BB's93LegacyL
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Posts posted by BB's93LegacyL
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To 1982gl4: I discovered Fluid Film a few years ago. It's a unique product made from sheep's wool lanolin. As you know, it is not meant to be put on rusty metal to stop rust. It is for clean metal, to keep the oxidation reaction from starting. I use it all the time. People looking for it won't find it in stores -- go to the website and look for dealers in your area. In my case, I buy it from a nearby farm implement dealer.
xdeadeye1, You raise an interesting question. Should you wash a rusty car, or is the damage already done? I have no statistics to back up my opinion, but here it is nonetheless.
Corrosion is aggravated by moisture, salt, and temperature. If you wash your car (including underbody flush) you are removing some of the corrosive salt, but you are forcing moisture into tight spaces that dry slowly. Since cars in wet environments without salt have nowhere near the rust problem of cars in the salt belt, I believe that removing salt by washing is a good trade-off vs. leaving your car salty, and as wet as the roads and nature dictate.
ADIDASubarus, you make a good point, and you are from a cold part of the U.S., so you know what you are talking about.
PsychoSub, Yes, the salt saves lives, no question about it. Black ice is just horrible. Many years ago I spent a few terrifying seconds tobogganing into the snow-filled median of a 4-lane highway because I failed to recognize black ice. So soon old, and so late smart.
A few years ago I was driving commercially with a young kid in the co-pilot seat. He thought we were driving on wet pavement. I explained black ice to him, but I don't know if the message reached him. I hope so, he was a good kid.
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Just an update, this winter season the first road salt was put down on Oct 31. If there is an upside to living in a cold climate, as far as rust is concerned, I think corrosion slows down in colder temperatures below freezing? I think I saw a formula for calculating this. Small consolation though!
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1993 Legacy wagon with automatic transmission & FWD - In summer, my city mileage is 20, Hwy between 28 & just over 30. Combined mileage is about 25. Much lower mileage in winter, about 14 city in last winter's record cold with all the time spent warming up.
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Alright, you are now the proud dad of a Subaru owner. Welcome!
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re: starter solenoid contacts and plunger, I'm wondering if anyone has purchased these parts from nationsautoelectric.com? It looks like they have the parts for OEM Denso starters. A kit including contacts and plunger is $34.95 shipped.
Other suggestions would be to clean & tighten all of the positive and ground cable ends and attachment points, and consider the possibility of corrosion within the cables causing voltage drop. You could have a battery to starter voltage drop test done to rule out a bad battery cable before doing starter work.
Wondering if it's safe to completely rule out alternator problems even though you had the output tested? This time of year in a cold climate, lights are on, rear window defroster, etc, making it hard for a failing alternator to keep a full charge in the battery? Failing alts can be sneaky devils, as I've learned the hard way. But you did say that after the new battery was installed, it still seemed slow cranking, so maybe it is more likely a cable or starter solenoid contacts problem.
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You may not need a new motor. There may be debris blocking the "squirrel cage" fan, or the armature itself. Here is a link to how I fixed it on my '93, not sure how different the '97 would be.
The problem of the fan failure repeated itself again a few weeks ago. The symptoms consisted of the fan running slower at all speed settings, then a ticking sound like something making contact with a rotating part. Then the fan quit altogether, but would start if I tapped on the base of the fan motor with a wrench. Try tapping on the base of the motor while the fan is turned on. If it starts right up, that might be telling you there's a small physical interference inside the fan or motor, or debris is preventing good electrical current between the armature and brushes.
This time I tried to see if I could remove debris without removing the fan from the car, just by removing the base plate on the motor body. That wasn't enough to work out the debris, so I removed the fan, and tapped on the motor body while rotating the squirrel cage. Powdery brownish debris fell out of the base of the motor. I reinstalled the motor and it ran properly again.
If your car has the OEM motor, it probably has a removable base plate. On the aftermarket motors it looks like there is not a removable base plate.
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It seems odd to me that a reputable dealer would sell a nice newer car like this with mis-matched tires. Check pressures in all of the tires. Have the tread depth checked on the 3 Yokohamas. If the Yokohamas are near new, get rid of the Bridgestone and buy a Yokohama of the same model, and you should be OK with regard to matching circumference. You could have a new Yokohama shaved down to mach the other three if needed.
