to use the 2.5 ECM. The folks at CCR could tell you more about that than I could... 2. SPECIFY THAT YOU WANT A LEGACY 2.2 MANIFOLD ON THE MOTOR. I have no idea if the impreza and legacy 2.2 manifolds are the same, but I can tell you authoritatively that the 1.8 and 2.2 manifolds are much different. Having the wrong parts on this motor cost me an incredible amount of time to rectify. I had to learn the hard way that wiring, and plumbing of air lines into the various sensors on the manifold are different. The EGR pipe is a different length for imprezas and legacies. Found that out last saturday. All of my problems could have been eliminated if I would have had a legacy manifold on the car in the first place. 3. You will need a charcoal canister. the 2.5 cars did not come with them, and the 2.2 manifolds are plumbed for one. You will need to also fab a mounting bracket for it, although the stock subaru one might work if you can get your hands on one, I didn't try it. 4. When you get the motor rebuilt, get the wiring harness for the 2.2 motor, and the sensors that came on that engine. Your core 2.5 harness will not swap straight across with the new 2.2. I'll keep everyone posted as to what the check engine light holds for me. Maybe there's just a bad connection somewhere. Thanks to everyone for their help. I'm a little embarassed that the solution was as simple as it was, but I'm not ashamed to admit it when I make a stupid mistake. Mike A.

To clarify: The cooling fans (on the radiator) would switch on when the key was in the off position. that's because the temp gauge was pegged on high. Cougar is right, in that the fans can run independant of key position. To get the fans to turn off, I would move the key to accessory position, and they would switch off. When I move the key back to off position, temperature gauge continues to read high, ABS, and oil pressure lights remain on. It was then that I tried the cooling (internal/heater) fans to see what was working and they turned on. Interestingly enough, the radio would not turn on with the key in the off position, while the fans would. I cannot confirm or deny if the accessories turn off when the key is between positions. If it does, then it would imply that there is something wrong with the ignition switch, as mentioned by cougar. If it does not, it would imply that power is getting to the accessories independant of the ignition switch, by some other route. That would be bad. I'm taking a day off work tomorrow to try and get the car running. I will be posting my progress, and questions as the day wears on, i'm sure. I will see if the accessories work when the key is between positions, and take a more accurate accounting of what I can and cannot turn on when the key is in off position. That might help me pinpoint where the problem is. I'm also going to call CCR to see if Rick or emily have ever run into something like this before. Thanks everyone, you will be hearing alot from me tomorrow! Mike A.

Thanks for the replies everybody, I think cougar has a point, I can track which relays have power and such to the ends of the harness, but the trick is to figure out what is different now with the new engine that wasn't there before. Once you figure out what's different, you can track through the wiring diagram how that difference would cause the things I'm describing. Work the cause, not the symptoms. Problem is, what's the problem? First of all, the 2.5 ECM and the 2.2 ECM are different. The pinouts for the wires coming from the firewall harness into the ECM are different on the two wiring diagrams. What is the same between the two harnesses is the wiring that goes from the engine harness to the three connectors that connect the engine harness to the firewalll harness. For example,for the 2.2, the engine coolant temperature sensor connects through pin #5 of the engine to firewall connector E2. This wire from the firewall then connects into pin 29 of the ECM. On the 2.5, engine coolant temperature sensor connects again through pin #5 of engine to firewall connector E2. the wire from the firewall then connects to pin 22 of the ECM. Since I have not changed any wiring downstream from the engine, the wires from the engine all go through the same three electrical connectors (E1,E2,and E3) in the exact same way. Once through those connectors, things get different between the two cars, but from the engine it is the same. That is why I believe the swap should work. As far as the ECM knows, it is still getting the same signals from the same sensors. now, for the nitty gritty details. I did clip the 2.2 wiring harness knock sensor wire to swap electrical connectors so I could re-use the knock sensor from my 2.5 motor. they both connect through one wire, but use different shaped connectors. Wires were clipped, joined with solderless crimp connectors, soldered anyway, then insulated with shrink wrap. The connections are solid, I'm sure of that. Also, the wires from the crankshaft position sensor got smashed under the intake manifold, and i had to do the same drill on those wires. I could believe that there will be a slight change in the resisitance of those wires due to my soldering. I dont' think that could be a source of my problems, but I figure now is the time to confess all my sins and get all the info out there :-) Right now, my area of study is the power supply routing section of the '98 wiring diagram. Got to figure out how current from the battery is getting to the headlights, fans, etc. when the key is in my pocket. This post kind of turned into a big ramble. Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming. Mike A.

