PhantomSubaru
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Posts posted by PhantomSubaru
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On 12/23/2020 at 8:25 AM, idosubaru said:
My weak understanding is that the ignition either turns the engine over or not. It’s not fuel related.
1. No one asked about check engine lights? What codes do you have?
2. when you turn the key do you hear the relay and pump prime? The pump should turn on for one second.
3. Check that brake booster vacuum hose - people often miss that on engine work.
4. Spray the starting fluid around intake hose, air box, PCV hoses to see if you have a vacuum leak.
Thank you for your input. I was far away on vacation now back in the neighborhood. I will double check on the codes when I return to work on the Subaru. I know for sure the pump primes when turning the key and there is plenty of fuel pressure. I will double check my brake booster hose and other vacuum hoses.
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I noticed something yesterday that may or may not be related to the starting issue. After pulling the key and opening the door, the open-door icon lights up on the instrument cluster as if the ignition were still turned on. The ignition itself is kinda funky to get the key to the right place where it clicks when removing the key but I always make sure it does. I figure if the ignition were faulty it would not crank the engine though so maybe this is a separate issue.
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On 12/21/2020 at 11:26 PM, idosubaru said:
Check for vacuum leaks - Brake booster hose particularly. Very common on Subaru’s to get pulled or forgotten.
Thanks. I will double check those.
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On 12/21/2020 at 8:22 PM, 1 Lucky Texan said:
on some cars, I believe there are grounds between the intake mani and the fender or strut tower or maybe the dogbone mount on the firewall?.
Ahhhh yes, there is that one by the dogbone from the transmission mount to firewall. I checked to make sure it was there and had a good connection. I had not seen it the other day hidden behind the air intake. Could not hurt to add more grounds in other places.
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6 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:
seems like a real stretch but, maybe the engine is flooded now? Very cold cars that run/drive for a very short time, are turned off, then cranked again, may need to have the pedal HELD down to start. That signals the ECU to 'clear flood' and it hold injectors closed. Or, the engine temp sensor is falsely reporting a very cold engine.
I even read of a guy with a Ford truck that would move the truck 12 feet, turn it off to go close a garage door, then, it wouldn't restart unless he held the pedal down.
Thing is, I'd expect you would smell fuel strongly at the rear of the car. Or, a pulled plug would be wet with fuel. Oil could even be thinned with fuel.
Thank you. I am open to anything. Today when I was tinkering and got it running there was no smell of excess fuel or smoking. I remember pulling a plug last month to check for spark when I was previously having the non-starting issue but it did not seem to be damp with fuel then.
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7 hours ago, Rampage said:
If you have a sewing kit look for straight pins that have a plastic ball on the end or shaped like the letter T. You can push them in along side the wire into the connector. The wire has a rubber doughnut around it to seal it in the connector.
Great advice on how to probe the harness without piercing the insulation. I will have to give that a try. So here is what I discovered today. Upon arriving I connected the positive battery cable and cranked the engine just in case it might have fixed itself. Nope. Next thing I did was fiddle with three large connectors on the back side of the engine, one of which goes to the injector harness. I did not unplug them but simply wiggled them a bit to make sure they were fully seated which they seemed to be. I tried the key again and it started. Go figure. I would like to think messing with that connector was what made it work but the previous time I had the non-starting issue I do not remember doing anything with that connector so I am somewhat skeptical. One thing I followed up with was making sure the grounding cable from the battery to body had a good connection which it seemed to be fine but I scratched it up just to make sure. I was looking for a ground wire somewhere between the engine and body but did not see one. Should there be one? I am pretty careful about marking everything when swapping engines but maybe that is something I overlooked.
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10 hours ago, Rampage said:
When testing an injector plugged in with a test light, you ground the test light wire and touch the probe on the 12v supply pin. The light should stay on while cranking. Move the probe to the other pin and the light should be on and flicker when cranking. Or, you can move the test light wire to battery positive and check that pin. The light will be off and flicker on when cranking.
Excellent. I will be heading out shortly do do some work and check out the Subaru. It sounds like I should leave the harness plugged into the injectors while testing and pierce the wire insulation with testing probe rather than unplugging the harness and checking directly on the pins? I would rather not pierce the insulation unless I have to but maybe they need to remain plugged in for this test. Will be checking the large connector and grounds to body too.
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On 11/27/2020 at 10:01 PM, Rampage said:
The Yellow wire on the injector plug is the 12v source and the other one is the signal from the ECM. The wiring diagram shows that the 12v for the fuel injectors, two pins on the ECM and some other items come from the Main Relay. The Main Relay closes two sets of contacts when the Key is turned ON. Maybe the contacts are getting burned and it is starting to fail.