Check the fine print on the warranty where you bought the car. They should not have sold a car with a leaking tire, regardless of the warranty.
Of course it is possible that in the week you owned the car you did drive over something that punctured a tire causing a slow leak, and the dealer is under no obligation to help you. However, if the leak is in the Bridgestone, I would hold the dealer's feet to the fire.
The dealer probably wants to have satisfied customers. They eventually depend on that for their survival, so go to them with your concerns, and take your mechanic with you. See what the dealer says, and let us know.
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Here are Subaru's specified oil viscosities, taken from the owners manual for my "93 Legacy Wagon. Click on the thumbnail to enlarge the photograph. I don't know if Subaru made any changes to the specified oils for the '94 model year.
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Pgh_Scoob, I should mention again that before I cleaned the debris out of the fan motor body, it had a series of symptoms in the following order. The count of days is approximate, just to give some kind of timeline showing how hard the fan motor had to work against the organic matter build-up.
1) Day 1-10 I heard a ticking sound coming from the area of the fan motor, but everything still worked normally
2) Day 11-20 the motor started to fail to turn on, first for maybe ten seconds, then longer and longer. Sometimes hitting a bump in the road would cause the fan to start. This is when I first removed the fan and cleaned out the squirrel cage.
3) Day 21-27 the motor never came on unless I tapped on the motor housing with my fingers
4) Day 28-34 when I tapped on the motor housing, the fan would start, but not turn at full speed. The speed would gradually rise to normal.
Then I took the motor out, and removed the base plate in order to remove the organic debris.
In hindsight, all of these symptoms (especially ticking sounds coming from the motor) told me the problem was the motor rather than the resistor pack or relay.
btw, no problem with the off-topic comment, it is remarkable that my 21 year-old Subaru still puts out lots of cold air with the original refrigerant. These are really good cars!
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Rooster You nailed it - don't park under trees, especially during the seasons when they are in flower, or when dropping needles and leaves, and during high winds. Otherwise, just think about cleaning out your squirrel cage and motor innards as a routine part of maintenance, maybe every 5 years. I know this car was not parked under trees for the first 13 years of its life -- it was my late father's car that he purchased new. I was the one who parked it under trees (spruce and sumac) in my driveway occasionally when it was not garaged, and at certain times of the year it rains tree debris. Good comment! I was impressed to see how well this 21 year-old Subaru responded to having this cleaning done.
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Thanks Olnick & Forester, I've gotten so much help from the people on this forum, I'm just trying to pay it forward. If you have any suggestions for putting the right keywords on a thread so it is most useful and findable I'd appreciate hearing from you, or anyone with experience on USMB.
I should mention, this job is very easy to do for anyone as long as they are able to contort themselves to work under the dash. I have just basic knowledge of working on cars.
Anyone attempting this project could get by with two tools -- a #2 phillips screwdriver, and a flat screwdriver for prying the bottom plate off the motor body, and for popping off the covers on the plastic dash for access to the screws that need to be loosened to flex the dash out of the way. Truth be told, a butter knife would probably substitute for the flat screwdriver for this project. It's nice to have the metric sockets for Philips/hex head screws just because of the better grip on the fastener (I hate Phillips-head screws, but that's just because I have lots of experience with fasteners in corrosive environments, and anything with a Phillips head is worthless there, unless it's stainless, but a hex-head is still better.) That being said, even though this is a 21 year-old car, I think the Phillips screwdriver could do the job without stripping out the screw-heads, because this is interior work where there is no corrosion.
Be careful when shopping online for a replacement fan motor. Sometimes you will see an AC condenser fan showing up cheaper, but that is not the part you want. I saw that the aftermarket motors have wires coming from the motor instead of a quick-connect female plug on the motor body, so replacing the motor is not as simple as just plug-and-play. This might be a situation where it would be worth checking the salvage yards to get an OEM motor from a vehicle with low mileage, do the cleaning I did, and install the OEM motor.
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Solved for now at least.
