subaru overheating

[bk2]

Just wanted to introduce myself -name is Bryan and I am an owner of a 1985 Subaru GL Wagon front wheel 1.8 manual tran. I picked this girl up for 400 bucks, that is 70,000 km ago and she is at 205,000km....

 

I have babied vehicles before, maintenance and washing until it sparkled all to get bills coming out my ears. This subaru only gets washed when it rains....lol. In this time frame (70,000) I personally change the oil like crazy, did a couple slick 50 treatments, and the normal plugs, distributor cap/router, air filters.....

 

Reason I am here is to get money saving tips....from you pros.

 

I have a couple big hills here in BC where I visit and pickup my kids. As we progress into the summer the temp will slowly start rising on the ol temp guage. So I do the pre-cool down techniques by turning the heater fan on full with all the windows down a minute or so before the hills -I have touched just the start of the red yesterday.

 

I would appreciate if a person could take me through the complete checklist from the free ones to the ones that cost money.

 

I have done some tests myself but would like to again go through everything....even the purging for air locks....hoses....proper thermostats...etc....cheap fixes....hopefully.

 

What is strange when I pulled up to a stop light and also when I drove into my garage just yesterday there was this sound of rushing water running under my dash...lol... it would speed up with rpm. The temp guage is at normal operating temp.

 

thanks for the help everyone....

[hooziewhatsit]

welcome to the forums!

 

you'll probably find that cooling is one of the biggest killers of these cars.

 

The gurgling sound in the dash is most likely coming from the heater core. This indicates air in the system, which only hurts cooling. To burp the system, get the nose as high as you can while it's cold. Take the rad cap off and let it warm up, adding water/coolant as needed while squeezing hoses. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the coolant/rad cap if it hasn't been done before in a while.

 

A quick test on the radiator itself is to check for any obvious fin rot, clogged fins, etc. After it's warm, you'll want to *carefully* feel around for hot/cold spots. If there are any present, you'd probably be best off with a new radiator.

 

another potential problem could be the thermostat. They're known to get old and not open all the way, constricting coolant flow and cooling.

 

btw, I've had mine for almost 6 years now... washed once formally, the rest of the time by the rain :cool:

 

good luck

[bk2]

welcome to the forums!

 

you'll probably find that cooling is one of the biggest killers of these cars.

 

The gurgling sound in the dash is most likely coming from the heater core. This indicates air in the system, which only hurts cooling. To burp the system, get the nose as high as you can while it's cold. Take the rad cap off and let it warm up, adding water/coolant as needed while squeezing hoses. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the coolant/rad cap if it hasn't been done before in a while.

 

A quick test on the radiator itself is to check for any obvious fin rot, clogged fins, etc. After it's warm, you'll want to *carefully* feel around for hot/cold spots. If there are any present, you'd probably be best off with a new radiator.

 

another potential problem could be the thermostat. They're known to get old and not open all the way, constricting coolant flow and cooling.

 

btw, I've had mine for almost 6 years now... washed once formally, the rest of the time by the rain :cool:

 

good luck

 

 

************

 

Thanks for the info. I will go outside and do the burping now.....and then run it and check for the cold spots....will get back soon....

[bk2]

************

 

Thanks for the info. I will go outside and do the burping now.....and then run it and check for the cold spots....will get back soon....

 

so the burping is it better done with beer? )

[bk2]

I must say that the gushing water sound in the heater core is quiet now......the temperature at idle goes to 3/8 of an inch below red.

 

There is good circulation in the rad my friend said and that means the thermostat is opening good. There are no bubbles either.

 

There is no loss of antifreeze. Oil looks good....burning a tad still....getting old.

 

.....those steep hills will still need the heater fan on full I feel....another hot summer in the mountains....lol....

 

any other ideas...?

[bk2]

to note: The rad is pretty warm over the entirety of the whole rad no notable cold spots to feel. The fan works. I ran the vehicle for 30 minutes -it idles rather high....1000 rpm....never overheated.

 

my friend who has some mechanical experience told me it was not my HG....and might be looking towards vacumn advance or timing belt.

 

before I go here I want to exhaust all options before I even start thinking of that timing stuff as I do not know how to put a timing belt(s) on or have any experience riping out or rebuilding distributors....lol.

 

so what is next my expert subaru friends?

 

so just a little low in potassium is all...

[NorthWet]

Not to beat a dead horse, but how did you check the rad for cold spots? did you remove one of the fans (e.g. - the electric fan) and felt top to bottom?

[critical_max]

coolant temperature sensor can cause problems if it goes out...

