[How to remove OBDII connector to repair intermittent connections.]

With a fortunate pull in the right place, I finally got the panel off. I took me a while to figure out how pop the connector out but it wasn't too bad. From there I was able to release the individual wires and then crimp the ends just enough so that now there's a solid connection to the pins of the scan tool.

I used this video to figure out how to remove the wires from the plug.

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[How to remove OBDII connector to repair intermittent connections.]

2 hours ago, lmdew said:

It snaps into little plastic clips on the sides.  You have to push them back for it to be removed.  Junkyard is a good place to practice!

I'm not sure which direction, "back," is and how do you get access to the plastic clips? It would really be helpful if I could figure out how to pull out that lower panel. This video shows the panel already removed.but it's difficult to tell what was holding it in place:

2 hours ago, heartless said:

found this on Nasioc...  (for an 03 WRX)

Quote

The OBDII port is two-piece. First remove the housing by reaching behind, pinching the sides and pushing it towards the floor.

Once that part is out, the piece will be dangling by the wiring harness. Now the actual port can removed from the plastic housing by pulling the harness backward out of it (i.e. up, towards your dash).

yours may be similar..

I have honestly never had the need to actually pull one, so not positive on how.

That article you quoted is identical to the page I linked to in my opening post, https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/51253/how-do-i-disconnect-my-obd-port-from-my-lower-dashboard .It's quite a reach to be able to locate the back of the OBDII connector under the dash and then attempt to pinch the ends to release the connector.

Thanks for your replies. 🙂

mrfixiter

[How to remove OBDII connector to repair intermittent connections.]

I have a 1997 Legacy GT wagon whose OBDII port is getting very temperamental. I have to hold the end of the scanner cable in a certain position or the display goes blank. The scanner works fine on other cars so I know the fault is in the car's port. I've watched several videos on how to repair/replace the pins but I could only find one description on how to remove the connector from the lower dashboard. I was wondering if there was a simpler way to access the port. This photo of the port shows one of the two Philips screws which I removed on either side of the panel thinking the panel might easily pop out but that didn't happen. Do I have to remove other pieces of the dash before the lower panel will pop out or do I just need to pull harder on the panel to release it?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

I bought the fuel pump assembly from the salvage yard, swapped out the pumps and purchased a new fuel strainer.  Car is running again. I do have some other problems which are a prior, failed smog test (before the pump failed) and an intermittent OBDII connector which I will ask about in a new topic.

Thanks for all your help. 😃

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

15 minutes ago, lmdew said:

    with the pump out you will have a good view inside.   everyone I've opened has been very clean.

When I took out the pump assembly to bench test it, I thought the tank looked very clean. I'll have another look to make sure.

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

Thanks for your input about used and new aftermarket fuel pumps.

I have a couple of questions: I've seen this posted in many places that sell fuel pumps:

Quote

Did You Know?  If you do not clean your fuel system when replacing your fuel pump that there is a 90% chance that the fuel pump will fail under 30 days. Drain & clean your fuel tank every time you replace a fuel pump!!

In your opinion, how accurate is that statement?

If I decide against buying from the salvage yard, what aftermarket brand(s) would you suggest?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

Yesterday, I reinstalled the old fuel pump assembly in an attempt to see what, if anything, was coming out of the fuel pump right at the pump's output. I thought I had the correct diameter hose to connect the pump's output line to my gas can but it was too narrow and I didn't want to take an hour out of the day hunting down the correct hose. Instead, I removed the hoses from the fuel filter and connected them to the fuel pump pressure gauge. Then I connected my bench power supply to the input plug of the fuel pump assembly. I turned up the voltage slowly and when it got to about 5 volts I could hear the pump chattering. I hadn't heard that sound before when the car wouldn't start or when the key was turned to on during the priming process. It was at that point that the current draw on my power supply had maxed out (2 amps) so I shut off the bench power and checked the fuel pressure gauge. I was a bit surprised to find that the gauge was registering about 10 psi when such a low voltage was applied. Then I removed my bench supply and reconnected the plug from the car to the fuel pump assembly and turned the key on and off several times. With each cycle, the pressure kept increasing. Next, I cranked the engine and after a few seconds, it started up. I let it run for a few minutes and then turned it off.The fuel pressure went from about 28 psi to 20 psi with the car off and held that pressure for about 20 minutes. That seemed quite good to me. I then removed the fuel pump gauge, reconnected the fuel filter and when I cranked it up again, it started right away.

