rtp373

That's handy to know... just curious if anyone thought that starting/shutting off a cold engine, down in the 20's outside, could lead it to flooding out when it is shut off.

This is a first... it was in the 30's, 02 OBW was in the garage, went out to make a quick trip and the car cranked normally but didn't didn't start right up like it usually does. I let go of the key for a couple of seconds, and tried again, and after 15 sec of continuous cranking, I could hear the engine trying to fire more and more, the cranking sped up and then it sputtered to life. Very similar to flooding. It then ran fine from that point on. Idles great, has all of its power. The only thing I can think of is that yesterday I moved the car out of the garage without warming up the engine. It was in the low 20's yesterday. At the end of the day, I put it back in the garage, again without warming it, and this time since I put a load on it, it revved up on its own and when I got into the garage, like 20 seconds later, I shut it off again... is it possible that since it was cold and was running at a higher idle, it flooded out when I shut it off? Curious what any of you thought. RTP373

I got a deal today on Pirelli P3000's, $79 ea with free rotation. Spent about $420 today. 85,000 mi tread warranty, much higher than the p6's. Don't get p6's, they are a performance tire, very soft, gone in 32,000 miles. Others had the same complaint, should have done research. See what happens this time around!

Hey, need help deciding on what tires to put on my 02 OBW. The original Bridgestone Potenzas went just over 50,000 miles. I only got 34,000 miles out of the Pirelli P6's. Was pretty good about rotations, but had a slight alignment adjustment last year, wasn't much. What'd be a good model/brand for longer wear & still have reasonable traction? I'm in Maine so traction is important! Thanks.

The original clutch in my 2002 outback behaved just like you mentioned. Once you had engaged/disengaged it a few times, it'd come out of it. People on the board had a number of gimmicks to get them by like riding the clutch once a week for several extra seconds. It'd stop doing the cold "shutter" for a few days, but it'd always come back. The cold and/or humidity always made it worse.

I wouldn't put up with it... I feel your pain. I'm not familiar with the friction plate that a '92 Loyale would use, but even if it is a different size and shape than one used in the newer outback wagons, I wouldn't doubt it's made out of the same friction material components they'd be using on the current line of cars. I've been told Subaru took care of the problem in 2003, although some owners of 2003 Subaru's even complained (perhaps some clutches were leftover and used from 2002?? dunno). I found a tech bulletin on this site, but it was nearly 2 years ago, that some generous person posted that talked about this problem and the solution was to use 2003 model year components. The friction disc part number was different than the one used in my 2002 Outback. Others noticed the same thing. Perhaps even if you had your clutch replaced recently, it was an older stock item made during the era when Subaru was having these problems (end of the 1990's to 2002). Unless your Loyale can accept the clutch plate mentioned in the tech bulletin, it'd be difficult to determine if what you get is like the "new" one or not. Good luck.

It's really too bad cuz it's such a nice car. Well, now that I've gotten my clutch and head gaskets replaced, that should cover the big fixes. Just today the Subie came thru for us. My wife had no issues getting up out of our snow-covered driveway and passed 5 accidents into work and was able to drive confidently w/o sliding around, etc (point - 4 out of the 5 accidents included a mid or full-sized SUV, driven assumably by someone who was OVER confident). It's an easy reminder of why we bought the car in the first place! RTP

Wow, that's pretty scary... I'm glad my issue was resolved with a behavior change. I've never had that problem again once I gave it a second to set in. RTP

Do a search on clutches on this site- the threads sometimes have over 100 responses. It was this site that saved my sanity when I realized I wasn't dreaming there was something wrong. Some blessed soul posted a copy of the tech bulletin subaru sent to dealers a couple years ago and once I mentioned this to my dealer, they made good. I had b**ched about from 3000 mi to 20,000 when it was replaced. They used a replacement "kit" which used the same parts as appeared in the '03 model year clutch assemblies. It was the new '03 clutch plate and some simple adapter studs & other hardware. Nothing too complex. Many savy Subaru owners here have replaced their clutches with after-market ones and swear by them - may not be a bad thing.

It looks as though the engine did not have to be removed. They did it in less than a day at the dealer. They had to take out quite a bit but sounds like it appears there's adequate space once some surrounding devices are removed. Anyone else have input on this?

Yes, it was under warranty. No cost to me. If you browse around this message board, looks like Subaru will help people out in most circumstances, even if you're over 60,000mi. RTP

Ok, at 54,000 mi my 02 OBW started smelling like coolant at the stop signs or if it idled in the driveway. Found some loose hose clamps, took care of that issue, but the smell was still there. Suspiciously, I took it in for an oil change at my dealership and asked them to check it out. Sure enough, had the classic external coolant leak on both sides. They immediately ordered new head gaskets and a week later they changed everything out in less than a day. Even gave me a 2005 OBW for a loaner. That '05 was some sweet, I tell ya. But I'm back to my '02 5-speed, and that's just fine. I don't have $26k to play with at the moment. I

I'll have my new clutch 2 years this coming July. have put over 34,000 mi on it and it operates like a charm. The new clutch package from '03 did the trick.

