2Feathers

I recently had a frustrating problem which I think I have finally cured (keeping my fingers crossed) after receiving some great help from fellow forumites. You can follow my odyssey here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=96884 Because I was so haphazardly trying things, and mixing potential cures, I still have no idea which suggestion actually fixed the problem, but is seems to be gone. About half way through the ordeal, I started wishing I had made some notes to remind me what I had already tried, in what order, and noted what had obviously worked and what didn't. All this guessing and thinking, "Didn't I already try that thing that Cougar suggested?" and, "Did I do that exactly the way Nipper instructed, and was that before or after that thing EVOthis said to do?" only served to increase my frustration. So consider this advice (especially if you're as mechanically challenged as me): make some notes along the way. Not only will it help you track the successes with the failures, but it will also help you remember what you've tried and what changes (if any) occurred after each step so you can explain those things to the people trying to help. Some minor detail may be just the tidbit of information the person trying to help you needs to figure out the problem. Yeah, I may be getting a little anal here, but this would have definitely helped me and probably saved some time and frustration. Oh! And make sure you conclude your thread with, well, a conclusion. Tell everyone what finally worked for you. Anyway, thanks again to all who helped! Signed, 2Feathers (The Anal Retentive Novice Non-Mechanic)

Thanks nipper... I went back and tried your suggestion. I took all the brake light bulbs out, and pushed the brake pedal, and the front park lights did NOT come on. Went back to replace the bulbs and noticed I had somehow left one of the signal light sockets empty (no bulb). So I replaced that bulb as well. Voila! Everything seemd to be working correctly now. The center brake light stays OFF until the brakes are applied, and the park lights stay off as well... So I still don't really know if I did anything to fix this or just somehow exorcised the demon by accident. Either way, I hope its fixed permanently (or at least as permanently as one can fix a 15-year-old car with 170K miles). I'll still be a little paranoid for a few days, worried that there may still be something going on to drain the battery. Can you all reasure me, or is this a legitimate concern? At any rate, I greatly appreciate everyone's helpful advice. I'll let you know if the demon moves back in...

Okay, now its getting weird... Here is what I've tried so far tonight... 1) I replaced all of the tail/brake lights with new bulbs. Double filament (#1157) for the tail/brake lights, and single filament (#1156) for the signal/back-up lights.) 2) I pulled the center relay from above the interior fuse box and moved one of the side ones over to replace it. I tried to check the relay with a multimeter, but wasn't sure how. (When I touched the leads to the two silver metal tips, the meter read resistance. When I touched the leads to the two copper colored tips, nothing. Is that the way its supposed to react?) Still nothing, so I decided to try: 3) At the advice of the guy who sold me the bulbs at the auto parts store, I took a wire, attached one end to the metal body of the car to ground it, then touch the other end to the outside of the bulb's socket to see if it might be a bad ground. But first, I decided to move the car around into the garage so I could see better. BUT the battery was dead when I tried to start the car and I had to jump it off. I didn't think I had used enough juice while I was monkeying around with the lights to drain the battery, but maybe so??? Anyway, I jump it off, drive around the neighborhood for a while to charge the battery, bring it back to the garage and start getting my ground wire test st up. I get everything ready, then go turn the key, turn the light switch on, return to the rear of the car, and guess what? THE RUNNING LIGHTS ARE ALL ON!!! What is up with that??? The only odd things left are that the front park lights still come on when I push the brake pedal, and the center brake light (the one that's inside above the rear seats, under the rear window) stays on even when the brake pedal isn't pushed. It gets brighter when the brakes are pushed, but it never goes off unless I turn the light switch off. Is that the way its supposed to work? I've never noticed, but I thought it stayed off unless the brakes are pushed. (My manual doesn't even mention that light...) Also, the engine fans came on after I turned off the engine... Maybe that's supposed to happen, too, and always does, but I sure don't remember that before either, and neither did my daughter, who drives it every day. So could I have inadvertently done something to fix it or could there be some weird electrical demon possessing the car? One other strange tidbit I'll share, and I don't know if this might have anything to do with any of this or not, but I recently had some problems that I thought were simply the alternator, so I have a 2-month-old alternator. I said I "thought" the older problem was the alternator, because the car lost all electrical power while driving one night, and wouldn't hold a charge. Ended up getting 2 different bad alternators from Advance Auto (checked bad in the store) before getting a good one from NAPA. However, the battery still kept losing a charge. (Took the NAPA alternator back to have it checked just to make sure, but it checked okay and is still in the car.) I had a Toyota mechanic friend look at it, and he diagnosed a bad crank shaft pulley, of all things! (The center O-ring was cracked, so the outer, grooved ring was slipping and wasn't turning the belts once we got it up to highway RPMs.) Changed out the pulley with a new one about two months ago, and the problem hasn't re-ocurred. Again, I may be thinking too much and confusing the issue by bringing in too many needless tidbits, and I'm sorry if that's the case, but I don't want to leave any stone unturned. I hope its fixed, but I don't know why or how, and I'm paranoid it will just come back. Anyway, you all have been great for trying to help, and any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

