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Need to replace a 78 Brat engine


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#1 BLUPRNT

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:40 PM

I have had this great condition Brat for about 6 years that has a tremendous engine knock. This is the second one I have owned and my first was the best car I owned and only paid 200 for it, hence leading up to purchase of the second one.

 

My dilema is finding an engine. Its now time to get serious.

 

I understand the difference of compatability (or lack of) between the EA71 and EA81 so I'm hoping you can help?

Easiest no doubt would be to find an EA71 but my search keeps coming to a dead end. Cost, availability, Etc.

 

However I now have the opportunity to aquire an 84 wagon with a low milage rebuilt engine EA81 and with this comes many extra parts like wheels, really good tires, and a 5spd Legacy transmission. It almost sounds to good to be true which has me sceptical about how feasable it would be to pull off this swap from Wagon to Brat and maybe add the DR 5spd.

From what I can find the fit won't be much of an issue but it sounds like its going to be the misc. connections clutch, shifter, axles. driveline, and exhaust to make it work.

 

I would really like to give this a shot and I have more than the skill and tools to do so but I'm not as young as I used to be and in the past odd swaps i've done on many things have taken a toll on my wallet, time, and body. Many scarred hands and a few medical bills to prove this.  :angry:

 

I am hoping some of you may be able to enlighten me as to what I may be in for and or prevent me from making a mistake that will only end this project half done. :horse:

 

Please how much of the 84 wagon is interchangable with the 78 Brat? You don't really have to specific but an idea would be nice.

 

If I do this I will have the wagon up for free grabs after i'm done pulling the engine. Its in really decent condition with an exceptional interior for an 84 anyway. :slobber:  

 

I haven't completley ruled out finding an EA71 but just kinda looks hopeless.  :banghead:

 

Thanks in advance for your help and time.

 

Sincerly, Scared To Death (almost)

 

 



#2 mikaleda

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:39 PM

The biggest differance I believe you will see is the emissions hook ups will be differant I believe other than that everything shold bolt in. Unless for some reason you like the hitachi you could get a weber And install it on your new engine then you would have to worry about the emissions hook ups. Another thing that may be differant is the ignition system, if your old ea71 has points you'll want to switch the coil assembly over with the 84 ea81 since it will be electronic. Another differance will be in the alternators, in 82 subaru started using internally regulated alts so you will want to use the alt of your ea71 also unless you want to wire in an the newer style, wich is a pain in the butt.

Edited by mikaleda, 13 April 2013 - 04:42 PM.


#3 BLUPRNT

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

Thanks for your response. I could remove much of the emmissions if necessary and I didn't know about the alternator but can handle it. Any wiring can be a pain in the butt (been there many times on many things).

 

Can you tell me, in 1980 they started to put the EA81 in Brats, did thay make changes to the car to accomodate this?

 

Is there a difference between the EA81 of 1980 to the EA81 of 1984?

 

The dual range 4wd in particulary comes to mind.



#4 ivans imports

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:00 AM

I have 3 good ea71s and 3 core ea71s and two crank and rod asemmblys for ea71 s also have converted a 78 wagon from ea71 to ea81 and four speed deul range before was a big job but not imposibble it rely helped having my old gen body ea81 high low 81 brat to compare the differencs in a factory ea81 install



#5 mikaleda

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:09 AM

Thanks for your response. I could remove much of the emmissions if necessary and I didn't know about the alternator but can handle it. Any wiring can be a pain in the butt (been there many times on many things).

alternator is just a bolt in ordeal, just use the alt off your old engine there the same extrnaly, they differ internally though.

Can you tell me, in 1980 they started to put the EA81 in Brats, did thay make changes to the car to accomodate this?

I'm not a brat expert, but I do believe 80 was a change over year on the brat but I can't tell you for sure.

Is there a difference between the EA81 of 1980 to the EA81 of 1984?

The dual range 4wd in particulary comes to mind.

i don't think there is any differance in the trans, but I believe there are a couple differences in 84, some had a feedback carb with an ecu, but I think that was only in the 2wd California spec cars, I'm not sure about that though. Overall it shold be basically the same, it's good you have a whole parts car for refrance that will help, just take your time take a lot of pics before and during removal of both engines for reference.
Also if the engine is out of an 84 w/auto it could have hydro lifters. Edit: I mean hydraulic lash adjusters

Edited by mikaleda, 14 April 2013 - 11:17 AM.


#6 ivans imports

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:16 AM

my 81 brat is very diferent from the 79 /80 had tach high low ea81 i put tbi on it and 100 amp alt on it the trans mounts and strut brace different shifter wireing perty close alt same carb not same but will boltup and work axle shafts same drive shaft same trans wireing close rad same motor mounts same exhaust xover different. I have both brats here a 78 ea71 and a 81 ea81 both same bodys so can look at specific things if you need or take some pics for you



#7 BLUPRNT

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 12:47 PM

Wow, thanks people I didn't expect to get so much info. I think I'm going to give this a shot.

 

Ivan's how much $$$ do you want for a good EA71. I looked up Lumby, BC and you are about 1 day from me, round trip.



