crazymjb

I wouldn't recomend retreads, in fact I think they are now ban some places.

From what I understand they have some studless tires out now which will handle just about anything, especially in a subaru. If you are preparing for that "emergency" situation you could always carry these: http://www.spikes-spiders.com/ Can't vouch for them but it looks like a good idea, then again I didn't know they got a lot of snow in New Mexico(where they are based). I have heard a lot of good thing about Bstone Blizzaks, which is what we will probably get later this winter for our FWD acura(though it does pretty well with the stock MXM4s and TCS on) Edit: in retrospect thats a lot of plastic. But I will leave it up there in case you are intereseted.

With all that fiberglass supply stuff required, wouldnt it be more than 28 bucks?

for 28 bucks you could try it. And if it doesnt fit tell them that is the problem and send it back. My $0.02

Shocks for handling. I am sure there are huge Impreza forums out there. Also saabnet, though the impreza forums are probably more helpful.

As long as it has subaru reliability and not saab reliability... My friend almost got one but decided it was too small. If they made a 9-2x sedan... I believe it says subaru under the hood.

Depends how far you are willing to go. You could get a multi channel in/out amp and splice it inline with all the speaker outputs, along with an additional input for a different source, and then add better speakers in the stock positions.

My other car has DVD-A and I see that as gods(even though Im athias) gift to music.

Learners permit in 3 weeks if NYC comes through and sends my birth certificate. So the towing of the blowers would be next year. This summer however I still need to get the building supplies I would normally just barely squeeze in the minivan.

Heres where my acura knowledge comes in: You mean the the redesigned headlights for the 2nd gen TL, which were included with the mid model face lift: Note: The 3rd gen we have is a completly redesigned car

The outback is growing on me as well, but I still can't like it in black. I think it should be nice in white. I think the ram 3500 can now tow 23,000 pounds, at least thats what I have heard everywhere else. The magnum is a wagon, and I really liked it. It had the benz 4matic system, its 6.5 inches of ground clearance, 5.7 liter hemi v8 putting out 345/390. I was kinda secretly hoping though my mom would force the subaru, cause I was getting more and more worried about constant leaks and failures on the dodge forum. As for the acura looking like the outback, here is your photo comparison: white 04+ TL: White 05+ Outback: I don see any similarity except the paint color.

Either way the VDC does have an off button. That site was also a bad example. But an 8-12% worst case increase in safety on wet and snowy roads is pretty good. Here is a link to a much better source of information: http://www.esceducation.org/what_experts_say/industry_reports.shtml

Thanks for those sites. Also thanks for the good info. I just figured it could do just as well with a car with locking diffys since TCS is always giving the correct amount of power to the wheels with the correct amount of grip.

Great. Its important because my mom drives to different schools for meetings sometimes 20+ miles away(hence the need for navi) and she would like to be able to get back in a snow storm, especially when it comes down hard. Edit: Does anyone have pics of the guage cluster and center console at night on the 05+? What about this big sunroof I am hearing about? Also, do subarus come with windo tint? Does the 3.0R VDC offer a black interior? Thanks

Thanks. Speed is not the sole chosing reason for her, she said she would prefer something a little quicker but between that and the VDC she would like the VDC. As far as towing it would be nothing more than a snow blower or two, and some light building materials. So maybe 1500 LBS including the trailer. My mom would get a small suv, like the tribecca, but she doesnt want anything bigger than that, so I figure, screw it, lets go with a wagon. As far as "off-roading" I am not talking any "severe" trails, but I have always wanted to drive through one of those wooded trails with a few rocks here or there. Basically I would like to know how the subarus compare to modern jeeps(grand cherokee, not wrangler). When it comes to getting the VDC instead of just the 3.0R(which the VDC has) it comes down to what the VDC has standard: 1. Electronic stability program(VDC) 2. Limited group(leather, 6 disk changer) 3. Navigation All of which are required on our next car. I have been arguing the price online for a few days. I am trying to get them to go 31 after the 1k cash back. One dealer agreed but they said it was an 05 without navi, but I think I can still hold them in that neigborhood. We are going in later this week to argue the price and possibly buy, though that is unlikely. We will probably end up going with the 1.9% APR instead of the 1k back. The one thing I find really dissapointing is that they only seem to offer taupe leather, and I was hoping for black. We will likely get the package with the shock sensor and autodimming mirror, and are getting the tow hitch and all season mats.

The VDC equipped system has the VTD transfer case with TCS in both the front and back. I think for that particular unit it is split 45/55. I am still curious, as it is variable, by how much it is variable. in subarus online presentation for "active" cruise control it is 100% variable, for the VTD it appeared to be 75% variable but I am not 100% sure. I would also like to know how deep snow the outbacks can navigate. Our street(one way Hill) is often last to be plowed. Will the outback move in 80-10 inches of snow or will it get stuck? I know it has 8.9 inches of ground clearance, but I figure even in 10 inches it still may be able to move, not sure though.