Cougar, by "marker lights" are you talking about the side lights? I haven't noticed if those worked or not... I'll check when I get home from work. EVOthis, I did check all of the fuses visually and with a multimeter, and they were all good. I even switched a spare fuse for the one in the #5 position under the dash to make sure. I also pulled all of the bulbs, one at a time while the switch was on, because I had read a thread that mentioned something about the filaments possibly causing problems. Although I didn't do a thorough visual inspection of each bulb, I checked voltage at the socket for one of the tail lights, and got juice when the brake pedal is pushed, but it goes away as soon as you let off the pedal and only the light switch is on. One other strange thing I noticed last night while I was working on it is that the front park lights come on when the brake pedal is pushed. That's not normal, is it? I've owned the car for 14 years, but my daughter has been driving it for the past 5 years. So I'm not sure how long that's been going on. We did have a problem with a tail light bulb a while back (maybe a year ago), and it seems like it just didn't fit properly in the socket, like it only worked when it was held a certain way. I'm to the point now where I'm rethinking everything from the past that might have been relevant, trying to remember what all I've done over the years, and may just be confusing the issue even more... Anyway, I really appreciate your responses! Any other suggestions would be great!

I have no tail lights! I found this out the other night when a cop pulled me over to tell me. He gave me a $75 ticket, but said they'd waive the fine if I can get the problem fixed before the court date, which is about 10 days away. So I'm in a pinch here! I've found a number of threads with the same problem, but so far I have no solution... All bulbs light up fine when I hit the brakes. (I did have one back-up bulb burned out.) Checked all fuses (under dash and main box under hood), all bulbs, the park light switch on the steering column... nuthin! I saw one thread where someone suggested replacing the middle relay above the interior fuse box with one of the outside relays to see if the one that controlled the tail lights was out, but the original poster was afraid that might fry one of the good ones (they were $100 apiece), and the thread ended before the OP told how they resolved the problem. I'm not exactly electronically (or mechanically for that matter) astute, so hopefully someone can offer some other simple suggestions. Otherwise, I suppose I'll be making a trip to the dealer. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!!

Cougar said... "Soon you will be able to fix Soobs just like the pro techs do." Maybe not like the pro techs, but hopefully at least better than the parts guy I talked to.

mtsmiths is correct... They wanted to sell me the whole light/signal stalk kit (& kaboodle). I called the dealer back, and was told the guy who priced that wasn't a "tech" but simply the parts guy who wouldn't know anything about any "Battery Kill Switch." Whatever... I'm glad I found you guys. This may come as an utter shock, but I know nothing about automobile mechanics. But hey! At least I'm not a virgin... anymore. Arigato, y'all!

Ouch! I feel so... violated. I get it, I should have taken a few minutes to search this on my own before re-posting a question that apparently every other forumite before me has posted. Thanks for the tip Cougar... Its actually a car my daughter is driving at college. I've asked her to check the switch. I had looked around for an alternative switch the other day when she was in, but missed the one everyone is talking about. What really steams me is that, if this is such a common problem that the "subie techs refer to this as the 'Battery Kill Switch'" as someone on an earlier post stated, why was the tech at my dealer ready to sell me a $420 part?! While I'm at it, a couple of "backatcha's": Hey johnceggleston, did you even spell your name right? And "mtsmiths" and "nipper"... talking about virgins... That's just funny! Thanks all!!

Actually the tail lights are staying on as well. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm not exactly mechanically or electrically inclined, although I was pretty proud of myself for finding the fuse and removing it... I figure its probably something in the switch on the steering column. Is this something a total incompetent should try to tackle? If its just a matter of cutting wires from an old switch and reconnecting wires for the new switch I may be okay. Anything more technical than that and I'm in trouble. Thanks!