#8 bonvo

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:47 AM

 Another differance will be in the alternators, in 82 subaru started using internally regulated alts so you will want to use the alt of your ea71 also unless you want to wire in an the newer style, wich is a pain in the butt.

 

converting to internally regulated isnt that difficult depending on the alternator not to mention is a much more reliable system why convert to a newer engine then leave the charging system from the past? doesnt make any sense 

 

to the original poster have you considered taking the engine you have out and seeing what you have to work with? it could just need a set of bearing or it could be totaly trashed but until you take it apart you dont know i rebuilt my ea71 in the garage for about $240 that included buying a hone for the job at 50 bucks and a full tune up if i were in your position i would start by pulling your current engine and taking it apart to see what you have then make a choice from there taking it out and apart is free after all just remember you need to seperate the pistons from the connecting rods before you try to split the engine 

 

this is where i got my parts i only needed to get the "re ring kit" you may need to step it up to the "standard engine kit" depending on how far out of whack your internal specs are

http://www.cleggengi...-1976-1981.html


Edited by bonvo, 15 April 2013 - 04:56 AM.


#9 ivans imports

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:07 AM

i have 4 one is very good and has a ea82 carb on it and electronic ig covetion whant 800 for that one have one that sat around and has sticky valves bottom end very good 250 for that one have one that had burnt valve been replaced ran faily well 300$ and one that i never even looked at but was not seized 150$ and have a crank and rod assembly for 100$. the realy good one is runing in the car can see it run the rest whould have to take my word or start them on ground some options anyway



#10 mikaleda

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

converting to internally regulated isnt that difficult depending on the alternator not to mention is a much more reliable system why convert to a newer engine then leave the charging system from the past? doesnt make any sense


I have done it on my 80 (pics in the link of my sig page 3 or 4) i have a 95 impreza alt in my 80. it is not hard if that's all your doing but he is already replacing the engine, lets not make it more complicated than need be.

#11 bonvo

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:53 PM

i can see that but if he is already going threw the trouble of upgrading the engine why not do all the upgrades that come with it at once? why switch out the alternator to just switch it back?



#12 ivans imports

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:28 AM

i use a mutsubishi 100 delta wound alt comes off 84-89 2.6 caravans was a realy heavy duty alt and has same plug as subaru used the feed wire for the choke to excite it has been on my 81 brat for 10 years no problems



#13 mikaleda

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:54 AM

i can see that but if he is already going threw the trouble of upgrading the engine why not do all the upgrades that come with it at once? why switch out the alternator to just switch it back?


Ya that makes sense, especially since he has the parts car right there.

#14 talldude

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:02 AM

Consider rebuilding your engine.  The book "How to keep your subaru alive" is very good guide and parts are not too hard to find.  I have an ea71 in my parts truck that runs, but I'm down in NorCal...Could be a fun and rewarding project.



#15 BLUPRNT

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:59 PM

converting to internally regulated isnt that difficult depending on the alternator not to mention is a much more reliable system why convert to a newer engine then leave the charging system from the past? doesnt make any sense 

 

to the original poster have you considered taking the engine you have out and seeing what you have to work with? it could just need a set of bearing or it could be totaly trashed but until you take it apart you dont know i rebuilt my ea71 in the garage for about $240 that included buying a hone for the job at 50 bucks and a full tune up if i were in your position i would start by pulling your current engine and taking it apart to see what you have then make a choice from there taking it out and apart is free after all just remember you need to seperate the pistons from the connecting rods before you try to split the engine 

 

this is where i got my parts i only needed to get the "re ring kit" you may need to step it up to the "standard engine kit" depending on how far out of whack your internal specs are

http://www.cleggengi...-1976-1981.html

Wiring is not an issue for me as long as a schematic is available but if not then its just time consuming as hell to unravel and chase the harness but have done it many times on many things.

 

Rebuilding the current 71 would be nice and thanks for the link to parts to do so. However I have to go with gut based on alot of experience that the current knock is not just a bearing but more about 2 parts seperated and have now hammered the hell out of each other. If you seen and heard how this runs I think you would agree.

 

I do plan to upgrade or modernize :lol: this thing as much as possible with the parts car while it is available.

 

I still have the first Brat that many years ago I put alot of effort into with many great parts available to me. Long story, its a weekend road trip with truck and trailer to get and the back left side is trashed. I'm hoping to get to it this summer.

 

Thank you folks for all the support and help and I will keep you posted. Wagon is coming in on a hook this weekend and I get started.

 

One more thing. Restoration parts? You know those pesky little things that you need like body and glass seals, handles, and Etc, Etc. Any body know a good source.

 

Ivan's thanks for taking the time but getting to you and across the border probably wouldn't work as well as I hoped.



#16 bonvo

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:13 PM

im willing to bet the sound is piston slap or a possible broken skirt you could upload a video to youtube so we can hear it 



#17 ivans imports

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:53 AM

Thats probly why i have so many old gen parts. Non of those cars left up here and to hard to get the parts  down there dosent bother me at least i have some engines to work with if your absulotly stuck



#18 mikaleda

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:59 AM

Just FYI on the external reg. alt. to internal reg. alt, the red wire with the white chase that goes into the voltage regulator is the charge light wire.




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