Mike Kamm

Here's what I'll be bringing... My 77 Datsun B210. A nice example from San Diego. I bored and stroked the 1398cc stock engine to 1608cc's. Twin 40mm Dellorto carbs, ported head and Crane cam.

I don't think they really care if your car is restored or not. If it's remotely presentable it will be fine. There were some fresh barn finds at the mini and micro car show and nobody minded at all. Seriously, I'm betting that early Subies will not be represented very well. I would love to see them in any condition. There will be plenty of the "popular" cars like 240Z's, Datsun Roadsters, 510's and such, but to me, the really desireable cars to see are the ones you don't see every day or at other shows, like early Subies, and cars like mine, a Datsun B210. People tended to use them up and dispose of them back in the day.

There are two all Japanese Classic car shows that I know of now. The largest has to be this one: ....And I have always wanted to go but it's about 3,000 miles away from NY. However...... I just found out today that us easterners also have a venue to show our classic Japanese autombiles. Coming up this September 16th, is – Japanese Car Day - Sponsored by the DRONE (Datsun Roadster Owners of New England) Club and Lexus USA. It is held at the Larz Anderson Auto Museum in Brookline, MA. Go to: http://www.mot.org/Events/lawn.html .This is a lawn show outdoors in front of the museum. I have actually been there before for thir Mini and Micro car show. Take a look at the show field: This was obviously not taken on the Japanese car day, but you can see how beautiful the place is. There is even a small paved circular access road around the show field to cruise you car around so everyone can hear and see it the cars in motion. You can take people for rides too if you'd like. Sure beats a stationary show where the cars are silent! It's just $10 and that includes admission to the museum inside too. Food is available on site. I'm going and I will bring my hotted up Datsun B210. Anyone interested in bringing out one of your early Subarus? __________________

Thanks for the replies. Your tours sound great too. Is there an email list I can join to possible be invited in future meets like you described Seahag? I'd love to join you all. Our event was really outstanding yesterday. We put it together on short notice but most people's weekend's in June are pretty spoken for this time of year. Hence we had only four cars and six members attend, but we all really enjoyed it. Like I said earlier, I'd love to see some Subies out with us in the future. We're planning another event like this for the Fall. Here's a little photoshop collage one of our members put together last night showcasing the highlights of yesterday's excursion. There is much more detailed coverage of this tour, including photos with informative captions under them on our message board here. Cheers, Mike Kamm A.M.E.C. Historic event director

Has anyone here ever wished there were a few events each year where you could join like minded individuals on a historic car road rally or simply a backroad driving tour with your early Subaru? Well this Saturday, June 9th, about a dozen of us upstate eastern New Yorkers are doing just that. We will be meeting at 10:00 am at a friend's farm in Kingston, NY. We will be driving our '79 and older historic cars on a 65 miles tour through the twisty backroads over the Mohonk Mountain, through Minnewaska and onto Ellenville, followed by some spirited driving over the original Ellenville hill climb run. We will pause up at the top of Mt. Cathalia where the former Ellenville Hill Climb used to be run in the 60's and early '70's. Then it's back on the road up to Cragsmoor, down into Walker Valley and back to New Paltz through more twisty roads. We will finish up at the Gilded Otter in New Paltz for lunch. They have a brewery on site and reasonable lunch faire. Is there anyone here that would like to join us? Please contact me at 518 674-0520 if interested in going along for full details. I know it's short notice, sorry about that. There is no charge to go along with us. This is a free event. I'll be driving my '77 Datsun B210. C'mon Subie drivers, we need more '70's Japanese cars to come along. Mike

Nice to see that there are still some people that are brave enough to repaint a car at home. I did my first [and only] full car repaint about 25 years ago in my garage. It was silver [a difficult color to spray I later found out]. I used acrylic laquer and then wet sanded and buffed it. It came out pretty nice although my bodywork on one of the quarter panels left alot to be desired. You see I stripped the car to bare metal and found prior accident damage on on side. There was literally two feet area of bondo. I was 17 and couldn't get an area that large flat again. I used to have some friends say "hey where's the surf board?" followed by, "I want to go surfing on all of those waves on your quarter panel!"

