66Satellite

Hmmm, then maybe you'd like the new AWD Dodge Magnum wagon? http://www.dodge.com/magnum/index.html?context=vehiclePage&type=vehicleLink

Wow, great replies--this is definitely a real car site filled with true car nuts. Seems to me that door frames would help make the body more rigid and would improve the general soundness of the structure in a side impact or if you were to roll the car. My old Plymouth hardtop also doesn't have door frames--but then that was for fashion (hardtops were based on the vert bodies back in the 60s--no B pillar either) and of course there's probably more steel in one door than there is an entire Legacy. I've driven the 95-99 Legacies and felt a lot of body flex, and when you close the doors it just feels like nothing. It just seems like a cost saving manuever to me. Then again maybe I'm just too used to 60s Mopars and 70s/80s Volvos... Agree about the resale value. Comined with the AWD it makes them very attractive. I'm thinking of a 2000+ Legacy or 2001+ Outback. Again, it's the flimsyness of the doors and lack of side airbags that makes me hesitate a bit. I was expecting to see some improvement in the 2005 Legacy but other than side airbags it's not there. The stupid old Accords and Camrys do better in side impact tests and had side airbags available befor Subaru.

I don't want to seem like a troll here but the one thing keeping me from buying a Subaru is the flimsy doors. What's up with the no window frames? I saw a Subaru designer make some kind of comment in a Car & Driver article (I think) that this approach allowed them to put more weight into the body of the door to provide protection for side impact. If you go to their web site here they have a bunch of fancy ad copy on this: http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/outback/safety/pa_ring.html However, when you see the side-impact test on the new Legacy this is shown to be a bunch of BS. There is good head protection from the side curtain airbags but the Legacy gets a Poor rating for torso protection. http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0411.htm Strangely, the Forester does ok in the same test--perhaps because of the higher ride height? http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0312.htm In any case I'm a long time RWD Volvo owner who has about given up on Volvo cause of their crummy reliability/engineering since they switched to FWD. I'd like SUbaru to be my next car but am put off by their door designs. Thoughts?