Skid542

First off, my appologizes if this has been beaten to death. I did some searching and haven't found a similar senario to what I am experiencing. On my 96' OBW, 5spd, I am occasionally getting a P0106 code being thrown but only on occasion. The trend I have noticed is this - I am driving for a couple of hours on a long road trip, pull over for gas, fill up, hit the road again (highway 55-70 mph depending as I've been driving in MT) and after about 5-10 minutes the code comes up. No issues the car running, i.e. no sudden missing, stumbling, etc. This has happened several times to me. So I just keep on cruising with the cruise control set and reach into my glove compartment and pull out my reader. I pull the code to make sure it's nothing critical, and get P0106 everytime. Continueing to cruise at speed I go ahead and clear the code. It stays gone until I get gas again or I get home. It doesn't happen everytime but isfairly consistent. On rare occasion I have an issue where it throws it running around town. Normally I wouldn't really sweet it much as it hasn't stopped the car. But my folks are coming out in a few weeks to visit and will be borrowing the OBW for a road trip from Northern Idaho to Glacier Natl. Park. I don't want this to happen to them and freak them out, or worse, have it take a real crap and leave them stranded. They have offered to pay for any new sensors it may need as a 'rental' fee. I haven't done much, any, diagnostics on the system as I've been busy working on my 93' Legacy turbo. So before I dig into everything or start buying sensors, I thought I'd ask the experts over here what their opinions were on the situation. FWIW, most of the time it was doing this to me I was in a high altitude enviroment, 4000' ASL though around town I'm around 2200' ASL. Any insight you guys can give would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Lee

I highly suggest Avid TRZ's. They're not too pricey. Super quiet on the road and at highway speeds. Pretty decent grip on the dry, seem to do great in the rain, and handle the snow pretty well. I'll go as far to say that they're the best all-season I've run. My two cents on the matter.

I'm not sure I completely understand your question due to my lack of familarity with a lot of the new stuff :-/. Are you wanting to cut up the side rails? Have the cross rails cantilevered?

My 96' has solid lifters, and single port exhaust.

Manifold... intake or exhaust? Pressuming exhaust.

MJM, I totally feel you. ABS on slush/snow can be very aggrivating and definately causes longer braking distances. The problem, as I see it, is that if only wheel locks and happens to be the one with the sensor then the ABS kicks in and reduces the braking on the tires that are still gripping fine. I find stopping at stoplight/signs terrify sometimes since it's that last little tiny bit where a little lockage isn't a problem versus letting them roll another 15 foot. On asphault ABS is fine with me since I don't want to flatspot a tire but that's not going to happen in the slush/snow. Having had two previous non ABS cars, one being a 93' Legacy, they all stopped before my 96' OBW. I've often wondered the same question you're asking and keep us posted on what you do and your results.

There is also some small differences in the suspension in that the 90-91 had tapered rear springs and the 92-94 don't. *I think that's how it went, though I do know there was a difference.

Have you checked your CV's and wheel bearings?

I have no desire to get into the merits of street racing, track racing, riceness, pimpness, etc. but I do feel that some 'hard' numbers should be somewhere in this thread. Assuming the wing has a chord of 7 inches and a span of 4 feet and an airfoil that is operating at a CL of 1 (perfectly reasonable for 'general public', once you start getting into the real racing stuff they use high lift foils with CL's approaching 1.5-1.8), and assuming standard sea level conditions. 45 mph - 12 lb 60 mph - 21.5 lb 70 mph - 29 lb 80 mph - 38 lb 90 mph - 48 lb 100 mph - 60 lb 120 mph - 86 lb 140 mph - 116 lb 250 mph - 370 lb Again this is assuming a CL of 1.0 and I could easily see the wing on the STi, EVO, Porsche, etc. operating at 1.2. The drag penalty is going to vary fairly significantly between wings due to inferference effects at the ends, the flow quality, aspect ratio, etc. but at 80 mph for the pressumed wing above (assuming minimal interference) it'll be around 2-3 lb. For those wondering, I'm 3 weeks away from graduating with an aerospace engineering degree and I spent last year as the aerodynamicist of a very successful human powered airplane design team and have also focused my schooling on aerodynamics, so these numbers do have merit.