hello everyone, I'm having some electrical issues, and I'm hoping y'all can help. Background: car is a '98 legacy wagon. head gaskets on 2.5 motor went at 109,000. Rather than replace the gaskets, and have them go again in 60K, I decided to put in a 2.2. Called CCR, and ordered a 2.2 from a '95. The motor originally came with an impreza manifold, and wiring harness, so I had to deal with those issues, if anybody's interested with that story, the post is here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14940&goto=newpost Anyway, CCR sent me a '95 legacy 2.2 manifold, and got it all bolted on today. As far as parts, and electrical connectors for, the '95 2.2 is a straight out swap with the 2.5. I checked the wiring diagrams, and everything goes back into the ECM the same way. Okay, so new motor is in, and everything is connected up. Refilled radiator, power steering pump, and dumped in 4.5 quarts of oil into the new engine. Dumped a gallon or so of gas in the gas tank, connected the battery, and then unplugged the coil so that I could crank the motor using the starter to run the oil pump, water pump, and steering pump without ignition. crank, crank , crank. Reconnected the coil, and tried to start. Won't. Here's some strange things that are going on. I don't have a check engine light on, so I think all the sensors are hooked up right. Here's the wierd part. I turned the key to lock position and removed the key, but the following dash indicator lights stayed on: ABS, oil pressure. With the key out, I can still turn on headlights, and the interior vent fan. That shouldn't be happening. It's like the key is in, and in acc position, but the key is out. Hmm. Also, the temperature gauge was pegged on H, so the radiator fans triggered on. If I cycled the key between lock and acc, I could get them to switch off. I unhooked the - terminal on the battery so it doesn't drain all night long. So, in summary, here's what I've got: 2.2 in a 2.5 car. wiring all lines up and double checked. No check engine light. motor will not start. When key is removed, I've still got electricity everywhere.? Any ideas? This one is weird, and I'll take any suggestions that are out there. Thanks! Mike A.

another option is to put in a 2.2 to replace the 2.5. That's what I'm doing right now, but I haven't got it working yet, so wait a bit. If you do it, you need to get a 2.2 from a '95 legacy. the '95 has one year heads with EGR, which you need to fit into a 2.5 car. I assume you will probably buy your rebuild from CCR. Make sure you specify the correct manifold (legacy or impreza) for your engine. the legacy to legacy swap goes straight across. I'm posting with some other questions in a second here, if you're interested in the 2.2 swap, search for some other posts I've put up. Mike A.

Hello everyone, the clearcoat on the hood scoop of my 98 outback wagon is chipping off. the paint on the rest of the hood is fine, just the scoop. Anyone know if you can separate the scoop from the hood without destroying the hood? If so, How? Thanks! Mike A.

thanks for the tip avk. I will talk to CCR about that next time before the manifold gets shipped out.

from conversations with the dealer, and from info on this board, I believe a 95 motor is obd2 I talked with Rick and Emily at CCR today, and I decided that I'd like to get a legacy 2.2 intake manifold to replace the 1.8 impreza manifold on my motor at the current time. I could probably get the franken-motor setup to eventually work, but then in a year from now when I need to fix something I'll pop the hood, and have absolutely no recollection of how I made anything go together. I'd rather have a full '95 legacy 2.2 motor, that way I can just use the subaru tech manual for the '95 legacy to make any repairs. They will find a manifold for me and ship it out when they find it. I'll post when the next chapter begins! Mike A.

Okay, here is an update from this weekends events. for those that are counting, this is three weekends in a row, in addition to some middle of the week time. First off, checked the intake manifold. It has the "spacers" between the block and the manifold, so I am left to assume it is a 1.8 manifold. So now I have a franken-engine with a 2.2 bottom end, and a 1.8 top end. Snapped the '95 legacy wiring harness onto the motor, I had to modify the connectors for the knock sensor, and the throttle air control solenoid valve to make them work. Put most of the stuff back together in the engine compartment, radiator, A/C, alternator, blah, blah blah. I still have a problem I need help with. There is a lot of rubber air line plumbing on the right (FIF) side of the engine that the 2.5 motor does not have. There are also 2 sensors tucked under the right side of the manifold, between the manifold and the block that have rubber tubes running into and out of them, but I have no electrical connectors for them. They are both 2 wire connectors, and both have 2 rubber hoses coming in from various parts of the intake manifold. On the inside of the right fender, the legacy has two electrical/air sensor looking things, I wonder if they are mounted to the fender on the legacy, and under the manifold on the impreza? Anyway, if anyone can identify what they are, that would be a first step. Then I can figure out how to re-plumb the motor to by-pass them. At least that is my plan right now... The most frustrating thing about this whole thing is that my neighbor has a '95 legacy. The more I look at his motor, the more I'm convinced that swapping a '95 legacy 2.2 into a '98 legacy would be straightforward. The wiring is the same, plumbing is the same, etc. That's what I thought I would be getting from CCR. Instead, I have spent 3 weekends on what could have been a 1 weekend job. Here's my list of where CCR, in my opinion, dropped the ball. 1. They knew this motor was going into a legacy. In their defense, this swap is not a common one. Most people go the other way. However, they should have known (Hopefully) that there are big differences between impreza manifolds and legacy manifolds. 2. Wiring harness. This should have been the first tip that maybe this manifold doesn't fit right into a legacy. The 2 16 pin conector is exclusively a 1.8 thing. a 2.2 motor should never be fitted with that harness (unless it is going into a 1.8 impreza, and they knew it was going into a legacy) Let's make it clear here that I am not on a witch hunt against the folks at CCR. CCR has been great with helping me out in solving all my problems. I have no complaint with their willingness to help, and with their customer service. I am just a bit annoyed that I have had to tap into that customer service. If I would have received the correct motor in the first place, I would never have had to give them a call to straighten all this out. The bad thing for them is that I've been looking under the hood at '95 legacies realizing what could have been..... Anyway, I will call them today and see what we can work out, and I will keep everyone posted. Mike A.