Hello moosens, The classes are described fully in the 16th post of this thread. There are three and they are based on what tires you are using, studless, studded, or screw tires. Keep in mind that in the best interest of no contact racing, we grid the fastest cars up front. The scorers have the actual results sheets, but I can tell you that Vintage Saab Club of North America [V.S.C.N.A.] President Bruce Turk's light blue Saab 96 rally car won 2 of three screw tire heats. Steve Garrett's beautiful white Austin Healy Sprite was runner up. The street Stud class was won by Bill Lass's '68 V4 powered Saab 96. Tom Baird's 1973 Volvo P1800ES came in fifth I think. That was the prettiest car out there, so I don't think he was racing very hard! Rubber to ice class was won by Matt Nelson's 1974 Saab 99. Here are some much better quality pics than those I took with my camcorder above. Courtesy of ace motorsports photographer Jeff Nicol.

Sounds good moosens. Here's some more fun for you all.... The father and son team of Daniel and Richard Dobbins came ready for battle this year with a freshly installed "Twin Traction" differential in their V8 4 barrel equipped '62 Studebaker Lark. Hailing from Long Island, they drove this baby to and from the races this again this year. "Trailer's are for sissys"! says Dan. First stop was at my house on Friday morning, where we restudded the two rear tires from last year's event. Richard had lost every single stud from his then new Winterforce tires last year. We upped the size of the studs this year and then mounted them onto the car for the drive up to the Lake. Putting street miles on studded tires allows the studs to properly seat themselves into the rubber. Richard takes the inside line through turn 4 with Bruce Turk using the outside groove. Casey Creamer brought out the very first Italian car to the Historic Ice races. His RWD 1969 Alpha Romeo Berlina was quite an advanced car for it's day. It's two liter engine sports an alloy hemispherical twin cam cylinder head, with mechanical fuel injection, and four wheel disc brakes! Casey ran on studded Hakka 2's. Here he is side by side with Bill Lass' Saab on the backstretch. Eric Nelson's #34 V4 powered Saab 96 is an actual survivor car from A.M.E.C.'s glory days of ice racing back in the seventies. Formerly owned and raced by Dave Miller from NJ, this car was running on the very same long stud winter tires that it did back then. Talk about originality! A last minute surprise entry was Mike "Fuzzy" Space from Bethelehem, PA. He is seen here with his "long distance award" trophy from Saturday night's awards banquet. It was a pleasure meeting Mike. Wow what a character this guy is! Fun to be around is an understatement. Take a look at his unique front license plate.... Here's an under hood pic of Mike's 544. Hmmm, the paint on the engine looks better than the outside of the car! What a nice gesture: Steve and Kris Garrett offered me to take a spin in their '60 Austin Healy Sprite on the course after the races. I'm a big fan of nimble, lightweight automobiles. Wow RWD is exciting on the ice! Hotted-up 1275 cc engine in the Garrett's Sprite. We didn't have a hard luck award, but if we did it would have had to gone to High Falls, New York's RiK Rydant. RiK's '66 Saab 96 two-stroker had chronic problems with loading up and stalling. I learned from the Saab experts this weekend that early two stroke cars need their exhaust systems replaced [or cleaned out] occasionally because they get clogged with carbon and burned oil deposits. We're pretty sure RiK's tiny exhaust system is almost totally clogged. RiK designed and produced our excellent event T-shirts and tech stickers. No one supports our event to the extent that RiK does! We love ya Rik! A shot from the pits. Historic cars were displayed front and center on Saturday. The Saab 99 is owned and driven by Eric's son Matt Nelson. This car ran on Blizzaks and won one of the heat races outright! There is always so much to see and do at the Lake George Winter Carnival. If you could find a place to park, this was the place to be on Saturday!

