Nickshu

You all are right, Saab would be out of business if it weren't for GM. The same goes for Land Rover (BMW and now Ford), Jaguar (Ford), and probably Opel (GM -- Saturn!), and Volvo (Ford). However, for auto-buffs like me, I love cars that are off the beaten path, and am sad to see the demise of so many niche market autos. I hope Subaru isn't next. Ive had 5 Saabs (3 9000's, 1 classic 900 and 1 NG900). They have all been great cars, but at times challenging! But now they are just becoming rebadged Saturns (with some refinements of course), and since Saturns are just rebadged Opels, that makes current Saabs the 2 times over redheaded stepchildren! (I know Im exaggerating here, but you get the point!) In the same way Jaguar is in the same boat with the S and X-types basically being a souped up Taurus. And the engine cross overs....ugh. And Volvo....it will be interesting to see where that goes. Long live Subaru....the last of the niche market cars. Lets hope the next Subaru isn't front wheel drive with a GM V8 under the hood and no more boxers!

A good idea, but not as easy as you might think. Unfortunately unlike MB, Saab, Volvo, VW, Toyota, and BMW....Subaru has no military sales program. Avoiding taxes depends on what state you ship it into and license it in, and you must own the car for 6 months and 500 miles prior to shipping it over....and thats if its a US spec car. Nonetheless I'll look into this further. Unfortunately when I asked the sales rep in my broken Italian, he gave me the "non parlo Inglese" line. Nick.

On my weeklong adventure over here to Naples (Italia) I ran across a Subaru Dealer. Out front were two 2005 Legacys. One standard Legacy wagon and the other an Outback. Couldn't resist the urge, so I stopped and checked them out. My impression from the exterior is that the design is much more refined than current model, but overall very similar body shape. Refinement is most noticible in the headlight and taillight lenses in a much sleeker appearance. Overall the exterior looks more on par with a Volvo V70 or Audi A4 Avant. Paint and build quality were very impressive, esp compared to the two current OBWs that wer sitting next to it. Definitely less utilitarian and much more sports-sedan in appearance. There was very little difference between the OB and the regular Legacy besides bigger tires and ground clearnace, and a little bit of Tupperware bolted to it. However, this is a Euro model so it may be toned-down a little bit on the SUV-ness. The really impressive part (IMHO) was the interior. VERY NICE! Beautifully refined and sleek lines on the dash. An incredible center console with brushed faux-aluminum finish and a smooth Mercedes-esque gentle slope from the dash down between the bucket seats. Very, very nice and not plasticey at all. So now Im torn b/c I have to buy a new Subaru in the next 6 months when I move back to the states. Just hope the '05 is available by then. Then again, I could probably get a steal on an '04 if it is. Nick.

Andy, Good call on the OBW Limited. I really like the "sportier" (vs. the SUVish) look of the 2.5 GT, and it has leather, which would be my only reason for going to the OBWL anyhow. But, like you said...Cash is King! Nick.

Hey Andy, While were on the topic, why did you go with the 2.5LE? Just curious. I know you were looking at the 2.5GT too. I am leaning towards a 2.5GT right now, but not sure yet. Nick.

Andy, While Im not a Subaru owner yet, I did work 3 years as an auto mechanic back in college and I can offer afew "general" auto maintenance "pearls" for you....esp if you are in it for long haul (ie 100k+). Aside from the standard maintenance that is prescribed, here are a few things to pay attention to: 1.) Brake fluid -- Change it every 30K or 2 years. Nobody does this, then they wonder why their calipers have siezed or master cyl is shot at 130k. Replacing is labor intensive if you can't do it yourself, unfortunately. 2.) Thermostat -- Replace every 30K or 2 years. Flush/replace coolant at same time. Don't wait for it to fail and the car to overheat. Overheating is the #1 cause for headgasket failure on any car. 3.) CV boots -- Check at every oil change. A little tear caught early can save the joint and big $$ for you. Probably not much risk of this until higher mileage. 4.) Synthetic oil -- Ask your Subaru mechanic about using it and when to switch (or if it came with from factory). If used from the beginning of the car's life, it can have tremendous life long benefits.

Yep....you're right Brat. The 9-2 is supposed to share some Subaru parts. Not going to surface for a couple years though.

