79er

Sensor output was measured as "AC" volts.

Got a puzzle with my '92 Legacy wagon (206K miles). Haven't had any indications of problems, i.e. no CEL lit when it is running, but decided to see if any codes were in the ECU and got one: one long blink three short blinks when I plugged the green connectors together and turned the ignition key to on (= cam angle sensor error). Checked the cam angle sensor continuity and got about 1600 ohms and something over a pulsing .2 volt cranking the engine with a voltmeter attached to the sensor plug (factory manual says anything over 0.1 volt is good). So it is putting out a signal and has good continuity so why the CEL code but no "notification" via a blinking check engine light when running? And clearing the code with the multi-step procedure in the service manual doesn't clear it. A glitch in OBD software or my specific ECU? Runs fine otherwise, so anyone know what might explain the 13 and inability to clear it?

I've got a stalling problem that has got me baffled--I see a number of other threads that detail stalling issues, none quite fit what I'm experiencing. The common conditions seem to be hot afternoons (above 90) and a heat-soaked engine--the problem doesn't surface until at least 30-45 minutes of stop and go city traffic. Today for example, I was out and about with the AC on for about an hour when I first detected flat acceleration and stuttering or shuddering til about 3500 rpm (manual transmission) starting from a full stop at a traffic light. Turned off the AC but not much help--this insecure "will it go or not" through a few more stops, then total stalling. I was on a slight uphill incline and letting out the clutch--zero power--floored it--nothing. Missed the green cycle and pissed off all the folks behind me. Started revving the engine as the cross traffic got its orange and held it at 5,000--same thing--slight forward movement and stall--kept working the accelerator and managed to hick-up across the 4-lane intersection. Response improved after that a bit and I manged to get to my driveway a half mile away. Puzzle in all this is the engine never dies--idle is fine. Its just when any load is added it just goes flat with no response at all once the clutch is out. With the clutch in, revving from idle sometimes is a struggle but usually not. Short trips, or cooler mornings and the stalling does not occur. Now a bit of history--I experienced the same problem for the first time (in spades) about a year ago driving I-80/I-76 from Nebraska to Denver, Colorado. Problem started at the state line after I filled the gas tank about 2pm on a hot July afternoon. The response was a little different from what I described above--I could get up to interstate speeds but slowly power just seemed to ooze away, I would downshift and keep the rpm at 4,000 to 5,000 and lose power, downshift again, and then when I could get no more than 25-30 mph out of it, stop for about 10-15 minutes for a bit of a cool down, and repeat the whole cycle all over--contemplating the cost of a 200-mile tow I figured I might as well just keep up the cycle and buy a new engine if that is what it came to. So 160 miles of that (about 7-10 miles at a time--7 hours) and it was 9 pm and as suddenly as the problem started it disappeared. Never experienced the same symptoms again until now just over a full year later. Initially a year ago I thought the problem was bad gas, but I rather doubt that now. Thought the O2 sensor might be at least part of the problem though I'd replaced it a year earlier. But in the semi-annual emissions check I had this last May, the numbers were pretty close to those on the test from two years ago when the sensor was new, and as I already mentioned response and driveability has been normal after that trip last July until the last week. As far as engine diagnostics, the Check Engine Light has never come on. Last summer there were no CEL codes; a week ago I got an 11 which translates to defective crank sensor, but the service manual suggests I shouldn't be able to start the engine if either the crank or cam sensors are defective, and that has not been an issue. I've wondered if the knock sensor might be the problem, but is the retard table in the computer "wide" enough to actually retard the engine to a stall? I also thought fuel pump or filter might be the problem, but if I can get fuel to support 5000 rpm, 2-3000 should not be a problem. So I'm at a total loss at this point--I'm guessing it has to be a sensor issue that is going bananas at high heat and the computer responds by trying to shut the engine down. Or might it be some problem in the fuel vapor purge circuit? Any one with a solution to propose? Woody