In summary, I think there was a dead spot in the motor that may have been cleared up when I tested the pump outside of the car. When the pump has no gas to pump, it is much easier for the pump motor to spin as indicated by the current readings, 12 volts, 1 amp outside the tank, 5  volts, 2 amps, inside the tank. I'm happy that the pump is working now but I'm sure it won't be long before it fails again so I'd like to replace it.

I contacted the local salvage yard whose website said they have the part and asked about a warranty. I was told the part can be returned within 7 days. Does that sound like the industry standard? Should I pay a few extra bucks for an extended warranty?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

Hi again. 😀

I finally had a chance to do some more troubleshooting. I pulled the connector to the fuel pump assembly and monitored the voltage (open circuit) at the plug. My helper turned the key to on and my meter peaked at the battery voltage and then quickly went back to zero as expected.

I repeated the test but this time I added a 20 ohm load resistor across the same plug. The voltage dropped ever so so slightly. It was very hard to tell the difference because my meter doesn't have a peak hold feature. I believe whatever the difference was, it was negligible.

Next, I removed the fuel pump from the tank and connected it directly to my 12 volt bench power supply. My bench supply has a 2 amp current limiter so when I applied voltage to it, the overload circuit on the power supply kicked in however when I brought up the voltage slowly, the current flow was a bit erratic at first but when it finally reached 12 volts, the current leveled off to about 1 amp. The only complaint that I could report was that the motor seemed a little noisy. Since this is the only fuel pump I've ever tested, I don't know how much noise is too much, what the average input current should be or what the input resistance of the motor is. It also occurred to me that even if the motor is spinning, that doesn't mean the pump is working properly.

From here, I'll reinstall the same pump and attach a long hose to it and see if it is able to pump out gas into a gas can.

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

21 hours ago, jonathan909 said:

Any wrecker should stand behind its parts, period, and moreso if they're a full-service yard, because they're making quite a bit more money on them than would a self-serve.  And forget "implied" warranty - they should explicitly state it.   Around here, the two Pick'n'Pull yards get most of our business, and by default they give a 30-day warranty (for credit if the parts are unsuitable or fail, which essentialy means "no reason necessary").  Of course, of late they've been trying to upsell an "extended" warranty for a few extra bucks, but what do I look like - a rube?

(I haven't been dealing with the other self-serve yard here (Bucks) this year, because they're a division of Evraz, which is owned by a Russian oligarch, and "Ukraine".  Also, their inventory just isn't well-organized like Pick'n'Pull's.  And I only go to the full-service wreckers when I absolutely have to, as was the case last year with getting a new gas tank for my '01 H6 Outback, since the self-serve yards appear to have a running competition to see who can punch the most holes in a tank to drain it when the car first comes in.)

Hi jonathan,

Thanks for sharing your picker/wrecker experiences.

I have a question about viewing these forum posts. Recently, the left frame of my screen has been overtaken with viewing stats. It lists who the top posters are, the most popular days, etc. I can't find any way to remove that from the display. In other words, is it possible to see the posts full screen without them being scrunched to one side by the stats?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

On 8/27/2022 at 4:02 AM, el_freddo said:

You don’t. You go and get either a new OEM unit and fit it or you buy a quality aftermarket unit. 

There’s no guarantee how a used pump was looked after. These pumps use the fuel for cooling - run out of fuel often is a pump killer, even once can be enough (probably more so for external EFI pumps) to do permanent damage if not toast the pump. 

If you were in a bind second hand could b a get out of jail card, but only if it meant you get to leave with a working pump! And I’d pull it from a vehicle with the most amount of dirt etc around the fuel pump plate.

My 5c on the subject of used fuel pumps. 

Cheers 

Bennie

I like your advice: "And I’d pull it from a vehicle with the most amount of dirt etc around the fuel pump plate." 😀
I suppose I should ask the proprietor of the salvage yard what the warranty is on a 25 year old fuel pump. The price quoted to me over the phone was $100. I think that price should include some implied warranty with it. I mean if it works at all, then it's probably in good shape, right?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

On 8/25/2022 at 5:06 PM, lmdew said:

ebay has some good pictures.  Subaru pumps are usually smaller in Dia than aftermarket and goldish in color.