Hey everyone, thanks for the offer of the wiring harness lmdew. CCR found a harness off a '95 legacy that was put in the mail today. I hopefully will get it in time for this weekend, and put it on. I'll let everyone know how it all comes together. Mike A.

How would I be able to tell which manifold it has on it? What is the difference between the 1.8 and 2.2 manifolds? Mike A.

hello everyone, here's a recap of this weekend's events. Pulled the harness off the 2.5 friday night. Pulled the 1.8 harness of of the new motor saturday morning, and started connecting up the harness out of the 2.5. All the wiring lines up right, but some of the connectors (idle control solenoid, throttle position sensor, and coil) have connectors that are slightly different. Rather than start cutting and splicing, I decided to wait until monday to talk to CCR. Sigh. That's two weekends gone. Talked to Emily at CCR today. Their bad on hooking the wrong harness on the motor. Her theory is that the motor (a 2.2) came from an impreza that had been a 1.8 from the factory. At some point in time, a previous owner pulled the 1.8 motor and put in the 2.2. the 1.8 harness was put on the 2.2 motor so that it would work with the car. The motor was pulled and ended up at CCR to be rebuilt. After it was completed, the wiring harness that it had come in with got put back onto it. CCR is going to find me a '95 legacy 2.2 harness to put onto the motor, and hopefully ship out to me ASAP. lessons learned: 1.8 wiring harness is different from 2.2 harness. Make sure you mention that when ordering an engine. I'm a bit frustrated with the whole process, this has been much more compicated that it should have been, and I'm still waiting for the right parts to get here so I can drive the car. If I start thinking about how easy this could have been in the first place with the right wiring, it just gets me frustrated, so I try not to think about it :-) CCR has so far been very helpful with straightening it out, but I'll reserve final judgent until that 2.2 harness arrives on my front door ;-) Mike A.

okay, the number off the flat machined spot just left (FIF) of where the transmission bell and the engine meet is 038742. The numbers at the top of the engine case where the tranny bell and engine meet are 89986 and 87787. I went through the engine wiring diagrams tonight for the '95 Legacy EJ22 and the '98 Legacy EJ25. The connections through the 16, 12, and 6 pin connectors to the engine are exactly the same. the wires connect differently into the ECM, but an engine harness from a 98 legacy is the same as that from a 95 legacy. Now I'm thinking I should be able to move the engine harness from my core motor over to the EJ22 motor, and send the 1.8 impreza harness back with my core motor to CCR. That's assuming that the '95 motor I have is compatible with a '95 legacy. Are there any electrical differences between legacy and impreza 2.2 motors that might be a problem? Lots to learn.. Mike A.

went to the subaru dealer tonight to pick up some parts for the swap, and talked to the service guys. They pulled out a 95 impreza service manual, and the 2.2 wiring diagram has the 16, 12, and 6 pin conectors. The 1.8 has the two 16's. They did not have paper copies of the '94 or earlier, and the guy didn't want to go find them. So, my question is this: For a known OBD1 2.2 motor (pre-95), does it use the two 16 pin connectors? or is the two 16 pin connectors strictly a 1.8 thing? On a separate note, tonight I'm going to go over and compare the 95 2.2 legacy wiring diagram with the 98 2.5 wiring diagram to see if I can use the harness off of my core motor. If anyone out there has a pre '95 impreza 2.2 motor, and could see how many connectors there are between the engine and firewall harness it would satisfy my curiosity! Right now my hypothesis is that the type of connectors used depends on engine size, regardless of OBD. Come on, prove me wrong! Mike A.

Just thought if this, maybe what I have is an early '95 impreza motor with OBD1. The root question now becomes: Does 2 16 pin connectors mean OBD1, or does it mean 1.8? In order to prove that, I'd need to know if say a '96 or '97 impreza (OBD2) with a 1.8 motor has the 2 16 pin connectors, or the 16, 12, 6 combo. Anybody out there with a post '95 impreza with a 2.2, or a 1.8 that could chime in would be great. Still learning... Mike A.

Okay, so it looks like I've got a 2.2 engine with a 1.8 harness. I will get the engine # tonight to make sure. Thanks everybody, I will let y'all know what I decide to do next... Mike A.

I will get the code this evening, I'm at work now. Hmm. would I be able to swap the harness from my 2.5 core motor over to the 2.2 and make it work? I guess I'll have to look into what differences there are between the 95 and 98 wiring harnesses. Ultimately, when Rick and Emily get back at CCR, I'd like to either get a '95 legacy harness to put on the motor, or move mine over from the 2.5. Before I start doing any of that, though, I'd like to find out a little bit more about this motor. Thanks! Mike A.

Hey AVK, The engine case is stamped EJ22. So what you're telling me is that I have a 2.2 engine with a 1.8 harness, maybe? Hmm..... Thanks everyone, keep it comin! Mike A.