I neglected to follow up on this thread... The hesitation issue went away. I'm 99% sure it's because when I start the engine I let it come back down to an idle before taking off. Those times I had problems I would touch the gas and let out the clutch as soon as the engine fired up, usually after it was warmed up. I learned that the computer recalibrates the "idle" position of the throttle via the position sensor every time you restart the car. I believe I was interrupting this process by taking off without giving it a "second" and my throttle position was zeroed "above" the real setpoint later on. What would happen is there would be a dead spot until I had rotated the throttle body into what the computer was the position just above idle and as a result the engine would jump or delay accelerating. Just a theory, but haven't had ANY issues since I just backed off and let her idle a quick second. RTP373

Had a new subaru clutch put in my '02 outback wagon a year after I bought it new. Have over 25,000 miles on it and it works like a champ. they fixed the clutch problem starting in the '03 model years. others on this board had similar threads at the time, thank god I found this board at the time. in fact, if you search thru the archives someone posted a copy of a tech bulletin giving all of the new part numbers. i took this bulletin to my dealer and they agreed to replace it under warranty. no longer hate the car, but still wish I had an automatic when I tow my utility trailer. god forbid, we bought a house with a steep driveway later on. RTP373

Ah, I see you're in Australia. For whatever reason, they don't give us low range in the states. Ever since they went to the AWD in the early-mid 90's, they got rid of the low range.

Mine has no low range, unfortunately. I seriously wish it did.

Was curious if anyone had a friend/spouse who had the CR-V. Was curious how good it handled in the snow compared to a Subaru. True, I've always wondered if it was really too late if it kicked in after you lose traction. I suspect it's only really useful starting out.

It's a very simple car to shift, especially with a decent clutch. Of course the nice part is all of the heavy moving with the utility trailer, sometimes having to pull it thru the snow to my father-in-law's barn, was all on the old clutch. I've been very gentle on this one! Next one's an automatic, though.

I had a hitch put on at UHaul back when I bought my 02 Outback Wagon. They hardwired the harness into my driver's side taillight. I store the hitch in the area by the spare tire and pop it in the tow bar when needed. Made many trips to storage while moving across town to a new home as well as hauling things to and from my father-in-law's barn which is over an hour away on back roads. Haul trash to the dump weekly. This is a 4 x 8 trailer as well. Advise is to just go easy when starting out, 1st gear isn't all that low and if I over-rev to start up with a load, I'll be greeted immediately by that distinguished scent de clutch. Just rev the motor enough to keep it from stalling if you're loaded. My having a steep driveway adds to the adventure. Sometimes I wish I had the automatic for ease of towing and backing up a trailer, but I've learned to work with it. Goes fine and am at 40,000 mi.

Had a conversation w/ someone regarding Cr-V realtime 4wd vs Subaru's AWD. What make's Subaru's AWD system stand out among other competitors? Is the manual tranny just go to a center differential that splits 50/50? Does it adjust the power output to the front/rear under different conditions? Is the automatic tranny transferring 60/40 and adjusts as needed? this person thought the cr-v's system was a bit hokey as it just kicked in when needed, was just a front wheel drive system for the mostpart. thought it was a little too late if you were already spinning. I also heard the 4wd in a honda cr-v only works in forward gear-not reverse, is that true or not? On my 02 OBW, I know the AWD works flawlessly and is awesome, I can say that much. RTP

I couldn't believe my ears the other day....on Cartalk (yes I listen to NPR sometimes), a caller said her clutch "chattered" (02 Forester). They responded that she may have done something while breaking it in, but one of the hosts disagreed and thought she should contact Subaru. I wrote in mentioning all of the stuff I learned on the internet and my own experience. After all I went thru on my '02 OBW, I felt sorry for her. My new clutch is still awesome 18,000 miles later, not one instance of chatter. And it was under warranty at the time. Still love my Subie, just wish with my utility trailer sometimes that I had an automatic. Just have learned to take it easy and if I'm on an incline with a load starting out, just have to get that clutch out and get the motor above idle, just enough so it doesn't stall and not so much that I start smelling friction material burning. A fine line with that tall 1st gear and 4 pretty good sized tires. Again, I owe my happiness to this message board. Had the clutch continued to bother me, that car would've at best been traded in for an automatic. RTP

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/usmb/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=993&highlight=clutch+bulletin copy n paste the above link into your address bar to get to the original thread I started last year when I was looking into getting the clutch changed out. lots of info there. there were other threads before it that went on forever. do a search on clutch and see the results. there are plenty of us who went thru this and now I love my subie SO much and get to appreciate it for what it really is. especially in Maine winters and a hilly driveway. if you don't want to deal with it, trade up for the automatic, otherwise, prepare your explanations when passengers say "what the hell was that?!"

my apologies for not getting back to you, I will find the print-out and send it. it will be the same clutch disc as appears in the 2003 models. i believe there are some different bolts and some adapter, but i will check the work order.

No hood deflector, roof rack is factory-mounted and hasn't been altered since owning the car. I have noticed it since my last oil change at the dealer, when I had the tires rotated. Maybe there's an off-balance tire that's more noticeable in the back? I did a test and while coasting it was still there in this speed range. If I just pass thru this range I don't hear it, it's only if I stay at that speed range for more than a couple of seconds. I hear it more in 4th gear at this speed but I given the rumble of the subaru engine, it may just be harmonizing. Thanks for the insight, I need to take it in again in the next couple of weeks for another oil change and to check it over before 36,000 mi. Ryan