 

Is your engine going through a lot of coolant, i.e. does it need to be refilled often?

[bk2]

I used my hand.......with the battery cable off....I used my fingers....crammed them in there for a while....checked all over the rad like that.....

 

I also have white finger from being a professional logger .....so one might shake their head......I told my friend that I was going to buy a new rad to make sure.....he started to get pretty fussy....and said you are just going to waste your money on it.....sell it....lol....

 

I have a disability so I have a very minimum income....it is a life line to see my children and get to physio and hospital too....

 

Is there another way to check the rad????? I will definitely check it your way....it does not cost anything...

 

Will await your recommendations....thanks for your help...

[bk2]

coolant temperature sensor can cause problems if it goes out...

 

Is your engine going through a lot of coolant, i.e. does it need to be refilled often?

 

Actually, Critial Max - when I parked the ol girl on the steep driveway hill...I thought I was going to need a lot of coolant.....filled to top.....with no more than 3/4 cup full. I believe there was a small air pocket in there.

 

When the fan was running without the cap on the water never overflowed but was moving pretty good from what my friend said.

 

Concerning the temperature sensor (coolant) - I believe you are referring to the one that is mounted into the rad? Last year I replaced that with another one and did not make a difference.

 

I do not know if this is what you meant.....hope this helps....I appreciate the help from everyone ..... your all great....!

[hooziewhatsit]

Ideally to check the temperature of the rad you'd take the electric fan off (4 bolts + plug) and/or take the shroud off of the main fan (again, 4 bolts).

 

Then you can easily feel with around with your palm (with the engine off if need be).

 

the temp sensor looking thing in the radiator is actually a thermoswitch. When it gets hot enough it turns the electric fan on.

 

The temp sensor they were refering to are located right by the thermostat.

 

To find them, look here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=27784&highlight=coolant+temp+sensor

[bk2]

Ideally to check the temperature of the rad you'd take the electric fan off (4 bolts + plug) and/or take the shroud off of the main fan (again, 4 bolts).

 

Then you can easily feel with around with your palm (with the engine off if need be).

 

the temp sensor looking thing in the radiator is actually a thermoswitch. When it gets hot enough it turns the electric fan on.

 

The temp sensor they were refering to are located right by the thermostat.

 

To find them, look here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=27784&highlight=coolant+temp+sensor

 

******************

 

So the temp sensor is the main temperature gauge that we see displayed inside on the dash....hmmmm think we are getting somewhere here. Would be a treat to see that this was the only problem. It that sensor expensive? Can call Lordco... stuff like this would drive the normal person nuts....lol....will look into the site....

 

thank you so much...for the info..

[bk2]

Not to beat a dead horse, but how did you check the rad for cold spots? did you remove one of the fans (e.g. - the electric fan) and felt top to bottom?

 

thanks for the help....this might be silly.... but you said one of the fans...? Now is this subaru suppose to have two....))) I have to say I only bought it with one.....now if there is suppose to be I do think we might have a solution here...))

 

stranger things have happened...lol.

 

anyway if I have to take the electric fan off I will surely warm up the vehicle to operating temp.....shut it off...disconnect the power to the fan and then take it off....and check the whole thing out. the rad is not a perfect looking thing either....will check it tomorrow....

 

thank you very much for the help I will definitely recheck it to make sure.....if I am not comfortable will take it to a rad shop.....as the rad is the main cooling .....

[bk2]

thanks for the help....this might be silly.... but you said one of the fans...? Now is this subaru suppose to have two....))) I have to say I only bought it with one.....now if there is suppose to be I do think we might have a solution here...))

 

stranger things have happened...lol.

 

anyway if I have to take the electric fan off I will surely warm up the vehicle to operating temp.....shut it off...disconnect the power to the fan and then take it off....and check the whole thing out. the rad is not a perfect looking thing either....will check it tomorrow....

 

thank you very much for the help I will definitely recheck it to make sure.....if I am not comfortable will take it to a rad shop.....as the rad is the main cooling .....

 

 

*******************************

 

 

Well things just sort of happen for a reason.

 

2 days ago I changed my oil and oil filter....formula 1 Canadian tire special 10W 30 and their oil filter....my vehicle was not smoking at all before this change....lol.

 

today the ol girl is smoking white blue smoke and smells of fresh oil....tink this 1985 soobi will be hitting the heap if someone cannot figure it out....lol.

 

as you can see from my initial troubles they are getting too complicated for this boy....lol.

 

anyone in the Okanagan BC area with a 400 dollar subaru that runs good....I do not care what it looks like.....just want it safe for the kids.....

