Erik R
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Posts posted by Erik R
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Sounds like MMO time...............
It took a few weeks, but the ticking is quited down; especially on cold starts......
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Bummer ! (you didn't get hurt or anything? Anyone else involved? Hope not.) Looks like it was a nice car................Part it out for cash and pick up another one............
Should be able to straighten that roof rack back out for use on your next ride.........
Good luck and happy hunting!
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Great link.......Tnx for the URL!
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If there are any left, put me on the list with Northguy.............Those are some fine shirts
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Just a bump...............
Don't want to see it fall of the end of the list............
I am still interested....
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Any of you guys been to any of these?:
This one looks cool (42,000 acres!), but it's quite a way from some of us:
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Last December.............pulled engine, changed out lifters, resealed oil pump.
Now, 3k miles later........the tapping is coming back! (I used all Subaru dealer parts, BTW). I even changed the oil and filter 3 times in that period.
I am trying the MMO that has been suggested here many times; but I don't have much faith in "snake-oil" remedies............time will tell.
These engines will run a long time with the "death-rattle" (lifters, lash adjusters, cam followers; take your pick)............I let mine go for 14 months and 18k!
I lost mileage and power, but it never failed.
While oil changes may help, it's the lack of maint. before you get the car (the dreaded PO) that you can't reverse.............that and the top-end oiling system is precarious on it's best days.
With 135k, you may be due for timing belts anyway.........good time to do the pump seals..............it can be done "in-car", but it's a LOT easier with it out on the bench, IMHO.
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I am 30 miles east of "Sack-of-Tomatoes" off U.S. 50...............A get together of some kind would be cool; maybe at an ORV park??
Cali?.........must be an out-of-state term. With us natives, it's either NorCal or SoCal.............there is a big difference.
Actually, I have heard and used many other names and acronyms for it, but I dare not repeat any of them here.
Good Idea, BTW
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With only 261k on an EA82 SPFI..............
Since someone a few pages back mentioned a Benz with 300k, check this car out:
http://www.vcoa.org/irv_o_meter.shtml
http://www.hillmanimages.com/912/081801_467.html
Engine was rebuilt at 675k..................I know, it doesn't count here...............Subaru may very well be the equivalent to the Volvo in Japan and abroad..............alot cheaper to maintain also!
(former Volvo owner.........they resell very high)
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Originally posted by asavage
Oh, you're one of "those" (g,d&r!).
But on all the SBCs and 'vairs I've had to work with, I've never adusted the valves with it running. There's simply no need. The idea is to center the hydraulic lifters' plungers in the center of their travel, and you can easily do this with the engine off, by hand rotating the engine to the base circle of the cam lobe, loosen the adjuster to get the least amount of lash discernable, then preload to spec (3/4, 1, 1.5, whatever).
Well, whatever works. Certainly, you can adjust SBC hydraulic lifters with the engine running. It's completely unnecessary, but it's the sort of procedure that's ingrained in the culture, so that's that. I've even seen one repair manual describe how to do it. Sheesh.
Unfortunately, we now live in an age where disinformation is disseminated as fast as information, and the real skill lay in determining which is which.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is "g,d&r"?
Pre-load for sbc is .400".......I know that. I have built several of them in the last 15 years and all are still running.................
If I appear to be "ignorant" or "inexperienced", then I am not coming across clearly here.
Misinformed? Maybe, but old habits die hard. I only came here to learn how to keep my car on the road. It's that simple. Actually, I hate working on cars in general (just tired of it) and avoid it at all costs. I don't think we need to be "professional" mechanics or belong to SAE to work on or maintain these cars.
I still think the oiling system on the EA82 is a strange animal and requires clean oil........or else!!..............The curse of the loud lifters will be upon us........
Glad to hear your car is running well............
Hope you enjoyed the holiday weekend.
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Originally posted by asavage
Do you think that the EA82 runs hotter than, say, a Toyota 22R?
Just because it's all-aluminum-alloy construction does not imply that it runs hotter than other conventional designs, only that it's lighter and can theoretically dissapate heat faster -- which implies it runs cooler than other designs <grin>.
No, any internal combustion engine will be designed for maximum efficiency......which would be running at 198 deg F..........
How does the heat dissapation factor in? It's the expansion that's causing the trouble............aluminum alloys expand several times faster than steel or cast iron (Toyota 22R is a Cast iron block, w/adj. rocker arms......last time I checked!) ; making it necessary to have a constantly variable "lash adjuster/ lifter" (read"hydraulic" here).........If the check valves are stuck, this would explain why they are noisy when cold.......then the noise goes away after warm-up.