I'll keep that in mind when I go shopping.

Thanks for your reply. 😀

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

1 minute ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

www.car-part.com or maybe LKQ

check ebay

check craigslist for someone 'parting out' a compatible soob.

Thanks for those suggestions. 👍

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

35 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

Honestly, I've never bothered to check.  They don't seem to fail that often, so I just figure that the odds are that it is.  I'm sure there are some Subaru markings, perhaps the Fuji Heavy Industries "swoop" logo or something.

Now I'm really wondering if they're that reliable, I'd better make sure that the old one is defective!

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

50 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

Lots of Pick'n'Pulls in CA (i.e. 19).  Any near you?

https://www.picknpull.com/locations

 

No Pick 'n' Pulls nearby but I did search for salvage yards in my area and found one 30 minutes away which does have the part. The next question is, how can I make sure the fuel pump in the salvaged car is an OEM pump?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

While I'm waiting for another opportunity to resume my troubleshooting, I was wondering, where do you go looking for a reliable, used, OEM Subaru fuel pump?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

1 hour ago, jonathan909 said:

I know you're a fan of these things, and I'm not saying that it's a bad tool.  I'm saying that $80+ is a lot of money to pay for a resistor.

It is a lot of money to pay for a load resistor but if you do this for a living and charge top dollar for your time, then you're paying for the convenience. For most of us DIY'ers, we do this at our leisure and the extra time spent doesn't matter much. I think a 12V light bulb tester would work well for the weekend mechanic.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

52 minutes ago, heartless said:

should be the very first couple of pages of the wiring section - "General Description" - "How to use this manual".

if you dont already have it bookmarked.. add this site to your collection: http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/

Yes sirree! It's right there on page 2.

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

I think my previous post was too long and it was displaying improperly so I'll keep this short:

Quote

if you go to the beginning of the wiring section, it will tell you how the connectors are viewed & labeled, and how to tell a male from a female in the drawings.

Years ago, I remember seeing something like that in the manual but I've been searching through all the pdf's in my library and I've not been able to locate it. Any ideas which pdf contains this info?

 

12 hours ago, forester2002s said:

From a 2002 Factory Service Manual:

The following color codes are used to indicate the colors of the wires used.
Color code Color
L Blue
B Black
Y Yellow
G Green
R Red
W White
Br Brown
Lg Light green
Gr Gray
P Pink
Or Orange
Lb Light Blue
V Violet
SA Sealed (Inner)
SB Sealed (Outer)

Most excellent. Thank you.

Quote

I've had intermittent fuel pumps caused by the fuel pump relay.

It's high up under the dash on the drivers side.

Larry

Let's hope it doesn't come down to that!

 

Quote

Great info.  Get the schematic, find the 3 elements of a circuit - Load, Ground and Power.  Then you are ready to troubleshoot the system.  If you are not checking the circuit with the load hooked up, you meter can lie to you.  Loadpro fixes that.  Find Opens, Shorts and High resistance in minutes.

In other words, "Keep it simple." I have to remember that.

Thanks for your replies.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

 

Well ladies and gentlemen, there seems to be some issue with me copying and pasting quotes from pg 1 to pg 2. All the formatting is messed up. I will try to reconstruct the content ASAP

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

Yes, the schematics do show the connectors and their numbering but it would have been helpful to indicate which end of the connector is being shown. Is it the view from the end that plugs into its companion connector or is it the view from where the wires are inserted?

I think CH could also stand for charcoal but that's not very close to brown.

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

5 hours ago, el_freddo said:

With the age of the vehicle and/or if it’s sat around for a long time with old fuel in it the fuel pump will be cactus. It might move fuel, but it won’t pressurise it enough for the injectors to properly squirt it into the intake as a fine mist. 

If you just want to determine if you have voltage at the pump you could hook up a light to come on that you can watch when you turn the key. With the hatch and all the carpet removed you will probably hear the pump make noise if it’s working. It should be a constant noise, not a wavering one. 

How many miles on your Legacy, and does it look like someone pulled the fuel pump out previously? 

