tomson1355

Check the clearances before you loosen any cam cap bolts just to make sure there aren't any that are too tight. I've yet to find any too tight. Also, it's not hard to make sure the shims and buckets don't fall out. It's just something to be aware of. And, no, you don't need a valve depressor. The shims and buckets just slid inot place and are kept there by the cam lobes. Assembly lube will hold them until you put the cams on. If you don't have to take these cars to a dealer for repairs like this one, they are incredibly cheap to own. And they feel solid going down the road. Do the necessary repairs and you can drive them til they rust from under you.

Have you seen this page? http://home.comcast.net/~skipnospam/Head_gasket_replacement.html I used it a lot on my first HG. He pulled the engine because he did the clutch at the same time but a lot of the info is useful even if you decide to leave the engine in. I think Ultra Grey is the sealant most of the gurus around here use. If you search on HGs you'll find a lot of excellent threads which will refer to the sealant. Don't know about RTV black. On the first HG I was very careful on the shims and buckets and got several new shims trying to bring the specs to perfection. Ont he other two I was happy if I had .005" clearance and didn't change any of them. Obviously you have to be very careful not to mix up shims and buckets. As to returning them to OEM specs, I just don't know. Depends how particular you are, what you plans for the car are, etc. When you remopve the cams, the exhuast shims and buckets can fall out. It helps to have three hands.

As a novice mechanic, I've done three HGs leaving the engine in place. I've pulled two for clutches. If i didn't have to do the clutch, I'd do the HGs in the car again. For me, pulling the engine is not as easy as Subaru 360 makes it sound, but I bet he's more experienced than I am. I find it nerve-wracking to get everything lined upand home again. OTOH, i'm using abucket loader. An engine lift would make the job easier. The only truly annoying part is removing the rear lower valve cover bolts. A flat 10mm ratcheting wrench helps with this. Tom

The mechanic will do the head gaskets for $600? I'd be tempted to risk it at that price. Can you find acouple of other 2.5s around that you can listen to? It's possible that the noise you hear is piston slap which is common in these engines and not fatal. I love the 2.5s. They are reasonably peppy and fun to drive. We have three that have all been bought with bda head gaskets and driven, I'm sure thousands of miles with bad head gaskets. Replacing the HGs solved the problems and they all run like tops with an average of 175,000K on them. I'm not advocating being foolish, I'm just pointing out that these engines can take some abuse without developing bearing problems. At least they have in my case. YMMV. If your mechaninc is not familiar with the noises these engines make he may mistake the piston slap for bearing knock. The engines can be pretty noisy. Tom

Bard, air tools are not essential. FWIW, Standard Flywheels in California will ship a remanufactured flywheel for less than $100. They're at www.standardflywheels.com Another upstate NYer, Tom

Mike, Yes, you have to remove the cams before the head bolts. The cams are in the way of the head bolts. Tom

Great pics and really interesting. I'm amazed that you were able to repair it. At least now if I ever run across it I'll know it can be fixed. Thanks. Tom

Amazing story. How does the insurance company get away with calling a mechanical failure a "major accident"? I'd have a talk with them. Did it happen on a dirt road in the Amherst area? I'm familiar with many of them. My roots are in the area. Tom

You're driving at 7-8 miles an hour while taking the picture? Inside a shop?

Actually, there is no gasket. I asked for one at the dealership and they said there wasn't one. Adn there wasn't one when I took it off. So I resealed it with Ulatra grey. We'll see. Yeah I looked at the procedure for doing the oil pan in the car and by the time you get the exhaust down and the motor mount nuts off adn the engine jacked up, you've done a lot of work. One thing that might have made detecting the leak difficult is a slit in the flywheel cover that is right behind the back of the oil pan. Some of the leak must have been seeping in through the crack, making it look like there was oil inside the flywheel cover. I don't know if that slit is supposed to be there or whether it was worn by the flywheel teeth. In any event, the pan is sealed. Now to put the flywheel and clutch back on, stick the engine back where is belongs and go for a ride.

Sorry no pics. My wife has the camera at work, and I can't figure out my son's camera. And thanks for the help and suggestions. This might be the most friendly and helpful forum on the web. The culprit is the oil pan gasket. There is fresh oil right up to the screw holes at the rear of the pan, on both the pan and the block surfaces. The gasket material looks thin and is a different color on the inner rim than on the outer rim (which may be normal?). Did I pull the engine again to find this out? Yup. Did I pull the clutch and the flywheel to be absolutely sure the seal and the separator plate weren't the culprits? Yup. I want to be able to sleep tonight. It also explains why the pattern of oil on the garage floor was the same before and after the work. The only thing I didn't do was reseal the oil pan. Argh. why couldn't I see the leak clearly with the engine in? I don't know. Partly because even after degreasing, it's still pretty wet and oily in there. But partly also I had this feeling that I'd done something wrong putting the rear seal in. But I didn't! And now I know. Good experience, but time-consuming.