The Stability program on our Acura has a bypass button, which turns off all the systems but ABS and EBD. I figured subaru must have this button too? Also, we do have a throttle cut on the Acura. One of the things we tested on the road was flooring it without the system on, the revs went right up to 5 but the wheels just spun and it slid side to side a little. Then we floored it with the system on and it limited RPM, less and less as we started moving faster. I believe the subaru does this too. Both cars have Drive by Wire systems. NO doubt people get cocky with these systems. Here is a link to pics of someone with the same car we have(different color) going 60 on the ice: http://www3.sympatico.ca/sl1200mk4/ I also want to add that it looks like with the advanced VDC system the spinning of wheels is probably unneccesary. Mike

Thanks, and I know there is CURRENTLY no computer that substitutes good driving skills. However computers can definatly make driving easier and safer. And that is what I want for my family.

Well I look at statistics, and ESP has been proven very effective, much more so then ABS. We have it on our other car of which I am a member of the forum and many people have had there asses saved by it. We also have tested the system on the acura by going on an empty road and trying a few manuvers, both with it on and off(on the snow/ice). With it off the car slid around, with it on it handle very decently. The manuals always include a warning that ESP is no substitute for good driving skills, but it is very helpful and has proven effective on our other vehicle. We know not to get a false sense of security with it, so that doesn't become a problem, but I could see how it would effect some. I also don't see how they are a waste of time, seeing as dying prematurly is more of a waste, and when using the ESP on our other car it handles better in poor conditions. ESP is not ARC(active roll control), that is a seperate system. Also, we are not getting to make up for poor driving skills, but rather to compliment good ones. I don't mean to come off as harsh or protective, but I am a big advocate of electronic stability programs. Mike P.S. Here is one of many articles: "Swedish National Road Administration, Borlange, Sweden. anders.lie@vv.se ESP (Electronic Stability Program) has recently been introduced onto the market in an effort to reduce the number and severity of loss-of-control automobile accidents. This reduction is expected to be particularly evident for accidents on roads with low friction (e.g., wet or icy conditions). This study aimed to evaluate the statistical effectiveness of ESP using data from accidents that occurred in Sweden during 2000 to 2002. To control for exposure, induced exposure methods were used, where ESP-sensitive to ESP-insensitive accidents and road conditions were matched in relation to cars equipped with and without ESP. Cars of similar, or in some cases identical, make and model were used to isolate the role of ESP. As predicted, the study showed a positive effect of ESP in circumstances where road surfaces have low friction. The overall effectiveness was 22.1 (+/-21) percent, while for accidents on wet roads, the effectiveness increased to 31.5 (+/-23.4) percent. On roads covered with ice and snow, the corresponding effectiveness was 38.2 (+/-26.1) percent. In addition, ESP was found to be effective for three different types of cars: small front-wheel drive; large front-wheel drive; and large rear-wheel drive."

Thanks. I was upset that the VDC equipped vehicles(tribeca and OBW) were the only subarus with an Electronic Stability Program. Which is a requirement on any new car we get. On the other hand it does narrow down my choices. Thanks again, Mike

With the VDC do you get Frong rear power transfer WITH front and rear traction control? Is this a clutch based, differential based, or CVT based system? What is the maximum amount of power that can be sent to the rear? To the front? could I, for instance, if stuck, put 90+% of the power to the RR wheel? Edit: I see know that it uses VTD couple with front and rear TCS. Does anyone have the % numbers of how much it can transfer between front and rear? Also, does the clutch system ever wear out? Finally, do subarus(all outback models), have an electronic stability program? Thansks, Mike

High, we are trying to decide between an OBW 3.0R VDC Limited or an OBW XT Limited with Navigation. Both will end up being similarly priced and offer the same equipment. I figured since the OBW is obviously not a sports car and we alread have a sports sedan(05 TL) it may make more sense just to go with the better AWD system and the more "durable" engine. Does anyone here have experience with the various systems? I am curious as to how well the VDC works over the system used on the XT. Does the XTs system have TCS also, or just front-back power distribution? Thanks, Mike

According to the dealer and web site only the sti has the xenons, though I saw them on the tribecca too. I think it should boil down to outback XT with limited package with navigation or outback 3.0Rvdc. Though I would love another quick car I don't know how neccesary it is to have a faster car if the road holding isnt as good as that of the Legacy. We will probably end up going with the 3.0R, as I like that AWD system and think its best for the poor road conditions outside of Boston. (plus I would like to go on some trails with it, without informing my folks).

It seemed to me that the AWD systems without VDC only used differentials and had no form of traction control, so while power could be split up between the front half and the rear half, it could not be transfered from right to left once at the rear or front, which is what I was looking for. We live directly on a turn in the middle of a hill, and it usually ices completly over, plus our drivay is on a slight incline, so getting all the power right where its needed is crucial. The good news is subaru said the VDC comes with nav standard, my dealer offered me 34 out the door, but I would like at most 32. Do the High beams in the projector housing on the new outbacks use solenoids, or seperate filaments? Thanks, Mike

We will probably end up with an OBW. Now do they make an XT model with the same features as the 3.0R limited? Also, which engine is better for use in heavy snow and towing(again not large amounts of weight, but plywood or snow blowers?) Also, does the normal AWD system on the 3.0R limited have TCS(applies break to wheel that is spinning to fast), or is that only on the VDC? Traction control is something I would really like to have. Would that only be available on the VDC? Why does the VDC cost so much more, is it just the AWD system? Does anyone have an invoice for the VDC? Again, how flexible is subaru on their pricing? Thanks, Mike