Be careful with any plastic tabs - electrical or fuel. I’ve read about ppl snapping a plastic fuel line into the pump but I’m not 100% sure which one this is or if it’s an internal item. 

Cheers 

Bennie

 

Thanks for the warning about the plastic tabs. See the rest of my comments at the bottom of this post.

18 hours ago, lmdew said:

Just turn on the key.  The pump will come on for a few seconds.

 

16 hours ago, heartless said:

yeah, if you have the carpet back, and things are reasonably quiet around you, you should hear it when you turn the key on... it does not run continuously, it runs in a short burst to prime the lines then shuts off, so what you should hear is a brief hum only for a second or so when you turn the key to on

another option for testing fuel pump function is to disconnect the fuel line from the engine, and stick the end in a clear bottle, then turn the key on... you should get fuel out of the line

 

The car has 189k miles on it and it's only been sitting for two weeks. I don't see any evidence that anyone has ever taken out the fuel pump assembly. Under the top panel, there is lots of dust which of course I will vacuum before I start removing the nuts.

I already performed a fuel pressure test before this whole adventure began and the gauge didn't budge so if there is 12 V going to the plug at the fuel pump, the mystery will be solved. By the way, here is a picture of the plug that goes into the fuel pump assembly. Have I correctly identified pin numbers 1 and 4 as the test points for the 12 volt input? (See page 20 of the manual for reference)

One other tidbit of information I'd like to share regarding the wiring diagrams and the abbreviations that are used for identifying the wires by color. This chart displays the abbreviations for each color. Who knew that "L" was the abbreviation for Blue?

Thanks for all the helpful information and replies. 

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

2 hours ago, laegion said:

No. As I said the access is in the cargo area under the carpet behind the seat back.

 

1 hour ago, heartless said:

yeah, you need to fold the seat back down (lift the bottom to the upright position first, then pull up on the knob on the seatback, close to the windows) you may need to remove a strip (could be metal or plastic) that goes between the seat back carpet and the cargo carpet and holds both down, but if someone was in there before you, it may already be gone... just behind the seat back, lift/fold back the carpet, and you should see the access covers - there will not be any sticky material (sound deadening) over top of them.

in a wagon, the access covers are BEHIND the seat, in the cargo area - not under the seat.

Yes, you are both correct. I was working on it a few hours ago and realized that I had to lift off the carpet/panel in the cargo area and then I found it. Here is what was under the bench seat that confused me earlier: https://app.box.com/s/2ba0lyu86mzqgkzg2ac2blo6i2rsw9wo

What I'd like to try next is to connect 12V via an external power supply to the pump before I remove the eight nuts. Would I be able to hear the pump if it's running? Any idea what the current draw is on the pump?

Thanks for your help.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

1 hour ago, laegion said:

Yours should be the same as my '95 was. There are two access hatches behind the rear seat under the rear cargo area. One on the drivers side that just has a fuel tank sender and one on the passenger side with a sender and the fuel pump assembly. They are both under oval covers that are under the carpet.

My station wagon's rear seat is a bench seat which has a looped piece of fabric in the center. When you pull up on this "handle," the bench seat rotates 90 degrees into its up position. Directly underneath the passenger side of the vacated bench seat, is some sticky material (it did seem like the material was OEM) covering the spot where I saw fuel lines going down into what I believe now is the gas tank. Is that how your '95 was?

4 hours ago, heartless said:

there is nothing incomplete about it if you understand what you are looking at. Granted, it is not the most intuitive system in the world, but it is valid.
Ref. to 2-8 = section 2 of the manual, chapter 8

[W1A0] = the specific part of that section/chapter...
If you look at the table of contents, there is a sub-chapter labeled "W"  so W1, refers to the page number for that sub-chapter... A is the first heading, 0 refers to the whole heading subject

if it was referring to specific line in a sub-chapter the reference would look something like [W1A3] or something along those lines. (that particular reference is for line 3 of the above sub-chapter & heading and reads "Disconnect connector from fuel pump")

as for the missing access panel.. pretty obvious someone had been in there before and didn't bother to put it back - so yeah.. idiots.

and for the 8mm nuts - is it possible they are nothing but rusted lumps? or are those missing as well (more idiot behavior)? (ie: possibly broken off?)

if you do find some - i would recommend using a good penetrating oil and letting it soak for a bit before attempting to remove them. And when you do start on them.. exercise a ton of patience! the studs are rather small, and easily broken..