Or, the big connector from the intake harness to the body harness. Check that it is plugged in all the way and no pins are pushed out on each half of the connector. That is one of several you would have unplugged to swap the engine.
Thank you for the detailed information. Everything was fine for a few weeks of periodic starting to move the car around as needed then one day last week I went to bleed the brakes and the car would not start. Same issue as before. I pulled an injector plug and tested with a light. The light was on with the positive yellow wire. With the other wire the light was on but dim and it did not fluctuate when cranking engine. I will check the big connector between the intake and body. Where would I locate the two sets of contacts that are actuated by the main relay? Unfortunately my car is stored in a barn with no heat about 20 minutes away from home so working on it has been a challenge but I plan to go there tomorrow for some other work and check things out with the car. If anyone has feedback it would be greatly appreciated. I am good with mechanics but electronics are a weakness.
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UPDATE: I pulled one of the injector plugs and hooked up my voltage meter. I got 12V+ then put the meter's prong into the other receptor and turned the key. The car fired up! I put the plug back on and cycled through a few starts just to make sure it was not a fluke. I am perplexed as to why it had not ran numerous times before but now it works so I am stoked. I have a P0270 code (cylinder 4 injector control circuit low) that was not there when I was previously attempting to start it. I hope I did not damage the plug while inserting the meter prong. Maybe it threw that code since I had the plug removed and has not yet reset. I should have erased the code and see if it comes back. That will be my next step when I head back out to the barn.
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2 hours ago, lmdew said:
I have a few sets of Red Fuel Injectors if you want a set or two. $20 + shipping.
Thank you for the offer. I have an extra set on my parts engine if needed.
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8 hours ago, Rampage said:
Are the fuel hoses to the engine connected properly? The hose from the filter goes to the top metal pipe.
Sounds like the injectors are plugged or not opening. Is there 12 v at the injector plugs? Unplug the connector and with the key ON there should be 12v on one of the wires. When plugged in and cranking the other wire should show 12v and dip a little when the ECM switches it to ground. If you use a test light it will be on and flicker.
If it has the pulse, you could swap the injectors from the other engine (you may have to replace some o rings), or the whole intake manifold.
Change the fuel filter while you are at it.
I have the feed hose from the filter properly connected to the top metal pipe.
Great advice on what to check with the injectors. I will get at it ASAP and report back. I sure hope it is the injectors and not some elusive electrical issue.
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8 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:
fuel lines swapped?
Fuel lines are in check. I wish they were swapped and that would have been the end of the story.
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1 hour ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:
any back-firing? maybe timing slipped.
IACV hose not connected to/fell off of intake?
No backfiring and the IACV hose is connected. It crossed my mind the timing may have slipped somehow. I had rotated the gears while I had it out of the car but that does not quite have the same effect as a running engine. I am not sure how these systems operate but I wonder if the timing could be out even though it runs smoothly with starter fluid. As of now I am leaning towards a fuel delivery issue. I could be completely wrong though.
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1 hour ago, fgf said:
bad ground to injectors? Or loose connector?
Pretty sure I have everything connected properly but of course sometimes things get overlooked so I will double check.
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1 hour ago, heartless said:
possibly plugged up injectors?
if you have good fuel pressure, and it will run with starting fluid (please dont do that a lot) then it is a fuel delivery issue..
Good idea on the plugged injectors. Do you know if there a way to test them aside from removing them from the car?
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As the headline states, my 1998 Subaru Impreza OBS with EJ22 will not start. I am looking for troubleshooting advice from more seasoned mechanics on what the issue may be. Some background information... This car was my daily driver for a while and developed a rusted out rear subframe so I decided to do a major overhaul of the entire car. Part of that overhaul included swapping an engine with much lower miles. The donor was an identical 1998 Impreza OBS which was my previous daily driver so I know the engine was functional and was stored indoors for a few years while inactive. I carefully followed instructions on replacing the timing belt and coolant pump before placing it in the car. After everything was hooked up I turned the key and it cranked a few times before sputtering to life and ran gloriously smooth for about two seconds before cutting out and will not start thereafter. HMMMMM. I checked a few things. Upon removing the fuel supply line to engine it is evident I have plenty of pressure. I removed one of the plugs and cranked the engine which reveals it is getting spark. There is no blockage in the air supply that I can find. One bit of helpful information is the car will run as long as I spray starter fluid into the air intake. Does anyone have any ideas here?
1998 Impreza OBS EJ22 No Start
in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
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Thank you for your input. I was far away on vacation now back in the neighborhood. It sounds like either one of those plugs being loose would cause non-starting issues. They seemed to be tight but maybe not quite fully seated in their proper placement. Or else I have a poor ground somewhere else or loose connection which would explain the intermittent starting. I hate electrical issues but at least I am learning things along the way.