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16 replies to this topic

#1 scubaroo84

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

Hey everyone, my name is Cody. Ive had my 84 GL wagon for a few weeks now and have had some issues. First the speedometer, the guy i had bought the  car from said he put a tranny in with 120,000 miles on It and he broke the tip on the speedo cable. I bought a new one only to find that the old one was still working. I hooked the new cable to the speedo and my drill, speedo went up to 40mph (drill couldnt go any faster). Left cable out of tranny, with wheels off the ground started the engine and put it in gear and the speedo drive gear didnt move. I have an FSM but it has nothing on the speedo drive that I have found except how to take the speedo cable off or install it. In my truck there is just a plastic worm gear and a plastic drive gear in the tail housing, is the subie the same? and how do I address this?

 

Second, at about 65mph (calculated with a gear calculator) the steering wheel shudders. It has manual steering. It also tends to wonder a tad as well and the shudder only occurs around 65 It stops when you slow down or speed up. Is the rack and pinion just going out?

 

Third thing. I bought the car knowing it needed a front cv axle. starting from a stop it shudders really bad no matter how much you try to ease the clutch out. It stopped when I replaced the axle but now its back again. The axle didn't have any kind of play in it it is a jy axle, I didn't rebuild it as I don't have the money. The odd thing is it doesn't do it if the car sits for long periods of time (overnight) I thought maybe a rear main seal or front input seal leaking on to the clutch and causing it to slip? Sometimes it will jump when shifting from 1-2 as well, other gears are fine. Tranny is a dual range 4spd.

 

Any help is welcome and any tips on things to make the car better are appreciated.

 

Thanks



#2 Turbone

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:12 AM

Welcome to USMB.

Did you see where the cable is supposed to attach to the trans? Its on the right side (passenger) of trans, you will see a hole where it threads into.

Your shuddering could be due to the bad cv or it could be a tire out of balance. Cheaper to find out if the tire is balanced, then go from there.

I dont think the clutch has anything to do with the shudder from take off as the axle swap did work for a short period.



#3 scubaroo84

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:40 AM

Thanks for the reply. the cable, yes it is screwed into the tranny with the tab on the cable going into the slot. Its the shaft with the milled out slot in the tranny itself that is no spinning when in gear (speedo drive). I find nothing in my FSM in the diagrams of what it looks like internally.

 

The shudder, Let me back track on that and give some more info. Wednesday morning I took a buddy up to mt hood where his fuel pump went out the night before. There was a foot of snow up there from over night. My car worked in 4 HI fine in the fresh powder. We got his truck fixed and when we were coming down (from timberline lodge) to hwy 26 I went to shift out of 4 HI into 2wd and nothing happened. Pulled into the rest area and popped the hood. Had my buddy watch the shaft as I put it in gear in 2wd. Shaft spun but didn't go anywhere. Outer cv axle was broken and all bearings gone. Pulled shaft out and drove to my shop in 4 HI. I put the JY shaft in, and for the day, yesterday, it didn't shudder at all but after driving a bit it has started to shudder again today. I know the engine and tranny mounts are pretty toast, when I let off the throttle the tranny jumps around a bit. Did I just pick up a bad shaft and not realize it? it was the only ea81 car in my area. Could it just be a crap tranny? maybe something in the front dif? it seems to have way too many problems for only 120k. It does whine a little and sometimes it almost seems like its on the verge of grinding into gear. I should probably play with the clutch adjustment to see if it might be that (causing the near grinding).



#4 Turbone

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

Could be that the axle you got isnt in too good of shape.

Make sure the axle nut is as tight as you can get it (150ftlbs)



#5 MilesFox

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:28 AM

The shimmy may be a wheel balance issie. as fara s wandering, check the ball joint. I had one that was so bad the wheel would shimmy side to side at about 65 mph due to the loose ball joint.



#6 scubaroo84

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:52 PM

I torqued it to 150ft lbs. Its pretty tight. I rotated the tires after doing the axle since it was time. I have a les schwab reciept for the tires from back in 07' and they only have about 12000 miles on them and still have plenty of tread. I thought maybe a seperated belt cuz that happened on my truck but the truck wobbled at low speeds so I know its not that. The ball joint wasn't real stiff but it wasn't really sloppy either. It was stiff enough to not wobble when you shake the knuckle so I don't think there is too much wear on it.

#7 ferox

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

I would suspect your transmission mounts and check the engine mounts pretty aggressively.  The engine mounts are fairly robust, but the trans mounts are ridiculously puny.  I've got some NOS engine mounts that I would sell you if you want(I think I am going to EJ before I will need them).  You can get the trans mounts at Rockauto along with a new EMPI CV halfshaft.  Definitely check the tie rod ends before placing your order.  There is also a backlash adjustment on the steering rack. 

 

The 4MTs are not the greatest transmission, but I have been running one for years even though I have a perfectly good D/R 5MT and conversion kit from Jerry.  I take care of the 4MT and it just won't die.  There are at least a couple threads about simple mods to take the slop out of the shifter linkage on the 4MT which can help, and adding some Rislone to the tranny fluid seems to help the 4MT.  That seems a little like an old wives tale, but the Rislone definitely seemed to help mine and I think it's right around 250K now.



