mountainwalker

How loud is the ride on your Michelins? How are they for noise compared with the Turanza Serenity and the Goodyear?

What's the name of your Michelin tire? You're in Seattle - how do they perform in wet? How are they on light snow/ice (I will chain, just curious how they do without)? By going with a tire size that let's you chain up, are you giving up anything in handling, fuel efficiency, etc.? With a VDC-equipped Subaru, isn't the even tire issue reduced or eliminated? Where can you find guidance on tire date-of-manufacturer codes? Anything you can share here? Temp A tires = what does Temp A rating mean? Traction A tires = what does this mean? and Speed = which speed rating would you go for?

From a poster on Car Talk: "A good checklist. I have bought 8 used cars over the years, and always checked out the trunk as well. Water leaks can cause corrosion, and lifting up the trunk mat can reveal some real problems in the rust belt. Also, any repainted areas are immediately suspect; accident or rust repairs."

So this is what a knowledgeable Tirerack.com rep had to say about these 4 tires below. "The Avid V4S will be the most responsive of the tires we have discussed. The Goodyear will be slightly louder than the TRZ, it will be subtle. The Goodyear is kind of a unique tire, the only thing it sacrifices to the TRZ and the Serenity is a little ride quality and a little noise. If ride comfort and noise is your number 1 goal, choose the Bridgestone, If bad weather performance is most important, choose the Goodyear if sporty feel, then choose the V4S If long tread life, the Goodyear or the TRZ" Had a few questions on these tires below for anyone who has used them: - Bridgestone Turanza Serenity all year grand touring (replaced the Turanza LS series which for several years was the top tire on the Tirerack reviews for whatever category they were in) - Question - overall has very good reviews, but have seen some reviews that complained of not enough traction on some snow/ice. Are these poor performers on light snow/ice? How much better do they handle than Yokohama TRZs? - Yokohama Avid TRZ all year touring - supposed to be a little lower speed rating, a little softer handling and a little noisier than the Turanza Serenity. - Yokohama Avid V4 performance - Question - does it sacrifice much bad weather performance? How does it do in wet conditions and light snow/ice? - Goodyear Fortera Triple Tread - poster said it was recommended by some people who say it offers good winter traction - long tread life - warranty is 80k miles. Question - how does it perform in dry warm conditions?

Anyone care to add to the list or know a thread covering this topic?

ok4450 posted a list of things he/she looks for when inspecting cars for dealers. Is there anything you would add to this list? "I've done a lot of car inspections for dealers to aid in their decision as to whether to keep a car or run it off to the auction. It was a methodical process I was trained in and has worked very well. It goes like this. 1. Test drive car and pay special attention to the auto trans shifting or manual trans/clutch if equipped. 2. If ok, then a compression test and oil pressure test of the engine is done along with listening carefully for any abnormal noises. 3. If ok, then one puts the car on a rack where the underside can be inspected. The following areas are checked: Any noticeable frame or body damage. Brakes Suspension components and tires Exhaust Check for any leaks of any sort; engine oil, trans fluid, coolant, etc. Then all belts, hoses, etc. are inspected followed by operation of all lighting systems, horn, wipers, heater/A/C operation, etc. Body panel fit or any obvious body damage or damage to the strut towers, inspection of all glass/window operation, etc. The process is a bit deeper than what I've listed but it's really not horribly time consuming. A couple of hours should get just about everything (and if everything is done it's really not that big a money maker for the mechanic). Even with a thorough inspection there is no 100% guarantee that things won't go wrong. The basic building blocks are good but some of that little stuff could become a problem. I performed an inspection for someone one time on an older model Ford T-Bird and this car was near immaculate. I could find no problems at all except a pair of half worn tires on the rear and even those were not too bad. The people purchased the car and about 6 months later went out one morning to start it, a gas line leaked,and the resulting fire burnt the car from the windshield forward. The gas lines appeared fine during the inspection and it was never determined if the gas line split, blew off, or had been tampered with by Jr., who it appears had been given a little freedom to tinker under the hood. Hope that helps."

