misledxcracker Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 it's fuel injected, not carburated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 it's fuel injected, not carburated. that makes for funness - the best way I can think of draining it is to run a hose from the tank connection to the fuel pump, and run it to a container, problem being, the moment you take the line loose, you will start leaking gas everywhere - the FI system has ~40psi of gas on it - so running the pump to drain the tank would be extremely dangerous - you need to disconnect the electrical connector to the fuel pump, and turn the engine over a few times to depressureize the system before you do ANYTHING with it 1st rule: whatever you do be careful as you indicated earlier that the spark plugs were wet, I assume that the injectors aren't clogged - probably will need to replace the fuel filter as well as there is a very good chance it is at least partially clogged if the gas is fouled - the rest of the system should be fine if you get the old gas out, and fresh gas in the system will take FOREVER to pressureize after you break the prime on the fuel system - be patient!!! good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 cant i disconnect and dispose of the fuel filter, connect a longer hose to that one, connect the green test connectors for the ECU, and let the fuel pump pump it all out into a container? this is going to suck either way... it has a full tank in it... of bad gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Code 12 will always come up when the ignition is in the "run" position and the engine is off. I think code 11 "no reference pulse" should also... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 i just disconnected the big line off of the gas tank, and plugged in the green connectors, and let the fuel pump, pump it all out. so theres a good chance that getting the old gas out and the new gas in, and changing the fuel filter, (i bought a cheap $4.99 autozone one for now, called Deutsch) this thing will all of a sudden start? i hope so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 yes, bad gas can cause a motor not to start. very common with any motor, cars, mowers, tractors, anything that sits for awhile. like mentioned earlier, i'd let the fuel pump do all the work. disconnect the hose by the fuel filter and let it go to town. be sure to cut it off as soon as it's near empty as the gas cools the pump. it'll heat up and be short lived if ran without fuel too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 The plugs are wet, which means the fuel injection is working. The timing for the cams is assumed right, so the right processes are happening Is the spark fat? If you take a wire off and hook it to a spare spark plug and let it rest on the block while someone cranks the engine, is there a big blue spark? If not, it may be poor connections on the coil, or a battery dropping too low on cranking. Leave the wires to the fuel pump unhooked and pour some fresh gas down inside the throttle body. Only a tablespoon full or so. Put the rubber intake boot back on and crank it. If it fires up for a few seconds, you know it was bad gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 changed fuel filter, made fuel pump get rid of that old gas, put in 2 gallons new gas, still not starting... by the way the filter is a Deutsch cheapie one, but gas is getting through the filter.. i'm going to try that "priming" technique. but, where is this intake boot i need to remove to put gas in it? does anyone have a pic or a real good description of how to find it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 have you tested the fuel injector? can you still get it to start by pouring in fuel into the intake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 do a compression test and post the results here. i looked back through the thread and the fuel injectors are getting wet? are you sure it's fuel and not coolant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 im going to try to find that intake boot right now... on the spark plug, its fuel, not coolant... it reeks of gas, and i looked down the spark plug holes for green and there wasnt any sign of it. cylinder 1- 135 cylinder 2- 130 cylinder 3- 130 cylinder 4- 135 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 your compression is great the intake boot is the thing that says "Subaru FI" on it - the boot MUST be in place and connected for the engine to run - as you seem to have an abundance of gas, I doubt pouring more down the throttle body will help you - I am starting to think you have a MAF (mass air flow) sensor issue, or a coolant sensor issue, as a failure in either will give you spark and fuel, but make it VERY difficult to start - a throttle position sensor issue could also be the cause the problem may or may not throw trouble codes check here and look in the "part 2" of the EA82 FSM for the "official" subrau troubleshooting proceedure for the FI system: http://ww2.finleyweb.net:9394/default.asp?id=142 good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 i'm used to 150 psi, are the older models a little lower? i thought SPFI had higher compression ratio pistons that MPFI EA82? but, i don't think that's enough to keep it from starting, those look good. is the injector shorted and staying open too much/too long? that might not be possible, just asking. could the ECU be bad? i know you've checked but: spark plug wires? (1 and 3 front to back on passengers side. 2 and 4 front to back drivers side). electrical timing is set properly? timing belts are lined up dead on (each cam is 180 degrees apart from the other, one up one down)? all engine harness, distributor connectors are fully seated? does it have the right distributor? some are different across different EA82's? maybe someone swapped distributors at some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 i'm used to 150 psi, are the older models a little lower? i thought SPFI had higher compression ratio pistons that MPFI EA82? so am I, but in a ~20 year old car, 130-135 isn't too bad - and the