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Ignition Coil Question


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35 replies to this topic

#26 Markus

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 12:14 AM

Ali,

I'll tell you my story in my next post...

A fuel pump is pretty expensive. If you think that it is the fuel system at all get a fuel pressure gage to do the few tests that Haynes describes. I wasn't able to get a fuel pressure test kit so from a suggestion from someone else on the board I got a VDO mini pressure gage and installed it permanently in the fuel line between the rail and the fuel filter. Found out my fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator (fpr) were just fine and I was sure my fpr was the culprit. It cost about $30 and I was able to get it through a good parts store (not Autozone or other discount, not that Autozone is bad....)

Next, my story......

#27 Cougar

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 12:23 AM

Markus,

After reading your posts I think your problem may be with the CAS sensor. Have you thought about that. I think this provides the signal to the ECU for firing the plugs. It sounds like the magnet for those positions is a little weak. A O-scope tied to the CAS would tell the story on this.

#28 Markus

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 12:44 AM

Ali,

Last weekend I got the injector (2 day UPS del.) and installed it....geez was it hard pulling out the old and PRESSING in the new but with a home made tool was able to get it in. And guess what........NO CHANGE!! :banghead:

I was ready to gouge my eye out....BUT cooler heads prevailed. I talked to some gearhead friends at work.....broken valve spring, carbon, burnt valves...all basically needing to pull the valve cover and possibly get in deep. One guy told me of a cleaning trick with water that would damage the spark plug but should clean the carbon deposits. I was going to try that first today so in preperation I ran the engine to check the vacuum readings and it ran as crappy as always. Then I changed out the new (2 months old) #3 plug, cylinder I was having trouble with, so as not to ruin the new plug and put in one of the originals that I retained. Then.........

IT RAN PERFECT!!!!!!!!! WOHOOO! :banana: But....I threw an injector, coil, fuel filter, timing belt, plugs (I thought were good), wires and cleaned about every emission device possible, new knock sensor (only code I had) AND IT WAS THE PLUG!!!! Everything pointed to the ignition but I thought since I had new plugs I was OK....NOT! The "new" plugs were Bosch but NOT platinum and at least the one in #3 did not perform well. So, out to Autozone to get Platinum plugs and install and it runs smooth as silk. What an adventure....I did learn a lot. Re-check earlier work when you run out of fairly logical problems.

Way back when the car started running bad I installed the "new" plugs and during that broke a wire and put on a new set of those so when it still ran bad, hey I had new plugs and wires so it couldn't be them....

From now on Bosch Platinums gapped .040 or slightly less.

Am I glad I did NOT get into the valves....it would have been a much less enjoyable Saturday.

Next on the list - Air conditioner re-charge/conversion and then struts.

#29 Markus

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 01:00 AM

Cougar,

CAS stands for Cam/Crank angle sensor? I had though of those when I had the timing covers off and could see how they sensed the teeth on the cam/crank sprockets. I never had a CEL code thrown for those though and did not pursue it.

#30 Cougar

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 01:26 AM

Cougar,

CAS stands for Cam/Crank angle sensor? I had though of those when I had the timing covers off and could see how they sensed the teeth on the cam/crank sprockets. I never had a CEL code thrown for those though and did not pursue it.


You are correct. Since you didn't get a code you did right by looking at other areas for a fault.


To Alia176,

I would try some new plugs to see if that helps solve your problem also. If that doesn't help then you may want to change your plug wires to see if that works. If that is no help then you may want to check your CAS for a problem.

#31 alia176

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 03:42 PM

Glen,

The plug wires, swapped plug wires, plugs, coil pack, knock sensor, timing belt, used ECU, - didn't solve my unpredictable #1 or #3 cyl misfire codes or my intermittent stall issue. Vehicle throws the code and stalls during: winter, summer, hot/cold engine, hwy (mostly) and some slower driving. Shut the car off, wait half a minute, then start back up and it behaves like nothing ever happened! That's why I'm leaning toward an elect issue.