Posted by VDCdriver in Car Talk forums in response to my same question: "The LLB Edition came with different, two-tone leather upholstery, instead of the sold color leather upholstery in the VDC model--at least in '02 it was that way. Also, the LLB came with a limited-slip rear differential, whereas the VDC model came with VDC (naturally!). Also, the VDC model came with the superior Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) drive system, which is different from the AWD system on all other Subaru models. When you hear about the necessity to put in a fuse in order to switch a Subaru to FWD when a temporary spare is mounted, this advisory does not apply to a Subaru with the VTD system, as it is not subject to the problems from mismatched tires that other Subaru models experience. Also, these vehicles have their "normal" torque split approximately 40% front and 60% rear--for better handling--instead of the usual Subaru mix of 60% front and 40% rear. In the event of slippery conditions, the VTD system varies the torque distribution as needed, just as with the cheaper Subaru AWD system, but it is more flexible in the way that it varies the torque split. Another difference with the VDC model (at least in '02) was the audio system. The VDC at that time was the only vehicle on the road that came from the factory with the very high-end McIntosh audio system (not to be confused with Apple's Macintosh trademark). Over the past few years, several friends have purchased cars with JBL audio systems and other high-end systems, yet they all admit that the McIntosh system in my '02 VDC is far superior in audio quality to theirs. I can't speak for the mix of features on any of the models after '02 except to add that for a year or so ('03 and possibly '04?) some Subaru models came with OnStar, as a result of Subaru's short-lived relationship with GM. (Toyota bought out GM's minority share of Fuji Heavy Industries a couple of years ago.) So--now that I have confused you, I think that you need to examine these vehicles more closely to figure out the combinations and permutations of features which probably varied a bit from year to year. Regarding the VTD system, my best guess is that most Subaru owners are not even aware that they have this system, and the only way to see if a particular model is so equipped is to look for the "FWD fuse" holder under the hood, between the firewall and the strut tower on the passenger side. If there is no FWD fuse holder, then that means that the vehicle in question has the vastly superior VTD AWD system. All-in-all, I suggest that you go for one of the 6 cylinder models, but in terms of which one, you will have to look really closely at them in order to determine what type of equipment they have and whether that equipment meets your needs." I thought that the VDC system was only available on the VDC edition 6 cylinder from 2001-2002 and I'm not sure whether it was available on other editions 03 and beyond - anyone know? I'll also check cars101.com.

Can anyone who has driven a 6 cylinder Subaru Outback with VDC and without, comment on the handling of each? We're looking to pick up a 6 cylinder LL Bean or VDC 00-02 Outback (though VDC was only available 01-02). If we pick up a 6 cylinder without VDC, will the handling be much worse? Prefer a VDC edition from what I've read, but not sure how many may be available in the market locally 01-02. If not enough decent ones available, may have to consider LL Bean 6 cylinder.

What's your driving style? What's the best way to extend longevity with AWD, smooth and steady? Isn't that true in general?

Hi CNY_Dave, Did you buy the 03 beaner recently? What was the price like? How does the 6 cylinder beaner handle without VDC (assuming it's without)

After getting the editions sorted for each year 2000-2002, and getting great recommendations from many members, I would only go with a 6 cylinder, and I definitely think either the LLB or Ltd 6 cylinder 2000-2002 or the VDC Ltd 6 cylinder 01-02 (VDC apparently wasn't available in 00). Wanted to ask: 1) What do people like about the LLB edition over the Ltd edition for 2000-2002? 2) Do you prefer the LLB 2000-2002 to the VDC Ltd edition 2001-2002? 3) I realize the VDC for these years commands a premium. Is it worth it? 4) If price were no limitation, would you go for the 2001-2002 VDC Ltd over the LLB and Ltd editions? 5) Does getting the LLB mean paying a premium just for the LL Bean name? In the last day I've narrowed my choices to these model years and editions, and USMB has been a HUGE help. Thanks everyone for the great advice and information.

grosgarry, after doing some further digging, and getting the editions sorted for each year 2000-2002, I would only go with a 6 cylinder, and I definitely think either the LLB or Ltd 6 cylinder 2000-2002 or the VDC Ltd 6 cylinder. 1) What do you like about the LLB edition over the Ltd edition for 2000-2002? 2) Why do you prefer the LLB 2000-2002 to the VDC Ltd edition 2001-2002? I realize the VDC usually commands a premium. If price were no limitation, would you go for the 2001-2002 VDC Ltd? 3) Does getting the LLB mean paying a premium just for the LLB name?