consistancy is the big giveaway to a headgaset problem - SPFI's have a 9.5:1 CR, MPFI 85-86 have a 9:1 CR, MPFI 87+ have a 9.5:1 CR (assuming all are NA - MPFI turbos have a 7.7:1 CR) all MPFI 87+ distys, and all SPFI distys are the SAME - there was a slight change in the connector style somewhere along the line, but they will still interchange be sure that your "cheap" fuel filter is rated for FI pressure - otherwise it may burst and cause a BIG FIRE I have seen several cars in the JY for that reason - fuel filters are NECESSARY to protect the fuel injector from getting clogged/stuck open - I am starting to think you have an ECU problem too, but I am not sure just follow the troubleshooting tables in the above link, and you should pinpoint your problem fairly quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 ok, i tried to prime it, still no start. guess it might not have been the gas after all... i shall download that pdf and read it... and see what comes out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 so am I, but in a ~20 year old car, 130-135 isn't too bad agreed, and if all the spark plugs weren't out, the throttle not propped open, etc that can also reduce the readings. but low compression can also point to mistimed valves. are the tensioners both good (no stripped threads, causing them to be sloppy)? tensioners can seem to be on right but not be holding the timing belts in proper tension which can affect valve timing. i'm not thinking this is tensioner related because the readings are the same on both sides, but maybe the timing is off? sorry...i know you checked that already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 i had a friend check the timing, since i dont know anything about it. but i think this time i'll check it myself, the radiator and all that stuff in the front is already out. there should be holes on the pulleys right? one pointing up, and one pointing down? i need specifics so i can check it, or a link to direct me on how to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 okay the timing belts are lined up properly (went by miles fox's tutorial) and i did more searching... i took the disty cap off, and the metal/plastic thing with an arrow (is that the rotor?) well, the arrow is pointing towards the front driver side of the car... is that okay? isnt it supposed to point to piston 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Just for kicks, try and spin the rotor under the cap by hand. The spfi's have a set screw that can come loose and everything looks good but the car won't run. If you can spin the rotor on the shaft, that's your problem. It came loose on my loyale while I was 200 miles away from home on a backroad. I thought I had run out of gas, it did the whole sputtering and misfireing to a stop deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 heres something... it wont spin by hand... but it does do this... okay i aligned the spark plug wires with the rotor and cap... spark plug wire number one being the one right in front of the rotor. i tried turning it over, it was a no-go, and then i lifted the cap again, and the rotor's moved over a spot? is that normal?? im just about to throw in the towel.... i wish SO MUCH that thing would start... i absolutely LOVE subaru's... but all this is getting me is a big headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 The distributor rotor/camshaft turns with the engine, once for every two engine revolutions - that is a fundamental nature of ALL four-stroke engines - so you need to have the rotor pointing to #1 spark plug wire when you are on the compression stroke - remove #1 plug, and rotate the engine (by hand), holding your thumb over the hole for the #1 plug at some point you will feel a great deal of pressure trying to force its way out, watch the timing mark, and when it hits Top Dead Center (TDC) on that revolution stop - check that the disty rotor is pointing to #1 plug - note - you will pass the TDC mark on the exhaust stroke as well, so don't worry if you don't feel the pressure the first time you turn the engine over ONCE AGAIN, please check the FSM at this link, it details the official subaru troubleshooting proceedure for a no-start condition an official subaru technician would use: http://ww2.finleyweb.net:9394/default.asp?id=142 this is the best resource you have to get the car going - it also goes into a detail about how the FI system works, so you can understand it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 SHE STARTED... AND RAN! ...but not for long. the idler pulley bearing broke, but fortunately didnt break the belts... what was the reason it didnt start? god only knows... my friend thinks its because of the bearing and the fact that my disty rotor was bent so i'm off to buy a new cap and rotor. but what do i do to fix the idler pulley? what part should i be looking for? i still have the pulley itself... and a shaft type lookin thing is still there where the pulley was. any input would be appreciated... i know i got this thread going long but it was well worth it, i learned a lot, and SHE RUNS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Romero Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 SHE STARTED... AND RAN! ...but not for long. the idler pulley bearing broke, but fortunately didnt break the belts... what was the reason it didnt start? god only knows... my friend thinks its because of the bearing and the fact that my disty rotor was bent so i'm off to buy a new cap and rotor. but what do i do to fix the idler pulley? what part should i be looking for? i still have the pulley itself... and a shaft type lookin thing is still there where the pulley was. any input would be appreciated... i know i got this thread going long but it was well worth it, i learned a lot, and SHE RUNS! That's awesome dude! I hope I share your success very soon as I am experiencing a very similar problem to yours, and am probably quite a bit more ignorant about old subarus. Congratulations! ./steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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