#8 scubaroo84

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:20 PM

Thank you for the advice! The mounts do look worn and there is way too much movement on acceleration and decceleration. Could it really be as simple as the mounts to cause such a violent shudder? It shakes the whole car. I would love to do the 5spd swap, but right now I don't have the money to do so. The tranny has a new clutch, pressure plate and resurfaced flywheel along with new clutch cable so id like to get some use out of it before doing the swap.

As for the speedo.. anyone got any suggestions? Does it just boil down to a new tranny? How hard is it to split the case on one of these and put it back together? Could I fix it myself? I've taken the tranny in my truck apart before but that is a lot simpler than this one seems.

#9 ferox

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:39 AM

"Could it really be as simple as the mounts to cause such a violent shudder?"

 

Nope, it's the lack of mounts that causes the shudder. :D  With a car that old it's probably a combination of things.  The engine-transmission assembly is attached to the car through two engine mounts and two transmission mounts.  The trans mounts blow out easily leaving the engine mounts to hold the engine and transmission in place while they apply force to the rest of the drive train.  With an open differential the applied force can shift from one side to the other and with a transmission that can move around you can get all kinds of harmonics and amplifications.  It will wear out CV half shafts prematurely too. There is a lot more I could go on about, but the mass of the engine and transmission can make the car shudder for sure.  

 

I'm not saying throw money at it, but plan on replacing many parts if you want your 29 year old subie to ride smooth.  Work your way out from the center checking components (engine-transmission mounts)(inner control arm bushings)(leading rod bushings)(tie rod and tie rods ends)(ball joints)(struts)(tire balance)(tire alignment).  You kind of have to use some leverage to check the ball joints and tie rods can be difficult to tell when their shot also.  I've pulled plenty of ball joints that didn't seem that bad until  I got them off the car and it was obvious they were completely shot.

 

Luckily these cars are really simple so relatively speaking there isn't much to go through.  It took me a little while to get all my stuff replaced but now that I have, the car rides smooth and straight and feels solid.

 

As for the tranny, you would have to get another speedo drive gear, which I presume would have to come from a used trans, so you could go to the junkyard and try to remove one and see whether or not you think it's doable.  The '84 at the Foster yard still had it's trans as of Friday.  If not, there's always gps, and if you've got a tach you can judge speed pretty well by rpms.



#10 scubaroo84

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:45 AM

Well when I have the money I will get some new mounts. I will look more into other things that cause the shudder at 65. I haven't had to drive on the freeway much lately so that isn't much of a concern, more so the shudder from a stop.

I actually pulled the cv axle off that wagon in foster. I suppose on a weekend I could go in there and pull it and see what's good and how everything works. Once I can get a full visual it will be a lot easier for me to do it to my own tranny.

As for how I tell the speed. I used a gear calculator and wrote down many various speeds in different gears at different rpms that I keep on the top of the dash. I have it memorized fairly well now. The only thing I don't like is not having a trip meter. Id like to see what fuel economy I'm actually getting. It has a weber 32/36 dgav.

Also for ride quality it rides great. It handles better than anything I've ever driven, it has decent get up and go and isn't very bumpy on or offroad like my truck.

Thank you guys for the replies. You have been a big help trying to figure whats going on.

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:26 PM

Replacing the speedo drive gear in the trans would indeed require splitting the case.  Splitting open a 4spd is alot harder than the newer 5spds.

 

I would just get "geared" up to do a 5spd swap.

 

Or just buy one of my good 4spds I've got out back ;)  $100? PM me if you want one.


Edited by Gloyale, 27 May 2013 - 01:27 PM.


#12 NorthWet

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:44 PM

Regarding the axle, although you may have torqued it down well on install, it might be worth your time to recheck it.  Is the dished washer installed correctly (convex side facing out, so that the outer rim touches the outer bearing race and the inner hole touches the nut first)?  Check, then retorque the axle nut.



#13 ferox

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:16 PM

I forgot to mention that worn out u-joints in the rear drive line are a common cause of shuddering at speed as well.



#14 scubaroo84

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:04 AM

Gloyal- when i have the money i will contact you for a 4spd.

Northwet- the washer is on correctly. I will check the troque on the nut again when I have time to see if anything loosened up while driving (maybe something preventing the shaft all the way through and has worked its way loose some after driving).

Ferox- ill have to check the rear axles but they don't click and the boots are still fine. Could that really cause this problem even without engaging 4x4?

Could it possibly be the hill holder? I know my rear right drum is warped so could it just be hanging up and causing the shudder? That seem like a fairly reasonable assumption since it would be uneven contact and it does it more when I'm a hill and the hill holder is engaged. When I have time I will mark the hh adjustment and take the cable off of the clutch fork and see if it stops.

Thanks.

#15 ferox

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 02:04 AM

I am referring to the main drive line between the trans and the differential, not the CV half shafts.  It rotates anytime the car is moving, regardless of whether 4WD is engaged.  The rpms of the drive line are directly proportional to the speed of the car, so if the u-joints are going out the drive line may not make the car shudder until you get it rotating fast enough.  This will be even more pronounced if the trans mounts are shot also.



#16 scubaroo84

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:55 AM

Ahh yes. For some reason I was thinking of manual locking hubs on a truck and remembered after I posted that the rear doesn't have manual locking hubs. Ill check for slop in the driveshaft.

#17 MilesFox

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:50 AM

IF the car is wandering around excessively, check the radius rod bushings.






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