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation about the sub-chapters, headings, and line numbers. Now it makes sense to me. 😀

If the 8mm nuts give me any resistance, I'm going to use PB blaster and then leave the vicinity for a while because those fumes are powerful.

4 hours ago, el_freddo said:

Unless it’s a known performance branded fuel pump. Don’t go overboard with higher rated fuel pumps either, they can be noisy! 

There’s a lot of god advice about removing the pump and those little nuts that hold it in place on the tank. Luckily where I’m from (down under) we don’t see rust issues like you guys state side do in the salt belt! 

I recommend cleaning the top of the tank area around the fuel pump plate as much as possible to avoid fine dust and small rocks from falling into the tank. 

Hopefully you won’t need a replacement tank as I can attest to @jonathan909‘s account that removing and replacing a fuel tank is a right royal PITA and should be avoided at almost any cost (unless absolutely necessary)! 

Cheers 

Bennie

Regarding the replacement fuel pump, I hold off on that discussion until I determine the old one is defective.

Thanks to all you for your replies.

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

26 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

Hmm.  Maybe the problem is that you haven't placed "No Fire" signs near the working area as directed.

Seriously, though, sounds like you're just missing that cover plate.

And though this may make me sound like a bit of a slob, I relieve fuel pressure by disconnecting the fuel line.  There's only so much overblown ritual I can stand, even though I hate getting gas on my hands.

I would think a cover plate would be one of those essential items you'd want to reinstall especially since there is a gas tank located a few inches below it.

I agree that there is much "overdo" about nothing in the service manual but sometimes those links point to more essential information that has left me scratching my head when those links are nowhere to be found.

Thanks for your reply. 😀

mrfixiter

[Where is my fuel pump hiding?]

2 hours ago, lmdew said:

In the wagon it's just behind the rear seat.  In the Sedan's it's under the rear seat.  You'll see an oval panel with 4 screws in it.  Pull the panel and you will see another oval panel with many 8mm nuts and the fuel hoses and electrical connector.  Spray the fuel hoses with WD-40 or some other lube.  Carefully remove the hoses, electrical connector and then the 8mm nuts.  

Pull the panel and pump.  Get a Subaru pump.  Even a used one is better than aftermarket.

Thanks for that info. I  just had another look at the service manual (link below) and the sketch at the bottom page 10 is pretty much what I saw under the bench seat. Another interesting fact is that the R1 connector had been labeled "R1" with a sharpie like someone who previously fixed the car needed to remember that. Getting back to the sketch, how is it possible that I was able to see the fuel lines and the connector without removing an access panel? Maybe it's missing? I also looked for the 8mm nuts that secure everything in place but didn't see those either. There must be something I'm not seeing here. I'm going to snap some photos of all this when I go visit the car tomorrow and post it here if I can't figure it out.

Link to sketch in service manual: https://app.box.com/s/wm7eg83tt11hsmt0c85rmrdway12g822  See page 10

3 hours ago, forester2002s said:

This doesn't answer your question, but have you tried the following:

- Open-up connector R1/B97, and check for 12V (to ground) on B97 when you try to start the engine?

- Also, check for resistance/continuity on R1 (to ground)?

These tests won't solve your problem, but may take you further down the road...

Excellent idea. Why didn't I think of that? 😀

3 hours ago, jonathan909 said:

I think the earliest fuel pump I've had occasion to have to get at was a '99, so I don't know if/how that differs from yours.

Have you gone through the drawings at http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/Legacy_Outback/1997/Service Manual/  ?

Answer should be in there.

Yes, I did peruse the service manuals for my particular year however your prompting persuaded me to look again (see my reply above to Imdew). I will say that those online service manuals seem to be incomplete. For example these are the instructions for releasing the fuel pressure:

Quote

1) Release fuel pressure. <Ref. to 2-8 [W1A0].>

I can't find anything in the fuel section of the manual that is labeled, "W1A0"

Thanks for all of your very helpful replies. 👍

mrfixiter