Here's my reason for suspecting the fuel pump or maybe the regulator:

The pump has 130k miles on it and quite possibly it's failing when it gets very hot due to long running? I don't really know, just a shot in the dark. I've thought about installing a fuel press gauge and hopefully it'll tell me something. But I'm thinking that the gauge would be helpful when the engine begins to stall. However, my wife is very busy at that time trying not to get killed by getting rear ended by a truck! :banghead:

Please, keep the ideas coming.

Ali
'95 Legacy wagon


To Alia176,

I would try some new plugs to see if that helps solve your problem also. If that doesn't help then you may want to change your plug wires to see if that works. If that is no help then you may want to check your CAS for a problem.



#32 alia176

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 03:44 PM

Markus,

Congratulations :drunk:

Ali

#33 Cougar

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 09:55 AM

I went back through some of your posts to see what model Soob you have and it looks like we are talking about a '95 Legacy with a 2.2 liter engine, correct?

I have to nix the bad fuel pump idea because your problem is related to cylinders 1 and 3 only. A bad pump would effect all of them.

The next best step to do I believe is to check your angle sensor for the camshaft. I think you may be getting bad pulses for #'s 1 & 3. Checking the waveforms with a 0-scope while the problem is occuring will show the problem up if there is one.

One other thing you could do if you have this type of setup (I don't think you do) is, if there are seperate coils for each side of the engine ignition, is swap them. If I remember right though there is only one.

#34 alia176

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 02:28 PM

Cougar,

Yes, you're correct - 2.2L engine.

The crankshaft angle sensor does sound viable. I'll look through my receipts to see if I replaced it during the timing belt and oil seal project. Thought I replaced some sort of a sensor but can't remember. I'll look around for the best price for the cca sensor.

Does anyone know where the fuel enters the fuel rail? Is it on the pass side of the engine? I couldn't tell from looking at the engine bay. If it enters on the pass side, could cyl #3 be experiencing a lean condition before any other cylinders? This does sound like a long shot to me too!

Thanks,

Ali

I went back through some of your posts to see what model Soob you have and it looks like we are talking about a '95 Legacy with a 2.2 liter engine, correct?

I have to nix the bad fuel pump idea because your problem is related to cylinders 1 and 3 only. A bad pump would effect all of them.

The next best step to do I believe is to check your angle sensor for the camshaft. I think you may be getting bad pulses for #'s 1 & 3. Checking the waveforms with a 0-scope while the problem is occuring will show the problem up if there is one.

One other thing you could do if you have this type of setup (I don't think you do) is, if there are seperate coils for each side of the engine ignition, is swap them. If I remember right though there is only one.



#35 Markus

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 02:11 PM

Ali,

My 90 2.2L has the fuel line entering on the drivers side. It comes off the fuel filter in the engine bay (95 has a filter under the hood?). During my ordeal I thought the same thing and was ready to replace the fuel pressure regulator or pump also...but opted for the $30 VDO gage and found they were ok. With that gage I saved myself easily $100 and now am ready to check the fuel system first at any sign of trouble. It only took me 30 minutes. I pulled the line from the filter to rail input and cut out about an inch of line in the middle and installed the gage there.

#36 alia176

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 08:11 AM

Markus,

Thanks for the info. Your info makes sense in that my fuel filter is on the driver side, in the engine bay. I may do the fuel press test as well and prolly will find out that it's fine. Even if the fuel press was the problem, I don't expect my wife to jump out of the car when this problem is happening in the middle of the hwy and pop the hood to check out stuff! So, I'll just throw yet another part at this problem. Perhaps the crankshaft angle sensor is the culprit..who knows!

Thanks again,

Ali



Ali,

My 90 2.2L has the fuel line entering on the drivers side. It comes off the fuel filter in the engine bay (95 has a filter under the hood?). During my ordeal I thought the same thing and was ready to replace the fuel pressure regulator or pump also...but opted for the $30 VDO gage and found they were ok. With that gage I saved myself easily $100 and now am ready to check the fuel system first at any sign of trouble. It only took me 30 minutes. I pulled the line from the filter to rail input and cut out about an inch of line in the middle and installed the gage there.






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