Is your OBW a manual? Just curious how it compares in acceleration since the H6 only comes in automatic trans. I'll bet alot of that off the line power gets eaten up in the torque converter and transmission. Loaded down with gear going up a mountain pass is where the difference is probably the greatest. Anyone ever see the HP comparison at the wheels?

Good comments guys. I am a longtime Saab owner, and soon will most likely be moving over to Subaru. GM bought 50% of Saab in 1991 and 100% in 1998. Since then they have basically destroyed the cars. They went from aluminum to cheap cast-iron blocks, cheap and crappy GM parts like plastic idler pulleys that fail every 15K, and cable clutches that feel like sandpaper, to name afew. Most annoying though, they took all the utility out of the cars by eliminating all hatchbacks, which is the design that made Saab popular in the 1980's, and made the car a great all around vehicle. What is interesting is that Subaru has that same utilitarian niche market as an all-around vehicle. It will be interesting to see if GM takes Subaru by the ears and says "you will be assimilated"....by eliminating wagons, manual transmissions, and any unique, useful, or original brand-design that its loyal owners hold dear. Its sad that few (or no) automakers are happy supporting a niche-market. They all seem so intent on just trying to get bigger at all costs....including alienation of the loyal buyers that made them what they are. Lets hope Subaru stays like it is with its off-the-beaten path design philosophy. Keep the comments coming. I like these discussions!

So I've been reading and learning about Subarus as I contemplate my upcoming purchase. Its truly amazing how powerful a resource automotive BBS's are. If only automakers would poll them for design decisions and reliability research! My question: I have read here about Subaru and GM having some ownership overlap. What is the current relationship between Subaru and GM? How has this impacted Subaru's products so far? How do things look for the future?

I've used Langka too with great results. Its worth the $$ Nick.

....OK this is going to spawn a huge automotive philosophical soapbox from me....so here it goes.... Cookie, you are exactly right. I read in a Scientific American study that even the average Chevy, Ford or BMW only has 45% of its parts manufactured in the car's country of origin. But the reality is that WHERE something is made does not determine the quality, but rather the manufacturing practices and adherence to quality control procedures at the factories. Sounds like SOA may have some issues. Its so funny that I am going to buy a Subaru because I think Saab (of which I have owned 5 over the last 11 years) has been ruined by GM. I always liked Saabs because of their form/function design and the all around utility of the car (haul to the dump in the AM and drive to the opera in the PM). But that died when the last hatchback rolled off the assembly line. Why is it that Americans hate hatchbacks so much? Crazy. The sheer utility is incredible. I think that Subaru is the LAST large-scale niche-market automaker left selling cars in America. A great all-around car for people who want good performance and handling and comfort that only a car can provide, but don't want to sacrifice the usefulness of the vehicle and don't want to have to buy an SUV to get utility. Everyone else is either shifting towards the luxury market (Saab, VW) or staying cheap. Thats the sheer reason Subaru appeals to me. I love my cars and I love to feel like I am not driving what everyone else is (mid-sized pseudoluxury sedan...ie A4 Audi, Maxima, 3series BMW, Lexus IS, etc)...even if that means my repair costs are a little higher. Over here in Europe (been living in Italy for nearly 2 years now) there are lots of great car designs that are very elegant yet very useful as an all around vehicle. Its sad we will never see most of them in the States. Ok Im done. Nick.

Andy, I don't think anything short of some sort of electromagnetic force-field could keep my German Shepherd's hair in the back of the car only! And I have not yet found a shop-vac powerful enough to suck a wirey German Shep hair out of a cloth car seat....and Im a real neat freak. Its really great when you roll the windows down and it blows around the car as you go down the road. I love my dog though....the benefits outweigh the costs for us. Best of luck shopping! Nick.

I think you have made the right decision. My wife and I are thinking about the exact same Subaru models to buy in the next few months. The H6-3.0 would sure be nice, but its as much as a 3-series BMW wagon and (very sadly) comes only in an automatic.....(Im sure I will get flamed by several on this board for comparing to a BMW) The Outback is nice, but we really have no need for the extra ground clearance or all that Tupperware bolted to it. Leather is a requirement since we have a dog, so the Legacy Limited Wagon 5-speed or the 2.5GT Wagon 5-speed seems to be the obvious choice. Basically the only options we want are the premium sound system, the security upgrade kit, and the air filtration system. Enjoy your new ride!

Say hey to Fort Collins, eh! I was born and raised there. Great town. Now I live...well...far away from there!