FWIW, my 96' Outback with a 2.2L and a 5sp Manual has the 4.11 gearing, definitatively.

So yesterday I finally broke down and spent the day working on trying to fix the bad bearing sound I've been hearing in my drivetrain/clutch. Replaced the TO, the old one had just a tad play in but not much. I also replaced my clutch since the one in there had radial play in the plastic piece that holds the female splined 'socket?'. The rest of the clutch was in good condition though. The pressure plate was also in pretty good condition with even wear on the fingers and none that were broken/cracked/bent. There was some discoloration, looked to be due to heat, on the clutch disc surface so I went ahead and swapped the pressure plate too. When I had the clutch off I checked the pinion bearing in the crank just to be sure and it felt just fine, nice and snug. However, the input shaft of the tranny had between 1/32 - 1/16" of radial play. It'd wiggle pretty easy by shaking it with your fingers. But since there wasn't anything I could do about that I put everything back together. Once I got everything hooked back up I started the car and sure enough, the sound was still there. Slightly less loud though only very slightly. I figure having the other clutch in there with the solid center piece is helping hold it better but it's definately on it's way out . How long have others ran their's in this condition? What broke first? Thanks.

Your final drive ratio is 4.11, I know some of the RS's use this ratio but I don't know what year and if the NA's are the same. But there are definately options out there, sorry I'm not more help.

Out of those whole dang 5 page long thread that has wasted too much of my time that I'll never get back, the last two posts are perhaps the most relavent. Jesus Christ people, a lifestyle is just that, a lifestyle. And a good car is just that, a good car. Having either or both is a choice that is an individual decision and you're worried about the ones others are making? Yes, I'm straight, but it's all too often overlooked by others and I feel should be re-instated - gays and lesbians are humans too.

Cool, thanks Nipper.

I have a quick/silly question. Where do I stick my thin tiny screw driver to pop out the foglight switch that is mounted in the dash? I pressume it pops outwards with just a little slack in the wires? I'm sure it's easy but I don't want to break something accidently and surely someone else has taken this guy out before. Thanks a ton.

Sorry, BC is the chassis code for the early Legacy sedans.

Trying to powershift/flatshift/whatever you want to call it not good on your transmission. Particularly if you don't know what you're doing. Also, most new transmissions with low wear, your's likely, won't shift that way since the tolerances are too close. If you want to shift fast either get good with the clutch, at which point you'd know which RPMs work best, or get a dogbox, at which point you still have to know how to rev-match. Sorry if I sound like an a** but your question sounds newbish and unexperienced and I'd hate to see you break a perfectly good tranny in a perfectly good Subaru .