 

my buddy Frank says get another vehicle....and that it is old is only burning oil....I do think there is something big time wrong with this machine....my gut is calling out to me...

 

thanks guys....any info????

[85Sub4WD]

um... sounds like your head gasket blew from overheating or you have crappy oil in it - I am thinking poor oil, b/c it started doing it after the oil change (makes sense) - Castrol GTX is a good economy oil, Purolator, Wix and OEM are preferable filters - Frams have a nasty habbit of disintigrating and destroying your engine - if you have under 200k miles on it, I would be surprized if you had blown the head gasket - a compression test will tell all - don't chuck it yet!!

 

what antifreeze mixture were you running? - I assume 50/50? - don't go more than about 60% antifreeze or else the engine will not cool properly (antifreeze does not transfer heat well) - the thermoswitch can be bypassed with a small piece of wire and two male blade connectors - makes fan run all the time the ignition is in on/acc - I did that a while back w/ no cooling probs since - replace the thermostat (if you haven't already) with an OEM one - aftermarket ones are literally garbage - they WILL cause your engine to overheat - had a nasty time with a CarQuest one ...

 

generally speaking, OEM parts are WORTH THE MONEY, even if they can be expensive, because aftermarket ones do not last nearly as long, and can damage your car

[subynut]

If it's just burning alot of oil, that sounds like worn rings and/or valve guides. You might try runniing half 10w-40 and half 20w-50. I did that to my Suby B4 it died and dropped from 2 qts a fillup to 1 qt a fillup. Justa way to help decreace your oil consumsion.

On your cooling system, have you tried doing a full coolant flush? Might pick up one of those cooling flush kits from wal-mart or your favorite autoparts store. Easy to install. That might loosen up any junk on the cooling system. Also would swap out the t-stat with a Subaru t-stat. Do you notice any bubbles comming up from the radiator while the engine is running? THat could indicate a toast Head gasket. Other signs are oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil.

Just some other ideas 4 ya.

[phishy75]

I wouldn't run 10w30 oil in an old sube like that - especially if you know it burns/leaks some oil. Summer is coming, so throw some 20w50 in there and it should last a lot longer.

 

As for the cooling problem, it sounds like your rad and t-stat are working fine, as long as you are sure the rad is warm all over after running.

You might try a 180 t-stat, but it is more likely the coolant temp sensor goen south.

 

just my 2 bits...

 

I hope she holds up for you. If I were a little closer I'd come over and take a look myself. Good luck

 

 

[quote name=bk2

Well things just sort of happen for a reason.

 

2 days ago I changed my oil and oil filter....formula 1 Canadian tire special 10W 30 and their oil filter....my vehicle was not smoking at all before this change....lol.

 

today the ol girl is smoking white blue smoke and smells of fresh oil....tink this 1985 soobi will be hitting the heap if someone cannot figure it out....lol.

 

as you can see from my initial troubles they are getting too complicated for this boy....lol.

 

anyone in the Okanagan BC area with a 400 dollar subaru that runs good....I do not care what it looks like.....just want it safe for the kids.....

 

my buddy Frank says get another vehicle....and that it is old is only burning oil....I do think there is something big time wrong with this machine....my gut is calling out to me...

 

thanks guys....any info????[/quote]

[bk2]

um... sounds like your head gasket blew from overheating or you have crappy oil in it - I am thinking poor oil, b/c it started doing it after the oil change - Castrol GTX is a good economy oil, Purolator, Wix and OEM are preferable filters - Frams have a nasty habbit of disintigrating and destroying your engine

 

what antifreeze mixture were you running? - I assume 50/50? - don't go more than about 60% antifreeze or else the engine will not cool properly (antifreeze does not transfer heat well) - the thermoswitch can be bypassed with a small piece of wire and two male blade connectors - makes fan run all the time the ignition is in on/acc - I did that a while back w/ no cooling probs since - replace the thermostat (if you haven't already) with an OEM one - aftermarket ones are literally garbage - they WILL cause your engine to overheat - had a nasty time with a CarQuest one ...

 

*************

actually I have never gone into the red but just below.......but I do not know what the person did to it 4 years ago....they could have had a melt down with it ....lol......as I found many different types of thermostats in boxes....

 

sooner or later at a high temp something will give as you know....

 

I usually use quakerstate and it has been good....then the oil change then all of a sudden this mess....and you are right.....a Fram filter...and yes I am upset about it....I will change the oil and the filter again.....and take that other oil that was onsale back to Canadian Tire....that was terrible.