I read on this forum that one cause for a heater motor not working properly is debris gets into the squirrel cage. When I took the motor off and cleaned a few pine needles out of that area, the problem still existed when I put the motor back in.
I found that if I lightly tapped the motor body it would start up, but it was making an intermittent ticking noise. After a few days of this, it started coming on more slowly when I tapped it, gradually coming up to speed. I decided to buy a new motor, but I had some questions about the right part, so I took the motor out of the car again to check some features of the OEM fan motor for comparison to the aftermarket parts.
This time I also removed the motor body's silver bottom plate held on by two gold-colored screws (circled on photo). With the plate removed, about 2 tablespoons of copper dust, decomposed vegetation fluff, and spruce needles came out (21 years worth!) FYI, copper dust is toxic, so use proper personal protection.
Since the motor brushes are at the bottom of the motor, the armature at the brushes was trying to churn through all this crud.
When I put it back together it seemed to work normally again, but time will tell. Earlier posts have asked about how to remove the motor. Here are the steps... (If you just want to check for dirt in the motor itself, just do steps 1, 8, and 9.)
1. Remove glove box door by removing two phillips screws under the bottom edge of the door.
2. Remove the door's mounting plate by removing 4 phillips screws
3. Pull the plastic corrugated tube off the motor body
4. Loosen the hex head screws behind the two access doors shown in the photos. Loosening these a bit allows just enough flexing of the dash to work the fan from its housing.
5. Remove the 3 8mm hex screws holding the gold-colored base to the black motor housing
6. Lower the fan while pulling the loosened dash panel to the passenger side just enough to get the fan motor and squirrel cage out of the dash
7. Disconnect the wires' connector plug at the base of the motor or at the other end
Clean debris from the fan housing, and then
8. Remove the two gold covered screws from the silver base blate on the motor, and find where two soft plastic flaps (look like electrical tape) cover the spots where you can insert a flat screwdriver to pry the base plate off.
9. Tap the motor body, and the debris will fall out of the bottom of the motor. The photo shows how much came out on half of a paper towel!
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Re: road salt alternatives, cost of de-icing materials vs. cost savings to infrastructure, here's a table that shows relative costs and effectiveness of different de-icers. As to the damage done to cars, it is severe, but compared to when I was a kid, cars are so much more durable mechanically and with regard to corrosion. My parents had a new '62 Pontiac that had rust perforation by the time it was 3 years old. Now that cars are lasting longer (average car on the road today is 11 yrs old), corrosion can still add to repair costs, and reduce the life of the car faster than miles driven, especially on low-mileage cars like mine ('93 w/144k miles).
I can appreciate the damage from being near the ocean. When vacationing in a fairly new rental home within a hundred yards or so of the ocean, I saw rust on things I've never seen rusty before, e.g. rust on the refrigerator door hinges, rusty ceiling fans, and rusted out motorcycles. What really drove home the point of how salty the air is near the coast was when a naturalist showed us live oaks that grow as scrubby brush near the ocean, compared to just a few hundred yards inland, where they can grow to be very large trees.
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The question comes up occasionally about used cars from the northern U.S., and how rust is a problem.
I came across a map that shows the amount of road salt used in the U.S. The map tells most of the story, but there is more to the problem.
Where I live in Wisconsin, the road salt season is anytime temperatures drop below freezing. Our road salt season is about 6 months long, as early as October, to April.
The severity of the cold prevents washing cars unless you have access to a heated structure for thawing the glaciers in the wheel wells, and flushing the undercarriage. Last winter we had 60 days with a low temperature of 0ºF or colder. Even if it warms up enough to wash the car, in two blocks driving away from the car wash, the car is bathed in salt water/slush/spray again. The undercarriage flush at the automatic car wash doesn't even begin to wash out the wheel wells.
Finally, the amount of snow throughout the season means there is always new snow, sand, and salt being packed into the wheel wells forming a gritty block of dirty salty ice. The map below shows the depth of snow cover on March 10, 2014.