Thanks nipper, just check it out, very helpful comparisons. We've decided to definitely get a 6 cylinder. Now have to decide on year 2000-2002 and edition - Ltd, VDC or LLB editions. Any suggestions much appreciated.

Hi nipper, Forgive my ignorance, been away from car ownership for years living in the big city and renting only when I needed. What would I check out on cars101.com? Are there pictures of the different Subaru Outback models with descriptions? Is there a particular section to check out? BTW, thank you for your good wishes earlier, appreciate the thoughts for my family.

1) I understand why the 6 cylinder is more desirable. Is "H6" the designation for all the 6 cylinder Outback models, or a specific 6 cylinder model? 2) How many mpg do you lose going from the 4 cylinder to the 6 cylinder? 3) Why an early LL Bean 2000-2002 Outback edition? Were they better than later model years, or were you suggesting the earlier years only for value? 4) Also, why LLB edition instead of just any 6 cylinder Outback edition? Does the LLB edition come with VDC and is it loaded similar to a Ltd edition? Wouldn't I just be paying a premium for the LLB name? 5) In general, would you recommend going for a Ltd edition or other edition over a standard 6 cylinder 2000-2002? 6) Do you think the 6 cylinder 2002 would be better than a 2000-2001 6 cylinder? I'm nearly there folks. I'm feeling like the 6 cylinder 2000-2002 or 6 cylinder 2002 would be best bet. Ltd or LLB, depending on what it comes with. And sounds like it's worth finding a model with VDC if it's available.

grossgary, Check out this response below to my question on CarTalk forums. VDCdriver, the poster, appears to confirm your advice - that it's best to go after the 6 cylinder model because it has timing chains instead of a belt, and because there are no head gasket issues. Is this true of the 6 cylinder in 2000-2002, or just 2002? This is what VDCdriver posted on Cartalk forums in response to my question: "If you are considering a 4-cylinder Outback, I would recommend that you not look at anything prior to the 2002 model year. After 2002, the engines appear to not suffer from the head gasket problems that were typical of the '96-'01 models once they got past ~ 110k. On the other hand, I can strongly recommend all model years ('01 to present) of the 6-cylinder Outbacks. The 6 is an incredibly powerful engine, has a timing CHAIN (rather than the timing belt that has to be replaced on the 4-cylinder model at 105k), and has proven to be essentially trouble-free. Comparing my '97 4 cylinder Outback with my '02 6 cylinder Outback, I can tell you that I have only given up ~1 mpg with the 6, and I enjoy the much lower noise levels and the safety factor of the VERY strong acceleration when it is needed. The acceleration of a 4-cylinder Outback is best described as "adequate", while the 6 borders on awesome. As to VDC, I do have that feature on my Outback, and it is very effective at preventing skidding and sliding of the rear end on slippery turns. And, if any Outback that you are considering is still equipped with the original Bridgestone Potenza RE-92 tires, I can tell you that you need every advantage that you can get on a slippery surface. Those Potenza RE-92s are the absolute worst tires on a winter road surface that I have ever experienced. On my '02 Outback, the VDC feature only came on the 6-cylinder model that I drive. While it has lately become available as an option on the 4 cylinder model, it is possible that VDC continued to be available only with the 6 cylinder model for a few years after '02, and that might account for the large price differential that you are seeing for VDC-equipped Outbacks. On the brand new models, VDC only costs something like $400. as an option, but on earlier models, it likely cost more, or was only available in combination with the 6 cylinder engine."