 

I will also check the coolant ratio....you never know I might have over 50-50....so will do that again and see.

 

Concerning thermostats the subaru dealer here states for my vehicle that I should be using a 88 C thermostat and nothing else because of overhead cam....hmmmm now is that 195? now have to look at my conversion charts..lol.

 

If you could describe the technique of keeping the fan on all the time that would be appreciated....thanks.

 

Your spirit is always higher when someone thinks it is not a blown head gasket....loll....how hard is it to put in? the gasket is 34.50.... would that hold it temporarily or do you need the whole 180 dollar kit for it?

 

Will check the things you told me to look at...

 

Thanks ...

[85Sub4WD]

ditto on the oil - 10w-30 is probably too light, I run that, but mine has been babied 99% of its entire life (my family bought it new) - I would recommend 15w-40 or heavier for engine - these engines are not like modern Japanese engines with super-light oil requirements, they need a pretty heavy oil to function well

[subynut]

88 C I think is the same as the 195 F. Or abouts the same.

Head gasklets is easiest with the engine out.

[85Sub4WD]

I think we posted at about the same time!

 

I am really thinking it is not a head gasket at this point - you need a 180-degree thermostat - 82-degrees celsius - no, it is not original spec, but it is best

 

I had to make that change on my soob - was overheating in much the same way - found I had too much antifreeze, and a lower temp thermostat - hasn't overheated since

 

I don't mess with Quaker State oil because it has serious wax issues - can gum-up and spin bearings - I had to overhaul an engine once in which Quaker State had been used - had to redo a whole lot of stuff, ended up selling it for a $150 core, because it wasn't worth the trouble - I usually use Castrol, because it cheap (natural stuff is, here at least) and reliable

my family has used it since 1972, and not had any problems

[bk2]

I wouldn't run 10w30 oil in an old sube like that - especially if you know it burns/leaks some oil. Summer is coming, so throw some 20w50 in there and it should last a lot longer.

 

As for the cooling problem, it sounds like your rad and t-stat are working fine, as long as you are sure the rad is warm all over after running.

You might try a 180 t-stat, but it is more likely the coolant temp sensor goen south.

 

just my 2 bits...

 

I hope she holds up for you. If I were a little closer I'd come over and take a look myself. Good luck

 

lol...yes I did miss your response...

 

I will put some of that 20W-50 in it.... Castrol....as someone said is good...hopefully solves that smoking problem I have never had that before...hope it isn't from parking and running the vehicle on my steep driveway while I was burping the coolant...

 

Also will be checking to make sure of the coolant mix too.

 

Will check out the rad again -one of the experts said to take off the fan and make sure everything is warm/hot with no cold spots. Rads are on sale here for 130 bucks at canadian tire...might not be the best eh???

 

Subaru thermostats are 40 bucks here too....wow very expensive as compared to 10 bucks.

 

Also a person told me about the flushing kit..... I put one of those on last year for a flush......it was warm last year too but never has overheated or touched the red.....don't know if the previous owner overheated it though.

 

I believe there is another way to test out a HG.... take a plug out and put some pressure in it? and if the coolant bubbles there is a leak....how much pressure is enough??? I was just wondering.

 

thanks again for the help everyone.....it is very depressing when a person is trying to save their lifeline.... This is not a Chevy....it is a Subaru...

 

[phishy75]

definitely go for the 20w50 as long as you guys aren't getting below freezing at night still.

 

Everyone here really goes for OEM stuff, and for the most part it is a good idea. I, however, am cheap (or parsimonious as I like to say:lol: ) and often go the cheap route - i.e. jobber parts. Especially since I get parts for wholesale prices from a buddy. I've put in three felpro head gaskets (all different ones I might add) with no problems, as well as lots of other non-OEM parts.

As far as t-stats go, you really should go for the 180 degree, and since you can't get it from the dealer, go to Lordco or whatever store you like. Your subie and your wallet will like you for it.

 

Definitely do a good check on the rad before you go and buy a new one. Take off the fan (simply four bolts and the electrical connection) and idle the car with the rad cap off until you are sure the coolant is circulating. Make sure not to let the temp get too high!!! Then shut her down and feel around really well on the rad. If you are finding some cold spots, a good flush just might solve your problem.

 

The easiest way to test the HG is to buy a compression tester (not sure on the price but not too much) and check the compression in each cylinder. You can find the procedure by doing a search - it is very easy. Of course if you are seeing water in your oil or smelling exhaut in the coolant you can skip that step. I agree that you probably don't have a blown HG, but you never know.

 

Best of luck

[bk2]

definitely go for the 20w50 as long as you guys aren't getting below freezing at night still.