Wow, what a weekend. I think it's safe to say that A.M.E.C.'s second Historic Ice Racing weekend exceeded everyone's expectations! We had the two main ingredients we were missing last year - the weather and the location. We were fortunate to have been able to hold this event where it all started back in 1965, in beautiful Lake George. We were treated to sunny skies, temps in the upper 20's, and virtually no wind. What more could you ask for right? The Cars were the stars...... Take a look at this action. Sam Patterson's Blizzak equipped V4 powered Saab 96 was running in front of some street stud and even screw some tire class cars! The mud on the front fender illustrates that Sam flat towed this car to the lake [behind a Saab 9000] all the way from Saquoit, NY. Pennsylvania's Steve Garrett was having the time of his life sliding his 1960 Austin Healy Bugeye Sprite through the corners on his home built screw tires. He was among the quickest all weekend. There's only one car he couldn't quite keep up with...... ...and that was Bruce Turk's fabulous 2-stroke Saab 96, with it's finely tuned 750 GT rally engine under the bonnet. Bruce was running on a donated pair of 30+ year old home built screw tires. Here was one of the greatest battles in Historic racing all weekend. The classic FWD vs RWD street stud match up between Bill Lass and Mike "Fuzzy" Space. Bill is driving his '68 Saab 96 with V4 power, and Fuzzy is right there with the oldest vintage car of this event - a '59 Volvo 544! Get this: both of these guy's drove these cars over 600 miles to and from this event! Bill drove his Saab in from Buffalo, NY and Mike his Volvo from Bethlehem, PA! Yes, this is the car that appeared in Classic Motorsports magazine this fall in the "Ran when parked" column. The amazing thing is that Mike has had never driven this car more than 15 miles from home before. Both men drove their classics to the race, raced all weekend, and drove them home. Just like it was done 40 years ago! And how about Bob Addis' 1964 Corvair Monza Spyder? This guy is the real deal, running top down and during the first race, sporting a pair of chrome framed driving goggles! This car brought back many fond memories for some of our senior members, who were there 40 years ago when air cooled flat sixes with studded tires populated the RWD class. Mike Space's 544 followed by Casey Creamer's '69 Alpha Romeo Berlina and Tom Baird's beautiful '73 Volvo P1800ES. Taking the checkered flag in front of about a thousand spectators with the Lac du Saint Sacrement cruise boat in the background.....only on Lake George folks! We'd still love to host a few Subies. Anyone game for next year?

The Historic racers will once again be treated to a complimentary event T-shirts courtesy of RiK Rydant and A.M.E.C. Rik designed the graphics and produced the limited edition 2007 Lake George Historic Ice racing T-shirts at his Teebirds Design screenprinting facility in High Falls, NY. Thanks RiK!

Thanks waimaks, We enjoy it very much. I've been at it for 15 years, but we have one member who has been a member for 52 years! He is still racing too!

Current Driver's Roster [Where are the Subarus? :-\ ] Rubber to Ice class #71 Sam Patterson, Saquiot, NY, '69 Saab 96 - #34 Eric Nelson, Longmeadow, MA, '71 Saab 96 V-4 Street Studs #41 Rik Rydant, High Falls, NY, '66 Saab 96 #112 Brian Hunter, Toronto Ontario Canada, '68 Volvo 122 #12 Ian Lok, Toronto Ontario Canada, Volvo 122 #6 Theodore Goneos, Connecticut, Porsche 911 #11 Tom Cox, Woodstock, MD, 1970 Saab 96 V-4 #415 Daniel and Richard Dobbins, Long Island, NY, '62 Studebaker Lark Screw tires #96 Bruce Turk, Walden, NY, '61 Saab 96 Rallye Car #35 Tom Baird, Caroga Lake, NY, '72 Saab Sonnett #23 Steve Garrett, Philly, PA, '60 Austin Healy Sprite #42 Mike Kamm, Averill Park, NY, '77 Datsun B210 #1 Casey Creamer, Burdett, NY, '69 Alfa Romeo Berlina #00 Nick Julian, Saab 96 V-4 I have been busy organizing this event and have sent my Historic email list several detailed updates already, including yesterday's announcement of the opening of event registration. If you would like to be added to the list and receive up to the minute info for this event, simply send an email to mkamm at icerace dot com. Online registration form is HERE. Registration is now open and all are encouraged to sign up for this event. You can print them out, bring them with you, and present them to me on the ice on Friday, or at Saturday morning's regular race registration in the Mt. Prospect Diner [next door to the Holiday Inn host hotel]. There is no need to send any money now, but please email me or call me at (518) 674-0520 and tell me your coming. I want to keep a current log of entries for this event on our message board. I also need to know what car number you will use. And if you can, please email me a digital picture or two with a little info about your car. Thanks, Michael Kamm Adirondack Motor Enthusiast Club Historic Ice Race Coordinator

