Daniel33

Just a final update. Did a small run over the weekend. 1200 k's into the mountains and back. No sign of any problems. Ran like a clock, getting 8.2 liters per hundred k's. Very happy.

Ok, so upon hearing this intermittent alarm again today, I looked up, and guess what I saw?? A little red man sitting in a seat with a belt on..........so yes GD, you were right. The reason it confused me so much, is that the thing which was setting it off was.......the dog. She must be right at the cut-off point for the pressure sensor in the seat, and, as the drive so far had been mostly short test drives, she was not always in with me. Today, she was. So, every time we went over a bump, the alarm would sound, and not a smooth beep so I could twist my head and zero in on the source of the sound, but a short, then long, intermittent one..... but just smooth sailing down the road, and nothing.............. Bloody electronics.........

Well, we have removed the radiator again, and checked the timing. Turns out that the arrow mark on the crank sprocket works out to be 6 cam teeth away from the correct valve timing mark, so it is all good. First time I have ever come across something like an engineer actually thinking about ease of fitment of this level. Outstanding!! I have fitting the cam belt with two people down to a fine art now. The next one will be a breeze!! Thanks for all the help and advice everyone. Those pictures were the clincher.

Ok. Thanks for that. Seems like today I learned something new... So, the TDC mark is followed by the cam timing mark, which is 90 degrees behind it. I incorrectly used the TDC mark, and set the cams 6 teeth advanced, as that is where the other engine I did was. (I didn't pull this engine down, I left that to the kids). This worked out to be 22.5 degrees advanced on the cams. BUT, now it is 90 degrees retarded on the crank.....so, the question becomes, where is the timing set to?? Seems like it might be correct after all??

Hi Fairtax4me. So, I used the correct mark for the valves then. There is only a single divot on the cam sprockets. I used the arrow on the crank sprocket, as that is where the piston was at TDC. So why does the notch on the crank come so much after TDC if it is for ignition timing? Do these engines use controlled advance that has that large a curve? Interesting if that is the case. So, the timing curve begins at full retard and is computed forward depending on fuel load and engine load. This would allow for deceleration ignition timing so far before TDC, there would be no chance of any ignition, and no back-fire, wouldn't it?. However, for it to do this, the computer would have to be one cycle behind real engine time, using the previous cycle's data to fire the engine. Perhaps that is what the flat spots are for on the cam sprocket? To allow the computer to register crank position. I saw no sign of these blank segments on the scope trace, but like I said, I probably had the scope set incorrectly. All a bit of a mystery to me but thanks for the input.

Hi Guys. Thanks for all the great info. Firstly, met me say, I am not rich, and it is pretty common practice to use a steel bottomed belt sander on cast iron heads and blocks to remove old gasket material around these parts.....it may not be too cosher, but it works. I thought I would try a softly softly approach on the aluminium as well. It seems to have worked OK. I have done it to two cars now. One has traveled about 250 ks with no signs of trouble, and the other has done a few thousand by now. The crank angle sensor is not something I am not familiar with, so I am listening to other's advice and wisdom on that. I am only a hack with a scope...I couldn't get it to show me an AC waveform from the sensor at all, just a DC spike. Perhaps (most likely) I had the settings wrong. But, the timing of the cams, I can do. I had the 1 cylinder at the top, crank mark on the sprocket (the small arrow, not the large line, as determined by piston position) lined up at the top, with the vertical line of the block seam, (no idea what the deep line mark is for, as it comes after the cylinder is at TDC) and had the 1 and 3 bank cam sprocket lined up with the mark at the top and the seam at the head/camgear transition. All OK so far. Then, I used a socket on the other bank to attempt to align the timing mark, and the valves were hitting. Now, "that's weird" I thought. So, I moved the crank back, (counter-clockwise) about 30 degrees (being mindful of the open valves on number 3), and set the cam to where is "should" be and brought the piston up slowly. Still hitting......damn. "What is going on???" I thought. So, after checking and re-checking everything, I went to previous knowledge. Remembering where the Forester engine was set when I pulled it down to do the heads, This engine had someone spend money on good plugs, and extractors, I tried rotating the cam gears on both banks 6 teeth counter-clockwise from the standard position, thinking I had perhaps removed too much material from the heads with the sander. (I don't know what the tolerances are for the head to valve clearance). I then turned it over gently by hand a few times, feeling for valves crashing into the heads, and loss of compression too early or building up compression too late, (as best as I could). For this, I used a T-bar and socket, so I could control the throw over TDC on each cylinder. I couldn't feel any issues, so, confirming the timing was the same on both sides, I put the timing tensioner and bottom pulley on, and the intake manifold, plugged it all in, and gave it a kick in the guts. It fired straight up after priming the fuel rail with a few short hits on the starter, and ran, so I continued on my way, until the miss-fire issue emerged once everything was properly back together and it had warmed up, prompting this post. (The 5 minute epoxy seems to be holding fine BTW). The engine runs superbly. It has a definite torque increase at approx 3,500 rpm in second gear. (haven't booted it in 1'st, as it would just leap too fast). It pulls well in each gear, with the curve shifting it's harmonic upwards in each successive gear by about 1100 revs. (Hard to gauge while driving, but I can't afford nor justifiy a dyno test). It revs to 6500 rpm easily. I can hear no sign of, and it is not throwing any codes for, a miss-fire nor backfire. Fuel use around town shows high 7's, but the long range average is at 14.2 k's per hundred. Not too sure how long that will take to reflect a true average, as it has only burned through around 20 liters of fuel so far. The engine had done about 240 000 k's before going into this car. It had been abused by the previous owner, who ran it with cheap crap oil, for a long time, with leaking head gaskets. I changed the sump and oil pickup tube over. All I did to it was re-seat the valves and clean off the carbon from the top of the pistons.....oh, and took off the back of the valve seats with a dye grinder on the intake ports where they were protruding into the port.(best to leave any on the exhaust ports, as the ridge actually assists with creating a vacuum)...that is all the porting I did.....ohh, and I shaped the back of the valves to remove any ridges as well....all by hand with a dremell and grinding stone. I had to swap over a couple of valves too, but I reground all the valves by hand and eye, and set them into the seats with grinding compound and a drill......took me a few hours, but I enjoy that kind of thing, and the results are worth the effort. I don't have a workshop manual, and so have to think my way out of everything. It usually works, but can get me in trouble too, and cost me time. Luckily, I don't have to pay for that. The one I can't do too well, (by that I mean, at all), is electronics. Daniel.