I posted this over on LCO but thought that some of the people here might find it worthwhile as well. I also wasn't sure which forum to post this in but this seemed the most fitting. If any mod feels it'd be better utilized elsewhere please feel free to move it. As some of you know, little over 4 months ago I had let my dear and beloved BC follow her heart to the Pleiades. Consequently I was left searching for another and when I couldn't find another BC I 'settled' for a 96' Legacy Outback with the 2.2 and 5MT. This meant I'd be driving around with another 600lb, my BC was FWD and semi-stripped, and I'd also have the 4.11 tranny. For reference with my tools and all I estimate a curb of 3300-3400lb now. I am also aware that I'm only dealing with 135hp so my terms of fast and such are relative. I wanted to take the time to get familiar with the AWD versus FWD (AWD OWNS!!) as well as testing my car in a variety of scenarios before posting a review of the 4.11 gearing. I have had a chance to run some good curves, open highway, congested on/off ramps, heavy loading, and some small town stuff. I live in a mountainous area and consequently spend a lot of time going up and down. So on with the review. My first impressions were simple. The gears were too damn short. I found myself constantly hitting the limiter (my 96' is at 6250 btw). Off the line 1st gear went quick and she definitely has some quick acceleration. I was nose to nose with a 4th gen prelude through 1st. 2nd gear was strong but not being able to hit 60 in second is a distinct disadvantage if you're dragging hard. You have to be in 3rd to see 62. However, 3rd gear in the power band is my favorite gear in this car. It took me a long time to get used to this. But I do contribute a lot of this to having driven 3 years, 42k mi, with 3.70 gearing which is very noticeably taller. 2nd gear used to own and would take me up close to 70 if I needed to. This is very important to keep in mind when entering congested highways and hitting the limiter accidentally when trying to accelerate and merge teaches you very quickly to get into 3rd early. However, getting into 3rd around 45 still gives you good solid acceleration through the merge and up to speed or passing. If you downshift into 3rd at 45-50 and expect instant 'kick' in the pants it won't quite happen. Just a small second and you're going again, if you drop it into 2nd instead then you have to be prepared to shift right quick again. This means that on highways that are 55mph and traffic is doing it and you have to maneuver you are kinda in a 'lag' zone of the powerband/gearing. I do want to note that if you are in 3rd around 45 and WOT, when you hit 55 you have solid acceleration built up and it just continues, it easy to merge at speed this way with good response. However, at interstate speeds this is not the case and dropping into 3rd drops you right into the PB. On roads between 35-45, 2nd provides great response and power. If you're one that likes to just run the roads and curves at the limits of your traction and braking then the 4.11 really starts to come into it's realm. Staying in the PB is easy to do when you're in the mountains with a lot of quickly varying curves, particularly if they include hills. Keep your engine oil fresh and coolant topped off because it does require keeping the revs up. However, I do believe with a bit more power, even another 20hp, it would bring the revs down some. With a turbo, well you're going to want to be spooled anyways. So if you're looking at auto-x or track I would recommend you consider the 4.11. I like it better than my 3.70 in the sharp curves. Having solid response is essential at the limits and the 3.70 had it's areas where 2nd was too much (revs too low) but 1st gear wouldn't have been practical or doable. So I have a wagon again (my first car was an 86 Colt Vista) and I use it. I have had it full inside and a bookcase strapped to the top helping my brother move. The first time I had several hundred pounds of stuff in the back, an additional passenger in the front, and lots of aero drag I was immediately happy with the 4.11. Clearly I didn't want to trash my brother's stuff but I got WOT a few times in 2nd and 3rd and was adequately satisfied. The additional torque the 4.11 provides is really nice. Even if I'm not standing on the gas at the stop lights it is comforting to know I have the power there if I need to get out of the way of another dumb driver. Last week I went on a canoeing trip where my buddy and I took 200lb of gear/food and a large 2-man whitewater canoe up 110 mi. up and over mountains to get to the lake. Yes, we were lazy and didn't want to hassle with a current this time. Wow, the 4.11 once again showed itself and I have no question why it's on the Outback. This was trip was made on all back roads so lots of switch-backs and lots of gas-braking. And of course, what about the gas mileage? Well I've made the transfer from 2700lb FWD to a heavier, draggier AWD so clearly there are more things in play than just my tranny gearing. I've gone from approximately 29 on the highway to around 26. I haven't made any long interstate trips so I can't comment on that, though I suspect it'd do around 27-28. Around town I routinely do around 24-26, I live in the center of downtown so I do a lot of town driving. On the highway in 5th gear I usually run around 3 - 3.2k RPM but given my first engine with 210k still had cross-hatching on the cylinder walls despite burning a quart a week I don't feel that the high revs are dangerous to the longevity of the engine. Gas prices keep going up so you know... but I definitely have to say that I've been comfortable with the drop in mileage for the luxury of AWD. But it has been noticeable. While the 4.11 has taken some time to get used to, it is nice. It handles the weight well and 1st gear still pulls strong and passing is spirited. It goes through gears quick but if driven with the PB in mind it performs very well. I've driven an 05 STi, several hundred miles on it, and that car goes through gears fast. This definitely doesn't hit that mark but if I were pushing lots of power and fuel I'd want the 3.9 to run boost longer and be easier on fuel at cruise. I'd like to drive an RS and see how the additional power works with the gearing. Final conclusion - I'm pleased with the 4.11 in the Outback, but I miss my BC still . I also want to take this moment to make a quick reference about brakes, the vented rear brakes and semi-race pads have been extremely nice when loaded down and coming down the mountains, zero brake fade.

