lesstutrey Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I drive a 2002 OBW VDC that i lifted up 2" (strut top). I had been waiting for my old tires to go before i got rubber this fall. No such luck, hole in the sidewall from sun rot and northern illinois road chemicals and i think a stick broke them. Still had over a 1/4" of tread left. Whatever, they're gone now. Been debating what type of AT tire to go with for the roo for a long time, geolanders or at2s. Then i noticed this tire, and said screw geolanders (don't care for them, and this is a better tread design IMO). And AT2s aren't very nice for the driving i do in this vehicle (also have a CJ8 for real off-road work, but it doesn't go on the highway much with Nitto Mud Grapplers). So i got these, had em installed. I knew that a 235/60 R16 might have rub issues at full extension in steering. Sure enough if i have some issues, with speed in a U turn i get some rub. The tire hits the rear control arm connector wheel well area. Not something i can bash in. Because i lifted the vehicle it brought the wheels in a little bit (i'm a redneck, we lift things, we also replace control arms when doing it if we're not dumb). Because i got a wider tire, it had more chance to rub. On a stock height one, i think rub might not be an issue, dunno. But it is an issue. I can say "well screw turning at full extension" and take the cut in turning radius, but the fact of the matter is, at some point i'm going to have to turn like that, and i'd rather just eliminate the rub all together. Plus, i don't like to compromise, i want it done right (taking the same attitude with the 73 nova i'm restoring now)! I figure i need a spacer in the 10mm ballpark, since that is the profile increase and it's only rubbing now that they're wider . Probably an 8mm. Does anyone know if i'll have issues with my lugs running 8-10mm of spacer? I'd rather not buy an expensive hub-centric one with extra lugs, but if i'm not gonna have enough thread if i get that thick of a spacer, i obviously need to get a nicer one (probably get a 15mm if i go the hubcentric route). Any feedback would be very appreciated. Apart from the rub i LOVE these tires and think they spank geolanders.. but cost a WEEEE bit more, but hey, USA Made. Edited August 30, 2012 by lesstutrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Spacers may help, but I'm thinking in your case they will make it worse. The outside tread of the tire is rubbing? Adding a spacer increases the distance from the knuckle pivot center to the wheel, which makes the turning area circle of the wheel wider. The outermost edge of the tire will be further forward/ back when turned to full lock. If its the inside tread thats rubbing a spacer will help, but you still have to worry about adding too much spacer. And any time you add a spacer you risk breaking lug nuts and losing a wheel. I would consider a wheel with a slightly different offset before going the spacer route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 I would say the tread isn't rubbing at all, the sidewall is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 So the inner sidewall is rubbing against the frame? Can you turn the wheel to full lock when sitting still without it touching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Can you turn the wheel to full lock when sitting still without it touching? Yes, i can also turn SLOWLY (idle speed) at full extension without rub. But basically, don't buy spacers, get spacer adapters so i don't break the studs. I should take a picture of the spot it's rubbing at so you get what i'm saying. really obviously where it's rubbing, the wheel well is shiny there And it will be on the INSIDE wheel on the turn (so normally my drivers side unless i'm going in reverse, and even then i don't think it rubs, since the rear tire becomes pivot point) . I had this SAME issue when i forgot to air up one of my mxv4 tires after running on sand and was like wtf is the rubber squeak.. OHHHHHH sidewall rub. Edited August 30, 2012 by lesstutrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) So any recommendations on this? I am positive it is tire rub on the inner sidewall, it happens when the car leans toward the car and the tire shifts a little during the turn (they're supposed to) and like i say, it's only at full extension doing a u turn or maneuvering through a tight parking lot, but it's a situation i encounter regularly. I can do most u-turns without the rub, but parking lots are the real issue. It's really obvious where the rub is too, because there is no tar or dirt in the wheel well on the 2x1/2" spot it's rubbing So, is a spacer going to help, i don't see why it wouldn't? Also, how big do i go with the spacer.. i mean hypothetically the tire should only be 5mm closer so i was thinking 5mm spacer at most 8mm. This will not cause issue with it rubbing the upper wheel well or anything either, in large part due to the lift (not only higher up, the stance was narrowed around 1" i'd say, but that is only a guess). I can't see how one could do a 4-6" lift without needing spacers/spacer adapters with this vehicle, only because of the front. On a side note this tire is are AMAZING at highway speeds. I don't miss my MXV4's on the highway, and i love these on