This is what VDCdriver posted on Cartalk forums in response to my question: "If you are considering a 4-cylinder Outback, I would recommend that you not look at anything prior to the 2002 model year. After 2002, the engines appear to not suffer from the head gasket problems that were typical of the '96-'01 models once they got past ~ 110k. On the other hand, I can strongly recommend all model years ('01 to present) of the 6-cylinder Outbacks. The 6 is an incredibly powerful engine, has a timing CHAIN (rather than the timing belt that has to be replaced on the 4-cylinder model at 105k), and has proven to be essentially trouble-free. Comparing my '97 4 cylinder Outback with my '02 6 cylinder Outback, I can tell you that I have only given up ~1 mpg with the 6, and I enjoy the much lower noise levels and the safety factor of the VERY strong acceleration when it is needed. The acceleration of a 4-cylinder Outback is best described as "adequate", while the 6 borders on awesome. As to VDC, I do have that feature on my Outback, and it is very effective at preventing skidding and sliding of the rear end on slippery turns. And, if any Outback that you are considering is still equipped with the original Bridgestone Potenza RE-92 tires, I can tell you that you need every advantage that you can get on a slippery surface. Those Potenza RE-92s are the absolute worst tires on a winter road surface that I have ever experienced. On my '02 Outback, the VDC feature only came on the 6-cylinder model that I drive. While it has lately become available as an option on the 4 cylinder model, it is possible that VDC continued to be available only with the 6 cylinder model for a few years after '02, and that might account for the large price differential that you are seeing for VDC-equipped Outbacks. On the brand new models, VDC only costs something like $400. as an option, but on earlier models, it likely cost more, or was only available in combination with the 6 cylinder engine." Sounds like the 6 cylinder 2002 is indeed a desirable model to go after.

Agreed. Can you recommend a good brand of chains and a good source? How fast can you drive with chains on? About how long does it take to put them on or take them off?

I know there's one out there for us and we can't wait! But we'll probably have to buy it without ever seeing it live, which means I really have to do my homework and rely on a good local garage inspection and checking service records. Any advice on models to avoid/look for and features to avoid/look for? I have another post going for that. People have warned against 2000-2001 saying that those were transition years under GM,and have said 2002 was an improvement, and then 2005 was newer generation and an improvement.

Which all-season tires do you like? Any of the above? Will chains work fine with most all-year tires? Have never used chains before. And I do have the equivalent of a snowmobile suit - my old military winter suit designed to wear over clothes. You could go out in PJs with that thing on and it's like you never got out of bed...

Is there then a big difference between 00-01 to 02 and 03-04?

Love_em_when_there_old, I'm confused, avoid 2002 as well? Thought it was just 2000-2001 that were transition years under GM and suffered more issues. Wasn't 2002 the better year? Is there a big jump in quality/performance/longevity from 2002 to 2003? I can't tell you all how much I appreciate all your advice - I'm making this purchase intelligently with lots of research but faster than I've ever made a purchase like this before. Have to move our startup company to Silicon Valley this summer but as I mentioned for family reasons may have to be back here in fall (though long term will be splitting time between E and W Coast). We fell in love with the Subaru even before owning/driving our own. And I'm coming over from Volvo. Nothing but admiration for the quality and brand loyalty.

Just saw more posts as I was posting my last one. Looks like best to go for 2002 for budget. For anything more expensive, is there a big jump in quality/performance/longevity from 03-04 to 2005?

We're trying to buy below the price range of an 03-04 model. Not having trouble making up my mind, just trying to make the best possible purchase within budget. We may have to resell this car and return to E Coast in the fall because of an illness in the family - so I want to buy something that could work for long term if we need it to, but not something too expensive so it's easier to resell. I don't have a lot of time to find a few good possibilities, inspect the best 1-2 and do necessary maintenance/repairs before arriving if I want the car ready by the time we arrive locally in a few weeks. I'm doing an intensive search in the next 2 days and hope to have the best 1-2 choices for us inspected right away. So does the 2002 model correct for the head gasket issues in 2000-2001 model years? Thank you kindly for the helpful advice.

Because it is another failure point, have there been any issues with VDC failing during use?