....I've reviewed a bunch of threads on idle and starting issues... Thanks to all who replied. Guess I was too vague on the decription--I've been experiencing a high (2200-2500 rpm) idle on cold start on these mild summer days and infrequently a high idle that will only sloowly drop to under 1000 after running at sustained highway speeds (65-75). Most forum members commenting on this problem finger either the CTS or (for my older 92 Legacy) the air bypass valve (I'm assuming the term IAC refers to the same metered air bleed on later engines). In any event, some have found replacing the CTS the solution, others have not. I was looking for a way to narrow the problem without putting money into something not needed. My CTS is functional (engine starts without effort, idles a little high at 900 after warmup), I was just wanting to see if the resistance values were tracking with what the ECU expects to see for a given temperature, or skewed from what they should be. This morning I checked cold (62 degrees) and operating temps and found values of 1183 ohms and 62 ohms, respectively. That kinda ruled out the values in the Haynes guide quoted above, so I figured I'd bite the bullet and visit the local pull & save and see if I could find a couple of sensors to measure as a comparison. Found two, one from an '89 and another from a '93 (note: the 89-94 engines have a temp sensor that takes a 12 mm socket or wrench, not a 19mm, so probably a different supplier and different characteristics from the 19mm version. Anyway, here are the results for anyone in future that might need a rough reference for this style of coolant temp sensor--average of two sensors (with help from my freezer and microwave): Temp Degrees F. Ave resistance (ohms) 10--------- 7370 40--------- 2275 62--------- 1205 71---------- 908 103--------- 365 118--------- 252 147--------- 102 165---------- 66 So I guess I'll be fussing with the air bypass control, though I gave it the "easy" treatment of a few shots of carb cleaner--it only intensified the problem--even higher startup idle than before the treatment. Anyone have new ideas to contribute? I figure there's gotta be an answer, though I recall reading at least one thread from a forum member with the same problem who replaced the CTS without any effect on the high idle problem; the thread kinda petered out after that with no resolution. Thoughts? Woody

I've reviewed a bunch of threads on idle and starting issues and found that for some folks replacing the CTS is the answer, for others, no. But I haven't found any info on actually diagnosing a bad CTS as opposed to shelling out the bucks to replace and hope it does the trick. Is an ohmmeter check a reliable indicator, or are there other issues that a simple resistance check won't reveal? If an ohmmeter check is reliable, where can I find a temperature/resistance chart so as to make an informed decision if the CTS is good or going out of range? I'm looking for values appropriate to the CTS in 90-94 models; and if anyone has knowledge of how similar (or different) the resistance values for temp sensors over the years are, I'm sure others would find that useful as well. Woody

Exactly the logic in Colorado--according to the article in a local paper (mostly a rewrite of the State's press release, I'm sure) the expectation was to flunk about 31,000 vehicles with the tightened standard. Standards for 1981 and vehicles have roughly been cut to half the previously allowable emissions, e.g., for my old '75 pickup HC is cut from 1200 to 600, CO from 6 to 3.5.

Just to follow up, for anyone facing a similar circumstance, I was able to successfully pass Colorado emissions. It would have been nice to know what action(s) had the greatest effect, but at $25 a pop for repeat testing, I just decided to do everything that was inexpensive, plus a new O2 sensor (not so inexpensive!) that might have an effect. The "before" figures are in my original post, and the test results after a new O2 sensor and other minor fixes were as follows: HC -0.1187 ((17% of earlier value), CO - 4.3302 (25% of earlier value), NOx -0.5327 (88% of earlier value)--these figures are a "grams per mile" value that Colorado seems to prefer rather than a percentage value. (Fail values are 1.5 GPM for HC, 15.0 GPM for CO, and 3.5 GPM for NOx, so all values are now well under the fail threshold). As for the measures I took to get this improvement, besides a Subaru O2 sensor, I ran a pint of injector cleaner (valvoline) through the engine in one full tank of gas, replaced the air cleaner filter (though the existing one was not at all plugged up and had about 15,000 miles of use), replaced the spark plugs (plug wires appeared in good shape and only two years old), filled the gas tank the day before the test to 14 gallons and topped off with about 2 gallons E-85 which I estimated should make about 12% ethanol content, changed engine oil and filter, drove for about 7 miles at highway speeds (@4,000 rpm) before turning in to the emissions test facility, and earlier also cleaned the air sensor and the throttle body--one of the Lexus forums has an interesting thread on this--you can check it at the following URL: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345147 I was quite gratified with the large improvement in HC and CO readings and hope for not too much of an increase 50,000 miles from now (the engine currently has 158,000 on the clock) if I take the same measures for future tests. Woody

I have a '92 Legacy wagon that passed Colorado emissions in 2004 and 2006 and is due for another sniffer test this month. Because the standard changed TODAY from 20 GPM for carbon monoxide to 15 GPM, I see a likely failure--the state conveniently printed out out the values of each component on the earlier tests, and CO measured 16.7 and 16.9 on earlier tests (the real bummer is if I had a '91 or earlier model the standard remained at 20). HC and NOx limits were also reduced as of today, but the previous tests suggest I should have no problem (HC emissions were .7-.71 with the current fail value of 1.5; NOx was 1.0 and .6 with the current fail value of 3.5). So everything seems healthy, just a tad rich as evidenced by the CO numbers (if only I'd done the emissions test last week!). As to a fix, how much effect will replacement of the O2 sensor have if HC and NOx are well within limits? Is CO the only component the O2 sensor regulates? or is the problem with the mass air flow sensor--do they get dirty or collect debris that could throw off the air/fuel ratio by a small amount? If so, can anyone recommend a cleaning procedure? Or other possible fixes for this slightly rich condiiton? Would appreciate if anybody with the same model could give me a baseline as to what typical CO values are for this engine. Any help appreciated--hate to spend big bucks for such a small deviation, especially since it was an "OK" value yesterday. Woody