gravel, though they'll pick up a rock or two, but i think any tire will.. including slicks, granted these are 1/2" or so sized rocks and a slick picks up tiny pebbles. Definitely pick up rocks more than a standard all season touring tire, simply because the tread is much more widely spaced. I'd like to see them mounted on a non-lifted one and see if the rub issue still exists. I think it wouldn't. Edited September 4, 2012 by lesstutrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Cars with taller lifts don't typically have problems because the entire drivetrain and suspension is lowered by blocks. The larger lifts bring the control arms down at both ends so the angle of the arm is not much different than a stock vehicle. IMO you should find wheels with the offset you need rather than use spacers. A 1 or 2mm spacer might be fine, but anything more than that brings the centric bore of the wheel away from the hub, which places all of the strain of holding the car up on just the lug nuts. An offset wheel will still sit on the hub, which is much more secure. If you really want to go the spacer route, one that bolts to the hub and provides new lug studs may be the best way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) There are also hubcentric spacers.. don't know a thing about them, and if they'd help keep stress off the lugs. Doubt it. You are right, trying to find the right offset isn't a terrible idea. they're 48's so 35 offset sounds right.. right? Obviously BS has to be at least 1/3" inch less as well. Also, from what i've read the spacers where you add extended lugs are more durable, but then i read stuff that says the opposite. What i read on jeep forums says if you maintain them and get decent ones, you won't have issues. Maintaining is apparently using red locktite on the inner bolts and making sure they're up to torque after 100 and then 500 miles, then at oil change time. All i can find is people who don't trust them, but have no evidence on why not, and people who say they've run them and work fine and don't even need to be re-torqued when checked, although i wonder about using red lock on something that needs to be checked for torque after a few hundred miles and then on regular basis. Oh, and the stock lug studs are 20mm. If i get another set of wheels they're gonna be steels, cause i ain't spending much money on em! The main stuff i'm reading says one of two things get H&R spacers or get nice hubcentrics and get ARP racing studs. They're 3" so 10mm spacer seems doable. That's actually long enough i'd want to make sure my spacer was big enough that my lugs wouldn't bottom out when tightening them. Assuming wrx studs are the same studs other scoobies use. Edited September 5, 2012 by lesstutrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I don't get it. I know exactly what shiny spot you're talking about since I run 235/70 BFG MT's. You have two options that are much cheaper than spacers. 1. Don't turn so tight. 2. Use the shiny spot as a target and hit it with a BFH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 I don't get it. I know exactly what shiny spot you're talking about since I run 235/70 BFG MT's. You have two options that are much cheaper than spacers. 1. Don't turn so tight. 2. Use the shiny spot as a target and hit it with a BFH! The not turning so tight is really not an option, i try not to, but when i drive around parking lots.. it's kinda hard to avoid. The shiny spot is where the wheel well covers the connector for the control arm, i don't think i can bash it even a few mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Just went at both sides with BFH Any audible rub is gone. Need to get some crap in the wheel wells to see if that silver spot comes back but i spent a minute doing full extension turns in a parking lot around a light post, as fast as, i could in both directions and did not HEAR a damn thing. I'll probably spend some more time bashing on them but my arm is sore.. i spent 2 hours doing it. Further inspection made me realize that the spot it was rubbing was in fact above the connection point so was bashable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) also.. could probably run about a 28-29" tire on this thing, of course that is speculation 100%, i have no clue about how tall you can go before hitting strut top crap.. 235x70 BFG MTs wouldn't be bad. Have people unsuccessfully tried 225x70? I could see it potentially giving strut hat rub, though i'm nowhere near it. With 215 you could probably do it without bashing a thing. Still plenty of room between the tire and strut hat, granted i got .5" more height in the tire, and its nowhere close to the sides of the wheel wells. I'ma take some pictures tomorrow, figure i'll go for a drive and try and get muddy, and then add them to the lifted roo thread. We finally got some rain so i can take the road that turns into dirt and i think technically dead ends somewhere, but instead comes out on the side of someones property. one more tank of gas and i'll have these fully broken in. And i guess finding some 15s that clear the brakes would probably give me better selection of tires. Edited September 6, 2012 by lesstutrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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