If you accept that, then the you'd have to admit that the idea of running a base viscosity of 20 doesn't make sense from a maintenance standpoint . . . but, because of the combination of factors I cited, it may make good economic sense!
If this was a stationary engine, in say a generator application; this would be a moot point. Single grade oil would be employed; season specific, of course. I'm sure some people may run 30w oil............why not? I have seen VW engines go 140k miles before tear down......owner only used 30w oil, same brand. All this and an engine with NO oil filter (that "rock screen" doesn't count as a filter).
Now, I'm not saying 20w-50 is THE answer to anything; but it's well suited to high mileage engines that tend to leak and have some blow-by.
Personally, these days I'm running Wix filters on my EA82 (51361, or if you buy the NAPA-branded Wix filter, it's 1361). They have the orange silicone anti-drainback valve, which in theory has higher temperature resistance to hardening. I don't know if this is really an issue if one changes the oil on time, but I've seen the black neoprene ADVs fail -- pull off the filter after the engine's sat overnight, no oil comes out: the filter's only half full: bad ADV.
I have always had oil drain out when changing the filter...........I have always used NAPA and Wix filters...........still had lifter noise.
In my case, I had a noisy lifter for less than 15 seconds on a cold start. I disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled all four suspect lifters, but the problem persisted. To me, this implies that one lifter was leaking down at night, and it took 15 seconds for enough oil to pump it up. It might have been a leaking check ball, but more likely it was excessive bore/sleeve leakage, because I had inspected the lifter parts pretty well.
Several days after the R&R operation, I took it all apart again, replaced all four lifters, end of problem. Why all four? Because I could not accurately ascertain which lifter on that side of the engine was failed. Purely economic reason to replace them all -- I value my spare time! I'd already tried the cheap-out method -- cleaning the old lifters -- and, as usual when I try to shortcut, I got burned.
Of course, there are thousands of EA82s running around with cold start lifter noise; this doesn't prevent them from running perfectly fine. I imagine that most people wouldn't bother fixing this kind of issue.
It didn't go away for me until I replaced the lash adjusters with OEM units...........Yes, all four of them.
Again, you demonstrate your education. Though if you've ever watched a SB-anything in good condition run with a valve cover removed (not recommended!), you know that "rotating slowly" isn't what they normally do. Every one (again, in good condition) rotated pretty darned fast. Well, "fast" in this context is very much a relative thing. At idle . . . the ones I've seen can rotate the pushrod (which is rotated by the lifter) about 15-20 RPM.
For the rest of the audience: the lifter bore centerline is offset slightly from the cam lobe centerline. That's why rotation is imparted to the lifter. It's designed like this to try to equalize wear on the cam lobe and lifter scuff end.
Sorry I left out the "off-center" part in regard to "conventional" cam/lifter relationships..............On the rotational RPM's; I'll have to take your word for it, as I have never counted rotations on my lifters before (V8's here). Too busy pre-loading the lifters.............I have stock valve covers with the tops cut out.......no mess, no oil on the manifolds during adjustment.....
asavage,
Lively discussion here........I like it! I don't mean to be contentious at all...............Thanks for the compliments..........I don't consider myself to be "educated", but I do know a little about a few things.........
Experience has been a tough teacher.............."there are no free scholarships to the school of experience".......................
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Fleet oils have ash in them so you can use it in diesels...........diesels have a lot of blow-by and the oil tends to acidify quickly..............ash neutralizes acids..............
I have used Delo 400 before in a V8 and it worked quite well..........Never tried Rotella, but I hear good things about it.
Synthetic oil?...........too expensive and you will have leaks in places you never had leaks before...............
Torxxx, what kind of oil filter do you use? Just curious..........
I don't to go way off-topic here.............
oil pumps and lifters..............
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I chopped up asavages reply........I'm not good at this, so bear with me please.
Originally posted by asavageThis seems to be the concensus.
On the EA82, the sucked oil pump mounting gasket shown in the pic at the top of this thread is a very common problem. I replaced the one shown, and when I pulled the motor 4k later, the new one was already deformed and starting to become like the old one. I glued in the next replacement and I'm hoping for better long-term results.