The photos of my car show how much ice packs in the wheel wells. During a couple of days in early February that were sunny and around 20º, the wheel wells started to thaw, and I estimated about 30# of snow/ice/sand/salt came out of each wheel well. The photo with the snow shovel shows what came out of one wheel well. They packed full again anyway.
I'm sure those of you who live right on the coasts with salt in the air have your own rust issues, but this is why we like to find "southern cars" when shopping for used!
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When mine had these symptoms, it was an intake manifold gasket. Mine is also a '93 Legacy wagon. This happened at about 100K miles when the car was about 17 yrs old.
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Presslab, thanks for your answer. I noticed the same thing with my 93 Legacy FWD wagon in cold weather and wondered if it was normal or a sign something was wrong. A typical trip involves warming up the car for about 2-10 minutes depending on how cold it is (like +20F to as low as -26F this winter), driving across town for about 8 minutes, then about 5 minutes on the highway, and the transmission never shifts to 4th. A few more minutes on the highway and it upshifts to 4th normally. If I drive it again before it has totally cooled off, it continues to shift normally. Maybe the reason I wasn't used to this is that for 26 years before this car I drove nothing but manual transmission vehicles.
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For what it's worth, I live close to you and had the same thing happen on the same morning. I shoveled, and then drove through the fresh snow with the fan on full speed and the control set to the mixed heater/vent setting. There was no fog/frost on the windows (car had been parked in an unheated garage overnight.) I parked outside during the snow storm for about an hour, checked the horses, and then got back in to leave while it was still snowing. The windows had fogged on the inside while I was doing my horse chores. I switched on the defroster and idled for awhile until everything cleared.
I think it was just extra moisture in the cabin from melting and evaporating snow on my clothes & boots, and the higher outside humidity on the snowy day. I thought maybe the blowing snow was forcing its way into places where it would get picked up by the ventilating system. I think the warmer weather in the teens and new blowing snow brought this on. It doesn't take much moisture in the cabin to fog the windows when the air in the cabin starts to warm and the glass is still cold.
You mentioned a damp smell. It will help when you find out if your A/C is functional. You might have a little moisture/mildew in the ductwork.
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I just checked mileage on my '93 legacy. City is usually 20 mpg, and now it is 15.6 mpg. It's been very cold here, 200 miles north of you (38 days with below-zero ºF temps so far this winter, lowest was -26ºF.) I attribute the loss in mileage to the number of cold starts and warm-up time. After you diagnose/fix the gas smell, check your mileage in spring.
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Thanks, Fairtax. As the second owner, I have good reason (service records) to believe that this 21 year-old car with 139K miles still has original plugs, wires, PCV valve, and fuel filter. I put in a K&N air filter awhile back, and it's still clean. I will follow your suggestions. I appreciate you taking your time to help.
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There are six output diodes used to rectify the three phase AC voltage that is generated by the alternator. Normal AC ripple voltage across the battery should be less than .1 volt ACV.
It sounds like you have had some bad luck with alternators and this may be an indication something is wrong with the wiring to the alternator. A bad connection to the battery on the voltage regulator "sense" lead could make the regulator think the battery isn't at full charge and make the alternator work harder than it should thus shortening the normal life of the alternator and battery possibly. Hopefully the shops checked for that issue. Checking for a voltage drop across the wire connection while the alternator is working would show up the issue if there is one. It is also wise to replace an older battery at the same time you replace the alternator since they work together and it makes no sense to have a weak battery loading down a new alternator and possibly cause more trouble later on.
Thanks for the suggestion on alternator wiring.
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Different ways you might notice you have a failing/failed alternator
1st case of alternator failure:
My '93 Legacy L Wagon was having trouble keeping a charge in the 5-year old battery. I took the car to a national chain parts store for a battery test. It showed "excessive ripple" but the guy who did the test did not know how strongly that condition suggests an alternator problem, and I didn't know anything about excessive ripple either. I figured it was time to replace the battery anyway. After installing the new battery I took a 70 mile round trip with the AC & headlights on. After returning home and re-starting the car and driving a few blocks, it suddenly lost all electrics - no spark, accesories, etc. I got a jump start and the car limped the 4 blocks home with all accessories turned off, just running the spark plugs with the last juice left in the battery. I replaced the original 18-year-old alternator and all was well. I believe the new remanufactured alternator I purchased was a Beck/Arnley.