Hi. No, it's not that.

Hi all. Does anyone here know what the alarm coming from the dash on a 2004 Subaru Outback is all about? It doesn't happen all the time, and beeps multiple long beeps, with no apparent reason, and for no good purpose near as I can tell. I am a bit deaf though, and could be missing something!! Thanks.

Of course, I made a mistake....I was counting the crank revs for the cam, when the cam is half.....so, yes 22.5 degrees. Man, how does it run so good??

Perhaps it is the use of an equals sign in the text?? Unless I can't quote yet. So, this is to reply to Fairtax4me. Hi Fairtax4me. Thank for the info. You sound like you know what you are talking about, and I don't wish to start an argument however, doesn't the crankshaft turn two revolutions for every cycle of a cylinder? This would make the math: 48 times 4 equals 192 teeth. Then, 360 degrees divided by 192 equals 1.875 degrees per tooth. So, 6 times 1.875 equals 11.25 degrees advanced. Magnetism is something of an interest of mine, and, having had a look at the sprocket with some magnetic viewing film, I can attest that it is not permanently magnetised. However, for it to be inductively magnetised by the sensor, the sensor would have to be a solenoid. It is not, as the scope trace demonstrated to me, it is not constantly powered. Thus, it is not magnetised by the sensor, but rather, by the ground plane of the alternator. The large spike in the scope trace was due to there being two teeth in close proximity, effectively doubling the flux the sensor "saw", and thus increasing the signal. I don't quite understand why the levels were so different on the sensor though when the induction clip was on number 4 coil lead as compared to number 2, unless the clip itself was transferring some energy to the number 2 lead, when hooked around the number 4 lead, and it was feeding back into the sensor. I didn't try hanging the clip on the other side, and it was resting on the number 2 lead. The field induced in the sprocket would not be a very strong one, but it is enough for the lobes on the edges to trip the hall effect sensor. These are very sensitive devices, able to pick up small changes in magnetic fields, and, when delineated by such edges as are found on the sprocket, they can act as enough of a switch to operate the transistor powering the coil packs. At least, that is my understanding, but I could be wrong.

Hmmm. My posts aren't sending.....

Turns out I had the years wrong. It is an '01 block with '04 heads. The car is 2004.

Well, the fault with the ignition was that the repair I did on the crank wheel had failed. The lobe had fallen against the next one, when I was fumbling about with the glue, trying to get it to set into the grooves properly. So, I unpicked the goo, and used some five minute epoxy to fix the tooth to the wheel first, then, re-enforced that repair with more resin against the neighboring teeth. It seems to be holding. It is now idling smoothly, and operating at low revs under load as it should. It is the weekend here, and although the retail price may be low in America, there is no guarantee that is the case here in Australia. I don't pay workshop fees. I do all my own repairs, as best I can. Once I got the engine running properly, I took it for a test drive, and it overheated. The previous owner had put so much silver seal in it, he had blocked the radiator core. So, I had to use the radiator out of the '04 model, but that was an auto, so I had to modify the top mounting brackets, and the air scoop to fit it. It seems to be OK on power, with perhaps a slight backfire upon deceleration, but no sign of any hesitation on the power. Here is a vid of the scope. Turn down the speakers.

Hi Fairtax4me. The crank wheel is a cast iron item. It could be welded, but the little knob would simply melt away. Also, I do not have a Tig welder. The heat would probably mess with the metallic domains in the material as well. I am not sure that the wheel is a magnet though, but rather, a lobed metallic inductor. The hall effect sensor, (the crank and cam sensor), "see" the lobes and react, closing a switch, creating a pulse for the ECU. The material it is made from has it's domains evenly spread, so there is no polarisation, which would mess with the sensor. I will test this today. I will be removing it, and doing some tests. The coil pack is showing 2 and 4 at a high frequency. Are you sure you have quoted the correct pairing of 1-2, 3-4? Good info on the paired firing, I hadn't thought of that. I thought the firing order was 1,3,2,4 though. This would put 1 and 3 piston oppositely opposed, and firing together, one on compression, one on exhaust. If I remember correctly, the cams are twice the diameter of the crank wheel, therefore, they turn at half the speed. 6 teeth works out to be around 11.75 degrees if I did the calculation correctly, but I may be slightly off. The forester runs fine with the valves like this, and, as the valves now hit the piston on the standard setting on this engine, I thought I would give it a try. It spins up ok, and has plenty of push. No chance to get a mileage calculation yet though with this other issue. I will do a video of a scope probe and put it on youtube if anyone is interested.

No codes are coming up relating to the ignition. I am getting codes for the AFR sensor, but I know that is faulty. I will have a look locally. We are in the bush a bit, but you can get anything in the post nowadays. Thanks for the input.