Ignition delay no clicking

[Dulcineigha]

Hi everybody... I've been a lurker for a while, but after surfing forums I'm still stumped by my Subaru's electrical gremlin. It's an automatic, 1999 (30th Anniversary Edition) Legacy Sedan. I'll appreciate input from anyone with ideas or similar problems.

 

Symptoms:

There's a delay between turning the key to START position and the car starting. There is total silence, not a single click (in steering column or at starter). All the other electrical systems seem to be functioning normally at that time (doors, radio, headlights, dome light, etc).

Check engine light has NEVER been on, and I do get the expected dashboard lights when I try to start it.

Usually if I hold the key in the START position, or if I turn the key several times, it will start... as in, it fires up immediately. I don't even hear the starting turning more than minimally required. I turn the key and VROOM!!!

Sometimes it won't start at all, but if I leave it for a while (even to go inside and grab my coat 'cause I'll be walking to work) and then try again it fires right up.

I can start the car in Park or Neutral, but changing gears doesn't help when it won't start... nor does pushing the gearshift forward harder.

It only happens in the morning, and seems to be related to cold weather.

After repairs (list to follow), the delay eventually returns but is brief, then it gets longer, then it doesn't start without a few tries, then it won't start at all, etc.

 

Last year I had my mechanic replace the "ignition"... I don't know the term, but I ended up with a new key... I don't know if the ignition switch is a separate component so I can't say for sure if that was replaced. Naturally my mechanic can't recall (but thinks it was all apiece).

When that didn't help I took out the starter, took it to a shop where it tested "bad", so I replaced it with a rebuilt one (hope I won't regret that... it was a bear to get it in and out around all the other parts).

The problem seemed fine until this fall when it all started again. Finally it wouldn't start, and I had the battery tested... "bad". I was told that it should have lasted longer and got a prorated price on the new one. After replacing the battery last week, it is still pausing before starting.

 

Other electrical issues:

The light under the shifter illuminates VERY VERY rarely (as in, I think it's come on twice in the last three years).

Last year, the speedometer started to fail intermittently... the needle just sags. When I turn the radio off, there's a slight delay, and then the needle jumps back up to where it ought to be and it works fine again. It's infrequent, so I haven't addressed the issue... but some posts on this site indicate that the speedometer head is an issue for this model/year.

It has an aftermarket alarm system, and I'm wondering if somebody screwed up something during the installation.

 

So... do I replace the neutral safety switch? Starter relay? What else IS there? Does this sound like a switch or a connection issue? Think I've got a mysterious electrical drain somewhere? The battery terminals are clean, the cable to the starter also fine. I'm planning on getting a friend with a voltmeter to help me this weekend, but electrical stuff freaks me out so I'm not well-versed or really gung-ho. I'm also having trouble finding a wiring diagram, which would be a BIG help.

 

Thanks, everybody.

The game's afoot!

~D

[lmdew]

Remove the after market alarm system. I've seen the same symptoms with others. If you look under the dash, you will see the large wires which go to your ignition switch are cut!

 

The alarm is spliced in. Remove that junk and but it back to original and your problems should go away!

[dylanjohns]

Thanks Skip.

this works on most subarus such as my 98 subaru legacy 2.5 gt.

there are also several others on here.

I dont think its your alarm system, but im not an expert just someone with an overactive stock alarm system and ex starter problems.

http://www.svx-iw.com/svxiw/article/?article=196 good link with pics. search for this problem and you will find tons of stuff on this issue.

 

There are currently several active posts on starter engagement problems.

I thought this may be of interest. (Please note, this article only refers to 1989 and earlier Subarus, newer Loyales MTs may have a clutch interrupt switch, see ** below)

 

First to dispel info given in reference to any relays involved.

There are none, repeat no relays come on a factory equipped car. As will be seen it is a reliable fix to add one, but there is no relay used for starter engagement.

 

The ignition switch, when in the start position, feeds battery voltage directly to the starter solenoid unless the vehicle has an automatic transmission. In this case, there is an inhibitor switch in the console which only allows the control voltage to reach the starter solenoid in the park or neutral position. Just a switch no relay.

(Note: Some may argue the starter solenoid is a relay, in an operational sense they are correct, in semantics -- I will refer to it as the factory does.)

 

**Newer Loyales may have a clutch pedal switch. This switch located up under the dash in the path of the pedal swing arm, is depressed and thus in a "closed" position, when the clutch pedal is in a fully depressed state.

 

If when you turn the ignition switch to the start position the starter fails to engage -

A) It is possible that a battery cable or it's connection is dirty, loose, or corroded - thus creating high resistance.

Here is a quick test.

Hold the ignition in the start position for five seconds. Open the hood and place your hand on all battery connections and cable ends to feel for a warm connection. IF the starter has engaged and there is some current passing through a connection with high resistance - heat will be generated. Green colored or other "odd looking" connections are always suspects.

It is possible that the starter solenoid internal contacts have burned and are not making full contact. While holding the ignition switch in the start position a sharp "rap" on the solenoid may jar the contacts into a closed position allowing the starter to engage.

If this is the case you can elect to repair/replace the contacts or replace the solenoid/starter.

C) If the above tests prove unsatisfactory, it is likely the ignition switch itself has problems. The starter solenoid needs a fair amount of current to energize. This puts the contacts in the ignition switch under duress. To test this, connect a "jumper" wire from the positive battery terminal to the small spade connector located on the starter solenoid. One will have to remove the factory connector before "jumping" the solenoid.

(Please make sure car is in neutral or Park before doing this test)

If the jumper wire allows the starter to engage, there are several fixes that can be employed.

 

1) Replace ignition switch - labor and $$ intensive, beyond the scope of this article.

 

2) Install a "Never Fail" button/ switch. This button (momentary switch) is wired to feed the control voltage to the starter solenoid, thus bypassing the ignition switch. A "make shift" solution at best. It will work and is a simple matter of wiring.

to wit:

a) Get a 10 amp momentary switch from the source of your choosing.

Find a suitable mounting point for said switch. Most dashes have several "blanks" to choose from, or mount it under the dash as a secret switch.

you will need a "feed voltage source".

You could

i) probe your fuse panel for an ignition switched "hot fuse".

ii) run a fused connection directly to the battery

iii) place a tap on the main ignition feed connector under the steering col. Since you will be running this voltage to the starter and through the bulkhead (firewall) a fused source should be used.

This "feeder" is connected to one side of the procured switch.

c) The other side of the switch is wired to the small spade connector on the starter solenoid. The proper method is to splice solder the wire to the existing wire, but some may stuff it under the female connector and slide the spade back in place. Please use a grommet or other form of protection when passing the wire through the bulkhead.

 

These connection methods will allow the use of the normal ignition switch start position but when it fails the "Never Fail" button is used. If you choose to simply put a female spade connector on this wire and plug it on to the starter solenoid, the "Never Fail" will be the only way to get the car to start.

 

3) The best method, in my admittedly feeble mind, is the addition

of a "start relay". This relay supplements the ignition switch and requires no "Never Fail" folderol (like in a case where some one borrows the car and you forget to tell them about the "Never Fail")

The relay is controlled by the ignition switch and it in turn feeds the current necessary for starter solenoid engagement.

An "auxiliary lighting" relay is a good choice, but any 12Vdc 10 amp relay will suffice. I mount mine under the hood and in the general location of the starter. This allows use of the factory female connector and simplifies getting a fused battery feed voltage.

Here is the wiring of said relay.

 

 

 

Hope this helps and please email me any corrections for any details I may have missed.

neper at westol.com[/color]

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Edited November 29, 2011 by dylanjohns