Checking around the forums I learned that excessive ripple might be a sign of a failing alternator. There are several diodes in the alternator, and if 1 fails, the alternator still charges the battery, but has lost a third of it's charging ability. Successive diode failure prevents the alternator from keeping even a partial charge in the battery. Does that sound correct? Anyway, I had no warning from dash lights in that failure, just low charge to the battery.
2nd case of alternator failure:
Fast forward 18 months, same car. Driving across town I heard the radio cutting on and off, engine stumbling, and aggravated by use of turn signals. I was near an auto shop and my car limped into their parking lot where it stalled, and would not turn over. Right away they suspected the alternator. I didn't think this was an automatic diagnosis because the alternator was only 18 months old. I was thinking it must be some serious problem, but they were right, it was the alternator. Unfortunately, the alternator I had a friend install was from a reputable locally owned auto parts store, but the warranty was only 1 year for walk-in trade vs. longer for their commercial customers (auto repair shops.) The mechanic where my car stalled called around to find an alternator in stock. The only place was OReilly. They delivered one within the hour and I was on the road again.
3rd case of alternator failure:
About 3 weeks after having the OReilly re-manufactured alternator installed, I saw the battery and brake lights coming on at the same time. This would happen intermittently over a period of a couple of days before I searched the web and learned this is possibly symptomatic of a bad rectifier in the alternator. I took the car to the same shop on a Friday afternoon, replacement alternator to be installed Monday. The owner even gave me his card with his cell number, saying if the car broke down over the weekend I should call him because the warranty would cover towing to his shop. I used my charger to keep the battery charged until my shop appointment. The alternator was still under OReilly's full warranty covering parts and labor. I wasn't sure I even wanted another re-manufactured alternator after all this, so I stopped at the Subaru dealer to see about the alternator recall I read about. The parts man was not aware of the recall, but further reading tells me the recall did not apply to '93 models, so maybe that's why nothing showed up for recalls. I asked what an OEM new alternator would cost, and I believe the price he quoted me was over $400.
Well I thought I was out of the woods once the 3rd aftermarket alternator was installed, but a few miles after the installation, I lost power steering, and again the battery warning light came on. I drove right back to the shop before even popping the hood. When I got there and looked inside, the belt tensioner bolt had snapped off. They fixed that, but later, when I looked at how the tensioning system works, I suspect they had tensioned the belt with the long tensioner bolt and then failed to clamp down the tensioner, so all of the force was on the long threaded belt tensioner bolt.
I'm at the point where I feel like I should just carry a a spare alternator in the car to be ready for the next failure.
I hope this helps anyone who is having any of these alternator symptoms in their Subarus, and this is just my personal experience - I'm by no means a mechanic or car enthusiast, just an average owner who loves my Subaru, so check with someone knowledgeable before you go by what I've suggested.
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I had 2 keys cut by Subaru dealer from VIN for about $10.00 when my keys were too worn out to duplicate. I watched him cut them with a hand nipping tool that adjusted for the code numbers. Piece of cake.
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Some years ago I had a problem with my door locks failing to actuate. It turned out to be a worn ignition key. Having a new key cut fixed the problem.
But I know the locking system is a little inconsistent, where sometimes turning the key in the driver's door unlocks all the doors & hatch, other times not, even when I think I'm using the same technique all the time. It seems like sometimes I have to consciously hold the key in the open or lock position a little more, and the message finally gets to all the locks. In my '93 Legacy wagon the driver's door is the only lock that can actuate the other locks.
Help! Scratched my Legacy this morning!
in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
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Sometimes branches rubbing across the finish leave residue that looks like scratches, but when you use a paste wax, they are gone. Hoping that may be all it is. It would be great if you could post a photo of the scratched area. Without seeing the scratches (I may be off base here) I would wash the car, then use a clay bar with a product like Meguire's Fast Finish spray, and finish with a wax. There isn't any risk of damaging the finish with these mild products, unless your clay bar gets contaminated with grit. Theses products are available at any auto parts store.