Historic Class Update Great news, the ice on Lake George actually skinned over about a week earlier than usual this year. At this point things are shaping up very nicely to hold our second Historic Ice racing event as planned, on beautiful Lake George right in front of Million Dollar Beach. And all of this during the Lake George Winter Carnival! Take a look at the events going on in town and on the lake during this time: http://www.lakegeorgewintercarnival.com/events_weekend_4.html We are planning to hold a dinner banquet on Saturday night February 24th, at our event host hotel, the Lake George Holiday Inn. All ice racers and guests are invited to join us for a buffet dinner and awards presentations after the races. PA's Steve Garret just finished up his first pair and is working on the second pair as we speak. Steve built these tires from the directions I outlined in the article I wrote in THIS thread. Screws inserted from the inside out. He found a used set of 13" snow tires and these look to be good candidates because of their blocky tread and simply because the rubber has hardened over the years and will now hold the screws much better. Due to these not being full tread tires, Steve used shorter 1" #12 sheet metal screws. Here's how they look before they are trimmed to the club spec of 3/16ths of an inch. The finished product. Steve said they took about four hours each, just like it did back in the day. He also said that the most arduous part of the job was grinding the rubber inner flaps to a feather edge. He got them for free from a pile of used inner tire flaps at a local farm implement supply store. With these tires and Steve's welded differential, this hotted up 1960 Austin Healy Sprite will be running with the big dogs this year!

I hope somebody puts these parts to good use Koelfish. There are currnetly no Subarus entered in the Historic Ice Races scheduled for Lake George later this month. That rebuilt 1600 with the shaved head, Cam, and Weber carb would be perfect with the close ratio trans and locked differential. Hey guys just remember, you can't get stuff like this at WalMart. :cool:

That's a really nice car. I can't believe it only got bid up to $1,275. It's sad that very few people will spend any money when it comes to the less popular economy cars. Datsun B210's and 210's don't bring much money either, even if they're mint. I guess in a way that's good for us though.