I may have been unclear about the throwout clippings. It was my impression that some of the bearings had to be clipped into the pressure plate as well, only hydraulic? Completely off? The car has 145k mi. on it. I've only had it for 2k. I do know that it's been driven in the hills of WV for a year and a half by the second owner and the first owner was an insurance salesman. He kept imaculate care of the car, even a new actual factory battery in it. Though that doesn't say much about the drivetrain I know. I'll try the hill test tomorrow. The noise is load dependant though, that is if I'm just at the right speed where the car is coasting, not engine braking but everythings just rolling fine, it's quieter. When I give it just a little bit of gas it comes back or more precisely it's more noticable.

Okay, thanks Nipper, I definately have a cable that routes up to the clutch fork. Since this is a 'pull', I am assuming that the pressure plate is such that the throwout bearing clips onto it as in the 91-94' Legacy SS's? Or does my bearing ride on the fork and get pushed onto the pressure plate as was the case on my 93' Legacy L? And yeah I had figured on changing the clutch. However, I just got back in from probing around and the rattling I hear with the clutch out (engaged) is most concise at the rear of the tranny. Concise is the best word I can think of since I can also hear the rattle in the probe at the front of the tranny but it is most distinctively bad sounding at the back. This leads me to believe my tranny is dieing at which it seems a little silly to spend the time and money to replace the clutch and throwout if my tranny needs replaced soon as well. I am replacing the tranny fluid tomorrow or sat. to see if there are any flakes or grindings floating around.

I just need a quick verification. My 1996' NA Outback has a cable actuated push style cluth? I've searched and haven't found a definative and since I'm about to do a throwout bearing I want to make sure I get the right one. Thanks guys.

^^^ Upgrading the rears to the early SS would be an upgrade. You'll also gain an advantage by upgrading to cryotreated rotors and running a little 'hotter' pad. Running slotted rotors, eh, maybe marginal benifit. But cryotreating would be the way to go.

90 through 94' all NA's had 10.2" vented fronts and 10.5" solid rears. These fit under 14's and are single piston. The wagon's have a different rear caliper that is exactly the same except the piston has ~9% increased area. The SS's had 10.7" vented fronts and 10.5" vented rears. The front caliper is twin piston and the rear caliper is meant to go around the vented disc but has the same area as the NA wagon caliper. 95' through 99 (where my knowledge starts slipping) all NA Legacy's had 10.2" vented fronts and 10.5" solid rears (except though random ones with drums, I'm sorry). The Outbacks had 10.7" vented fronts, twin piston, and 10.5" solid rears, with the larger piston. The Legacy GT's had the same setup as the Outbacks. The 10.7" require 15's to clear and then some of the WRX stuff requires 16's but I'm not as versed. And more pistons increases pedal feel, total areas and other factors equal (not usually)

Everything I've heard they will give you approximately an inch or so and should be a bolt in replacement. However you will need to get your alignment redone as you will have changed the geometry of things slightly. Other than that I don't forsee any problems, particularly if you are using the same year springs/struts.

Hmm.... Do you have an 4EAT or 5MT? I'm also assuming no CEL's? Usually putting a cone filter on will increase the intake noise but that doesn't seem to quite match your description. Kinda dumb, your heat shield isn't rattling is it? A cheap probe can be made out of a long screwdriver. Stick the round end in your ear and put the small end on what you want to probe, you can extend it with a piece of rod if need be. Just be careful, my mom told me to never put anything in my ear smaller than my elbow... .