Thanks for the responses--yes, do want to sell the machine, but I'm skeptical I'll find someone who will take it without the heater valve functioning as it ought from the dash panel. I'll have to see--I had an ad up for a week on the local craigslist and got maybe 10 inquiries, one sounds like he'll follow up and actually come out for a looksee--no actual lookers so far. And one inquiry from Hawaii and another from upstate New York neither of which I consider serious... Woody

I'm still getting acquainted with a '92 Legacy/2.2 engine I bought a couple of months back, and I'm wondering if there is a problem with the cooling system I've overlooked. Since there were several unknowns when I bought the vehicle, I replaced water pump, timing belt and front seals on the 140K engine. For about a month no surprises; then about two weeks ago on a cool (60-65 degree) morning after a couple mile trip to the grocery store I noted the radiator fans running--top hose to the radiator hot, bottom cold. Temperature indicator showing normal running temperature. Got a replacement thermostat from NAPA (STC brand, same as what was in the car when I bought it) and things seemed in order until about 10 days later--I got to work--about a 6-mile trip and the same scenerio--fans running, hot upper hose, cold lower. Went back to NAPA and told 'em I thought they probably had a bad batch of thermostats and wanted something from another mfg. They came up with an OEM style with the bleed hole, but the problem persists, not consistently--the thermostat seems to reliably open on the (usually) hot afternoon commute home without any indication of overheating (instrument panel temp indicator at about 3:30 position or slightly under halfway up the gauge which seems normal for this particular car), but short trips on cool mornings seem to get the cooling fans running before the thermostat opens, though the instrument panel temp indicator is at about the same spot as on a 90 degree day idling in traffic. So is this normal behavior for this engine, or do I still have thermostat problems or other bigger problems? Or is it just a fan temperature sensor that is a little too sensitive in relation to thermostat opening temperature? Thoughts anyone? Woody

My 79er has developed a severe summer drip with the temperature control valve in the closed position. Does anyone rebuild these with a new seal? My current valve came from a 'pick-n-pull' yard a few years back when the original started leaking, but I'm guessing anything out there any more will be in about the same condition as what I've got--old and worn/leaky. Local dealer says it is a discontinued item; I saw reference to a price of $100+ in another posting, suggesting that a dealer elsewhere in the country apparently still has the valve in stock. That's a little much money, though. Alternatively, does anyone on the board have one that doesn't leak they'd be interested in selling? Or other fixes? The seal appears to be a simple plastic bushing that gets a little worn and drips once cooling system temperature/pressure rises but I don't think oatmeal is the solution... Woody

I've nearly finished up doing a timing belt replace on a '92 Legacy (2.2 liter engine). Threads on this site and info on the EndWrench site were all a great help. I also checked a factory manual for the "official" word on the procedure and was puzzled by two steps the factory includes: 1) the service manual seems to think the tensioner bracket should be removed (and replaced) -- my experience was it seemed fine to just leave it in place. Anyone have a thought as to why removal would be recommended? 2) In the last steps of the new belt install procedure after the pin is removed from the belt tension adjuster, the manual states: "After properly installing timing belt, remove rocker cover and ensure that the valve lash adjuster contains no air." If proper procedure is followed--that is--not rotating the cams or the crank while the belt is off the engine, why would the valve adjuster have any air in it, any more than it would have air in it with the vehicle just sitting parked? And if it does have air, shouldn't it settle down after an hour or so of operation as I believe the manual suggests might be required if the entire valve rocker assembly has been removed and then replaced? In short, is this recommendation good practice, or overkill? Woody

"...the local Subaru dealer found an Oil leak I asked about. He said I needed Cam seals, Crank Seal and Timing Belt. Additionally, the valve cover was leaking Oil and estimated $395 would cover replacing the Valve Gasket." Funny thing, I just bought a '92 Legacy and took it to a dealer-trained mechanic (he has his own shop now) to look over before finalizing the purchase, and he had the same list of recommended repairs--belt, seals and such for about $800. Wonder if dealership training has something to do with it... 79er

This might be a little off track, but is the procedure outlined by grossgary essentially the same to replace the passenger side cam seal on the 2.2 engine? Or any shortcuts/modifications to the procedure--my lifters are OK, but short of pulling the cam, I don't see a foolproof means to remove the seal--I assume cam removal is the main purpose Subaru placed the rear cam cover/o-ring assembly on the block as well, or was there some other purpose? Woody