2007 A.M.E.C. Historic Event Rules The rules for this year's Historic Ice races will be the same as last year's inaugural event. Once again there will be three Historic Class divisions. Those will be based on the tires used. They are a rubber to ice class, a street stud class, and a screw tire class. In other words, all drivers are welcome to choose from any winter tire new or old, studded or not, and can also choose to use the home built "screw tires" A.M.E.C. used years ago before we switched to the purpose built Menard ice racing tire we run today. Menard Ice racing tires will not be legal to use for the Historic class. This is not intended to be a seriously competitive race. It is intended to be an exhibition for fun, although I'm sure there will be some careful, but spirited drives put in by some. Yes, there will be a big disparity between the different cars and tires used, but that's why we will grid the faster classes in front. Refer to the "Gridding" subtitle below. Three Classes Rubber to Ice Class: This one is self explanatory. Any winter tire new or old is legal. Period correct tires are preferred, but if you want to use the new Bridgestone REVO 1's go for it! Tractionizing IS allowed. This is the old days folks. Street Stud Class: This class utilizes street studded winter tires. The number of street studs is limited to 30 per linear foot of tread surface. The old Maxi-Trac studs ARE allowed for this race. Any length stud may be used, keeping in mind that excessive stud projection will cause premature loss of stud. Screw Tire Class This class uses the old home built "screw" tires of old. Up to #12 sheet metal screws may be substituted for studs. They must be driven through the tire from the inside and may project no more than 3/16ths of an inch. The number of screws will be limited to 28 per linear foot of tread. Over length screws must be ground down to the proper length. There is a "How To" article on these tires HERE. Car Eligibility: This event is open to pre-'75 vintage cars. Some '75 to '79 cars may be accepted, including all round headlight Japanese cars to '79. Simply contact me at: mkamm@icerace.com with your request. This race is not limited to former ice racing cars only. Street driven and vintage race cars are welcomed with open arms. Course Layout: A.M.E.C. races are run on frozen road courses, approximately 1.5 miles in length. Gridding: We will grid the faster screw tire class first, followed by the street stud and rubber to ice classes for safety. We do the same for our weekly street legal no-contact classes. We have found that having the faster cars come up through the pack from the rear is counterproductive to the no contact rule. Daily agenda and race format: Friday, February 23rd: We will once again offer a complimentary driver's school and test 'n tune event on Friday afternoon after the track is plowed. Friday's track time will be for Historic Class drivers only. Sorry, no regular weekly ice racing class cars will be allowed. Saturday, February 24th: There will be a 10 minute morning warm up session for all cars, followed by three 20 minute heat races, during Saturday's program. All three classes race in the same heats. Just like 40 years ago, standing starts will be employed. *Bonus race* Sunday, February 25th: We have added an additional heat race to the lineup before Sunday morning's regular program gets underway. This will be the first group out on the course and will give all of the historic racers who are staying over on Saturday night extra seat time on the ice before heading back home. We're sure that Sunday's spectators will appreciate it too! Dinner and Awards: A.M.E.C. will be presenting trophies for the top three finishers for all three Historic classes on Saturday night, A.M.E.C. will be having a dinner and awards presentation in our own banquet room at the host hotel. Host Hotel information: The host hotel for this event will the Holiday Inn Turf- Lake George [right in the village, less than a minute from the lake] http://www.lakegeorgeturf.com/. Hotel Reservations:1-888-HOLIDAY (888-465-4329) Hotel Front Desk: 1-518-6685781 This is where the action will be before and after the races. It is right next door to the Mount Prospect Diner [where morning race registration will be], and where the racers and their families will be dining, including the special Saturday night awards banquet. There is a special low rate for ice racers, but to take advantage of it, you must reserve your room by February 9th to get the lower rate. Anyone considering participating or having any questions is asked to please contact Mike Kamm at: mkamm@icerace.com or phone (518) 674-0520. I also have a Historic Class email list that I use for updates. To join the list simply email me at the address above.

Really it's more of an exhibition and fun for the boys event. We're not running three wide for the Piston Cup or anything! You don't need a race car either. I'm running my Summer street car: With this under the hood though.....

No one here wants to have some fun with their historic Subaru? I've got plenty of 13" studded tires to lend. But none of my Datsun wheels will fit those big bolt circles you guys use!

Hello Historic drivers and fans, Although it's early Fall, the subject of Historic Class Ice Racing is still hot hot hot! As a result, the A.M.E.C. officials have discussed it at our recent monthly meeting and the decision has been made: We're doing it again for 2007! Although it wasn't our initial intention for this to be an annual event, the feedback from the racers from our inaugural Historic Ice Racing event this past February was so positive and persistent, that we feel compelled to do it again this winter. Much to our surprise, our historic ice race driver's enthusiasm has not waned in the off season. In fact, I have been contacted by several people who have acquired, or are restoring cars specifically for this event. Evidently there were quite a few people that had the sit back, wait and see approach for our inaugural event, which was the first of it's kind in the US. Some came to spectate and "test the waters" so to speak. Now after witnessing our inaugural event they are ready to join the fray after seeing how much good clean fun they missed. Exhibition ice driving/racing is an absolutely unique driving experience and combining it with the spectacle of classic sports and compact cars is simply something a true enthusiast needs to take part in at least once in their lifetime! But I must warn, you, it's hard to go ice racing just once. Trust me on this one. How hot is the subject of A.M.E.C.'s unique Historic ice racing event? Last month I was contacted by David Wallens and Scott Lear of Grassroots Motorsport and Classic Motorsport magazines. They follow my updates on their message board in regards to A.M.E.C.'s Historic ice racing. They also noticed that my Historic Ice Racing thread there has over 9,000 hits! It can be seen here: Classic Motorsports thread They've added a nice blurb in this month's Classic Motorsport magazine with a color picture of Bruce Turk's Saab 96 rallye car and an announcement of our 2007 event. How hooked are some of last year's participants? I hear from the Historic Racers more often during the summer than from any other class. These guys are pumped! Rik Rydant's been working on his #41 Saab 96 has a brand new Polar White paint job on it. Dan Dobbins has been working feverishly on his #415 Studebaker Lark and just installed a "twin traction" differential. He said the Saabs will be quaking on their studded tires this winter! Steve Garrett says he can't wait to get his beautiful white #23 Bugeye Sprite back on the ice! Bruce Turk, the President of the Vintage Saab Club of North America, has once again accepted our invitation to participate in the 2007 Historic class races this winter with his classic Saab 96 rallye car. We will once again be planning to hold the event on beautiful Lake George. Stay tuned for more details. If there's one message to get across here, it would be to get the old iron out of storage and ready to run now, while the long [and warm] days are here. It sure beats working on your cars on the ice. Several great cars did not make it out last winter because the owners procrastinated. You know what they say.... Get 'Em Running Guys! The weather can only be better for this year's event right? Michael Kamm A.M.E.C. Historic Race Coordinator To read about and view the A.M.E.C. 2006 inagural Historic Ice Racing event click HERE.