 

Everyone here really goes for OEM stuff, and for the most part it is a good idea. I, however, am cheap (or parsimonious as I like to say:lol: ) and often go the cheap route - i.e. jobber parts. Especially since I get parts for wholesale prices from a buddy. I've put in three felpro head gaskets (all different ones I might add) with no problems, as well as lots of other non-OEM parts.

As far as t-stats go, you really should go for the 180 degree, and since you can't get it from the dealer, go to Lordco or whatever store you like. Your subie and your wallet will like you for it.

 

Definitely do a good check on the rad before you go and buy a new one. Take off the fan (simply four bolts and the electrical connection) and idle the car with the rad cap off until you are sure the coolant is circulating. Make sure not to let the temp get too high!!! Then shut her down and feel around really well on the rad. If you are finding some cold spots, a good flush just might solve your problem.

 

The easiest way to test the HG is to buy a compression tester (not sure on the price but not too much) and check the compression in each cylinder. You can find the procedure by doing a search - it is very easy. Of course if you are seeing water in your oil or smelling exhaut in the coolant you can skip that step. I agree that you probably don't have a blown HG, but you never know.

 

Best of luck

 

Thank you very much...... I was going to pick up my children tomorrow and will cancel the weekend until I get this trouble licked. I cannot chance a breakdown on the highway with my son...he is special....so this soobi must be in top shape...

 

Today I am really appreciative of all the great helpful people on this site...I now have a clue to how the cooling system works and all the tricks to it. I have rebuilt a ford 150 motor years ago.....with a mechanic supervising me....I would not let him touch a thing I just wanted to learn. He told me to take the motor out.......lol....he came back in 30 minutes later and I had the motor and transmission out in one peace....he just said how did you do that....lol....

 

If this subaru body was in good shape I would'nt be so cheap I feel....

 

thanks...will work on it tomorrow....

 

[NorthWet]

I have read what I consider to be a lot of dubious advice on this thread. So pardon me if I offend anyone, but that is not my intention.

 

It sounds like you have a serious overheating issue, not a minor "its not quite where it should be" issue. So... a 180deg F t-stat will not work any better than a 192-195deg F t-stat. In a normally functioning cooling system, all the 180degF one will do is cause your car to run cooler (and at the wrong times) than it was designed to do. Under load, all it will buy you is maybe one extra minute before the temperature climbs into the hot zone. It will NOT make your car run cooler under a load that would make the car overheat with a 195degF t-stat.

 

However, T-stats do fail to function properly, even when relatively new, so a new t-stat is something to consider.

 

Antifreeze/water ratios will NOT make a significant difference in the cooling ability of your car. If your cooling system is in perfect working order you could run 100% glycol and still not raise the temp above "normal". In a marginal system it might make a 10-15% difference.

 

Don't sweat the small things right now.

 

Weight of oil will NOT turn your car into an instant mosquito fogger. If it wasn't putting out oil smoke before the oil was changed than the viscosity of the new oil should not make a noticeable difference.

 

It sounds like you were not sure if the "smoke" was oil-smoke or steam. If this is correct, figure it out. Oil smoke is slightly bluish and does not dissipate except by dilution with air/wind, while steam will dissipate "into thin air". Oil smoke smells oily, steam smells... well, steamy, maybe sweet with antifreeze.

 

Back to your original problem: I think that you typed that you had only one fan? If so, what type (electric or engine driven), and which side (driver's passenger's) of radiator? If this is so, then bring your car up to operating temperature, and with the car running use the palm of your hand (or whatever is good for feeling temp... maybe a friends hand ) feel from top to bottom of the radiator; the tubes are horizontal and they seem to plug in groups either in the top, bottom, middle, or some combination.

 

If you have 2 fans and if your car does NOT have A/C, you should be able to feel the front surface of the radiator. While the car is at operating temperature and running check the radiator top to bottom.

 

If you have 2 fans and if your car has A/C, then I would recommend removing the (an?) electric fan, bringing the car up to operating temperature, and with the car running check the radiator top to bottom.

 

My original guess from afar is that your radiator is plugged. Plugging is a very common problem; I just replaced my wife's radiator, and will need to do the same with an XT I recently bought. But the recent mention of smoke/steam might indicate something worse. I do think that if you haven't already done so that you check the water pump belt for proper adjustment, and check the hoses for general condition.

 

When looking at a major problem, concentrate on major things. The likelyhood that 4 little problems came together to cause a big problem is small compared to one big problem happening. ("Occam's Razor" comes to mind...)