Well, I -say- the leak isn't coming from the front of the engine. Let me be clear. The leak doesn't APPEAR to be coming from the front. With the car stationary, it drips at the rear of the motor. The timing cover and the front of the oil pan are clean. If there is some way the oil leaks at the front and travels to the rear unseen, please educate me. Lord knows I need it. I am looking further shortly. Thanks again, Tom

Thanks, Andyjo. As I said, I did the oil pump, and the screws were tight. And the leak is not coming form the front of the engine. it drips down onto the rack and exhaust. Tom

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think I misled you guys on how fast the leak is. I meant you could watch the level fall over a couple of weeks. To be more accurate, I'd guess about a quart in 300-500 miles. After it's parked it leaves a half-dollar sized spot (a few drops?) on the garage floor. It left a similar spot before I did the work but I can't say for sure that it came from the same place. I did not find a difinitve leak when I did the work. The rear main had a slight oil trail coming from the bottom of it, but I don't know if this means it was really leaking or what. I'm very confident of the engine. Sounds good, runs good. Very spunky. Clean exhaust, etc. I Sprayed the area with engine cleaner resulting in a nice puddle like Nipper said. i took off the skid plate. But I just can't see where the leak is. It's certainly in the rear of the engine and I doubt it's the pan, too. I fear the rear main. I'll be separating the engine and tranny later this am and I'll post an update. If I did mess up the installation I'll be begging for pointers on replacing the rear main seal. prolly shoulda left the other one alone. But almost everything you read says, if you're doing the clutch, do the main seal. And, I wanted to make sure I'd taken care of the leak. I hate doing things over. But it sure makes ya humble. Thanks, you two, for your generous help.

Bought a 98 Outback with 107K and bad head gaskets. It also leaked oil on the ground, enough so you could watch the level on the dipstick fall. I had the heads off and the block looked so easy to get out that I took it out and put in a clutch and rear main seal. The separator cover was aluminum so i left it alone. I did all the seals in front, TB, oil and water pumps, etc. All went well, but a minute after i started it, smoke rose up from the exhaust. I figured it was just drippings from work and would go away. But no, there is still a leak. On the ground the leak looks the same as before the work. When you come to a stop, smoke rises up from the exhaust, which may have been happening before the work and would have gotten missed with all the coolant steam. There is no oil leak coming from the front of the engine. I see three possibilities. One, I messed up the rear seal installation. It was my first rear seal. Two, it's a power sterring leak. Three, it's an oil pan leak from the rear of the pan. It's very difficult to tell where the oil is coming from. I will probably just reseal the pan and see if that doesn't get it. But if anybody has any suggestions as to how to tell what's leaking, I'd be grateful. I don't think I want to slide under the car with gunk and rags. How often are oil pan leaks seen in this model? Thanks, Tom Earlville, NY

I found a good article on the P0420 code here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200610/ai_n17196905

Thanks for the input, guys. My code reader doesn't give me any live O2 sensor data. Can anybody recommend an inexpensive one that does? IIRC, there are several threads here where it's said that replacing the front O2 sensor will often fix the P0420 code. I guess I shouldn't believe everything I read. Tom

98 Forester, 170k. Started throwing the dreaded p0420 code. I searched the threads and found that some got away with replacing the front sensor and some had to replace the converter. So, for $100, I replaced the sensor but the code returned. Is a new cat my only hope? The local muffler shop wants $430 dollars for a new one. I found one on NAPA for $244.00. Both are direct fit. The rest of the exhaust appears to be solid. Of course, I need an inspection, so I gotta do something. It seems to take a week or so before the code returns. Maybe I can squeak an inspection in in between. Is there any test for the cat? Any suggestions? Thanks, as always. Tom Earlville, NY

Look closely at the coolant in the overflow reservoir. Is it murky or does it have black crud floating in it? If yes, it's a HG sign. Is the level normal, or is it high? If it's high, and stays high as the car cools after use, it's a head gasket sign. Your symptoms could be any number of coolant issues, but with the 2.5 phase I, you should figure head gaskets unless you find something else, like a coolant leak that isn't from your reservoir overflowing. Tom

Mea culpa on the valve shims and thanks to Jay for the correction. Tom

Hold the cams on the flats to remove the cam sprockets. A 25mm or 1" open end wrench works, IIRC. The cams are marked. There are shims on buckets under the cam lobes. You should feeler guage these before you loosen the cam caps. All the shim sizes will be different and you want to get the shims and buckets back in the same place. Again, IIRC, skip's repair page is good on this stuff. http://home.comcast.net/~skipnospam/ I just break the cam cap bolts and head bolts free one at a time. There is a proper order for the head bolts. It should be in your Haynes. After that I don't know if it matters. Don't worry about TDC. Take the lower idler off and the belt will slip off. There is often confusion on the crank pulley marks. Search the forums and you should find an explanation of which one to use. Tom Earlville, NY

Head gaskets. And the additive hasn't done a thing. Sorry.

There is no point in using the coolant additive in the Phase I DOHC 2.5. It will do nothing for the type of leak they develop.

The coolant additive won't do a thing for the typical DOHC HG leaks. It works by filling leaks where the coolant is leaking OUT. The DOHC leaks are gasses from the cylinders into the coolant. HGs done on 98 Forester at 130,000, on 97 Legacy at 170,000. I know the DOHC engines have bad reps from the HGs, but, other than that, they are terrific.

Look closely for disconnected vacuum hoses. Easy to miss. I found two after having similar symptoms to yours. Found a third when the cruise control wouldn't work. All is now well. Tom