pvenuti Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) This photo is of a broken rocker arm from an EJ22 using solid lifters and a Delta cam. Can anyone tell me how common an occurrence is it for a rocker arm to break? Is there any more likeliness for this to occur with solid vs hydraulic lifters? Any insight greatly appreciated. Edited June 4, 2013 by pvenuti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 What engine was this being used in and what cam grind were you running? Did that rocker assembly & solid lifters come in that engine from the factory or did you swap it into your engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 It's an EJ22. I know the grind as low end torque. The rockers and lifters where swaped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capn_r Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Were the roller rockers use on the cams meant for the other style rockers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Sorry I don't follow the question about the rockers used on the cams. I think you may be asking a similar question to above which is was the head originally setup with hydraulic lifters and corresponding roller rockers (YES). Where the solid lifters and rockers swapped into this engine as a performance mod with the new cam(also YES). As I understand it this is a pretty common thing to do so we where surprised to see the roller snapped off around 5k miles on a rebuild done by one of the larger compaines. Edited June 5, 2013 by pvenuti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I am rather surprised that it broke "downwards". The only time I have snapped any rockers on anything, it broke "upwards", away from the cam lobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 NorthWet thanks for the response. Have you seen many snap is it a thing or rather unusual? Can anyone else comment on the rarity of this happening. I ask because we need to put it back together and want to know if the solid lifters and delta cam are a problematic combination. If so what do people recommend, would Hydraulic lifters be any more forgiving in this situation? What's the downside to going with the Hydraulic ones. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I have not heard of rocker breakage issues in the EJs, but I deal mostly with old-gen stuff. The engine (non-Subaru) that I have seen break rockers snapped the ends off in an "upward" direction due to not having reset clearances after a valve job. Some valves contacted the piston during first start-up... I think that some of the previous questions regarding cam and rockers was to find out if the cam and rockers were matched for the application: Is the cam grind designed for roller-rockers and non-hydraulic tappets? There MIGHT be some theoretical performance advantage for solid tappets, but probably far outweighed by the practicality of not having to keep the clearances properly set. Also, the solid tappets were probably cheaper to produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Had a phase 2 do thiss the retaner bolt came loose and rockers were floating and smashed them selfs up and bolt got between the cam and rocker made a mess had to change whole rocker asembly in your case looks like roller bering failed in roller wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 This is great stuff guys please keep the thoughts coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Had a phase 2 do thiss the retaner bolt came loose and rockers were floating and smashed them selfs up and bolt got between the cam and rocker made a mess had to change whole rocker asembly in your case looks like roller bering failed in roller wheel Sounds like the best answer yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 I agree. I guess its good not to hear that this is a common problem or the combination has been found to be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Have you contacted Delta cam about this? If not, it might be a good idea to see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 So was thinking about the damage to valve train is it posibble that the valve spring retainer hit the top of valve giude ? is the valve seal damaged the higher lift cam may have pushed father than the valve spring has room to compress bottoming out and causeing damage. I put a high lift cam in a ea81 i had to grind down the valve giude slighty to alow for the higher lift. Or the oil feed hole for roller got pluged and it ran dry mind you then it whould be blue and show shigns of heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Ivans Imports thanks for the thought we will have to look into that. Right now the engine builder is sending hydraulic lifters as they feel the solid ones where a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 That's not broken. What I mean is, the metal was not cracked to cause that failure. The shiny parts you see are where the cam lobe ground into the rocker. The center bearing shaft (standing up on end in the background) slid out of the rocker arm and allowed the roller to fall out. This could be due to lack of oil to the bearing of the roller as Ivan said. I think it's more likely that the set screw or shear pin that holds the roller shaft in place fell out. The type of lash adjuster had nothing to do with the failure. People interchange solid and hydraulic lash adjuster roller rocker arms all the time. The cams used for these style rockers are the same regardless of the lash adjuster type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The cams are diferent roller to hydrolic have made thiss mistake before will not run right i put roller train on hydrlic cam with bad results did not run right at all but did not damage train with cams side by side you can realy see the diference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 You're thinking the 90-94 tappet style vs 95-98 roller style rockers which, are different, and do use different cam profiles. But the two types of roller style rockers, solid lash adjuster and hydraulic lash adjuster, are interchangeable, and use the same cam profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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