Thanks for posting the links operose, Our inagural [and first in the US] A.M.E.C. Historic Ice Races were a great success. We had plenty of ice, but unfortunately no Subies showed up. No one's classic car got even a scratch on it and all had a great time in our no-contact Historic ice racing event. The big news is we're doing it again in 2007! This year's event will be scheduled for February 24th and 25th headlining the Lake George Winter Carnival, in Lake George, NY. More about it HERE. There's a short story about it in this month's Classic Motorsport magazine as well. We'd like to see some Japanese cars get out and strut their stuff this year. I will be running my '77 Datsun B210. Anyone care to join me?

How did the trip go? I'd love to see a pic of the car!

Really, you know him? I saw this car for sale on someone's front lawn last fall. It's a low mileage beauty! Why mess with the drivetrain? I knocked on the door, nobody home. I left my email address and phone number, No one ever got back to me.

Actually, We were hoping for a really nice example like this to attend.

It sounds familiar. Would that be nearby Mt. Prospect?

Sorry for the dealy in replying. I didn't realize that I am not automatically subscribed to the threads I post in on this site. Yes, that's exactly right. We say that we accept some cars up through '79 because we don't want VW Rabbits out there. There are still a half dozen racing with us every week. Subarus up to '79 are welcome. They must be decent looking cars though. All four tires must be true winter type tires. No all season or [gulp] summer tires allowed. Take a look at the list of fine automobiles signed up so far: C.N.Y.I.R.A. Nick Julian, 3 cars: * Harold Cameron's former Saab 96 * Huck Spaulding's championship winning orange #80 Saab 96 [Dave Wiltse driving] * Homer Trotter's Saab 96 rallye car Casey Creamer, Burdett, NY, '60 Austin Healy Sprite Ann Jordan, "Rotary Rocket", 1972 Mazda RX2 Bill Lass, Buffalo, NY, Saab 95 [wagon model] Karl Hughes, East Syracuse, NY, '73 BMW 2002 A.M.E.C. and others Dave Burnham, Delanson, NY, '66 Citroen DS21 Bruce Turk, '61 Saab 96 Rallye Car Tom Baird, Caroga Lake, NY, '72 Saab Sonnett Mike Kamm, Averill Park, NY, '77 Datsun B210 Sam Patterson, Saquiot, NY, Saab 96 Sue Salsburg, NJ, 56 MGA Eric Nelson, Longmeadow, MA, Saab 96 Bob LeGere, Pleasant Valley, CT, '71 Opel Ascona Steve Garret, Delaware, '60 Austin Healy Sprite Rik Rydant, High Falls, NY, '66 Saab 96 Bob Addis, Cohoes, NY, 1960 DKW 3 cylinder, 2 stroke Jim Hutchings, Utica, NY, Bull Nose Saab 96 Max Stratton, New Hampshire, Triumph Spitfire Charles Christ Sr. Breinigsville. PA, orange '60 Saab 93F SVRA # 251 New Meadows Ice racing in Maine: Charlie Thompson's crew from the Cumberland Motor Club are getting ready two Saab Sonnetts and a Saab 99. Dave King, Wolwich, ME, '76 Mercury Capri [i love those!] From the Vintage Auto Racing Assoc. of Canada: Volvo 122