It is high pressure differential on that gasket that causes the deformity (well, it's really caused by a poor casting design, but that's not so easy to fix, except by an EJ22 transplant), and running higher viscosity oil (as most suggest) is going to make the deformity worse, faster. There, that'll be a controverisial statement [waving red cape]. It requires a higher vacuum to move a given volume of oil of higher viscosity, than of lower viscosity. Higher vacuum = higher pressure differential on the gasket = gasket deforms faster/farther. File that under "Reasons to Stay Away from 20W50 in the EA82 engine."
That'll really get the teeth gnashing -- expect vociferous rebuttal here. Including testimonials on how 20W50 immediately fixed their problem, or how they've been running 20W50 for years etc etc . . . but read on.
I agree with this mostly; but must break ranks with you on the "viscosity" thing..................As oil is heated, it's viscosity drops and these engines run hot (heat makes power).........................the "W" after the "20" in "20W-50" only denotes that it is suitable for winter use, but only down to about +20 deg. Myself, I wouldn't use it if ambient temps are going to be below freezing (32 deg. F. here in U.S.). Since many people (I say this because I am a user on other auto/truck MB's) think the "W" stands for "weight"........try putting a bottle of your favorite 10w-40 on a scale.........then try the 20w-50...........does the higher grade oil weigh more????
The problem might be more related to service intervals and type of oil filter used...........how long do you go between oil changes? Does your oil filter have a check valve in it?
On the lifter problem:
One theory is that the oil becomes aerated from the leak in the deformed gasket on the suction side of the pump, and that the aerated oil prevents the lifters from becoming solid. I have my doubts about the being a cause of significant lifter noise for a couple of reasons. Why is it that I only hear one -- or sometimes two -- lifters banging away? If aerated oil is happening, then air should be being fed to all the lifters, and I should hear a lot more racket. Also, I'd bet that the actual effect of aerated oil would be delayed valve opening, not banging rockers. But that last is only a good guess.
I can say that repairing the gasket shown above on my own vehicle did not noticeably quiet my noisy lifter, nor did disassembly/cleaning of all lifters on that side of the engine. The way I finally banished the noise was to replace four lifters with new ones: that did the trick. [/b]
I agree here also. Why just one lifter or two? Why does it require total replacement to solve the problem?
As an aside, the EA82 lifter design is such that you don't need to keep each old lifter with its bore, should you take them out for cleaning. Unlike the SBC (and a lot of other hydraulic lifter equipped engines of that period), the EA82 lifter itself does not move up and down in its bore with every cycle, and does not contact the cam lobe at all. So -- other than the rocker arm pivot area, there is no "wear-in" area for the EA82 lifter, and you can happily swap them all around if you like, with no detrimental effect. Try that on a SBC (or SBF or actually any similar engine of that period) and you're asking for cam lobe failure and dished lifters. [/b]
Any engine with "ramps" on the camshaft and lifters that are ground convex will require that they stay in the same position for the duration of their service life. They rotate slowly to prevent wear.........since both the cam and lifters (cam followers) are cast iron.........kind of dumb; don't you think?..........seen any 300k sbc's lately???
Who can say?
Probably not, but it's not really useful to know for certain. Is it the lifter pivot/rocker arm interface, the rocker arm/cam lobe interface, or the rocker arm/valve interface that's got excessive clearance? Doesn't matter, as it's all the same cause: too much clearance caused by a hydraulic lifter which is not doing its job.
From my reading on USMB, here's a summary of EA82 noisy lifter issues:
a) dirty lifter internals -- might be repaired by the Marvel Mystery Oil (or similar engine flush-like substance) treatment
aeration of oil -- might be repaired by regasketing the oil pumpc) insufficient oil volume/pressure (worn engine) -- might be repaired by:
. i) installation of oversized oil pump.
. ii) changing to higher viscosity oil
. iii) reduce engine bearing clearances
d) stuck/seized pressure relief valve in heads -- might be repaired by removing and cleaning the relief valve(s) and/or replacing the relief valve springs
e) damaged lifter -- repaired by replacement
All of the above methods have their advocates. I have personal experience with e) on my own vehicle, and successful repair with a) on a EJ22 -- a "five minute fix", what a pleasant surprise last month. [/b]
asavage, You covered it! I just think the lifters only need a steady supply of CLEAN oil............I think the pressure thing is blow way out of proportion..................the lash adjusters (not lifters, they don't move too much) pump themselves up, but have no real way to flush themselves out..........dirt gets in, the unit malfuntions. Dirty oil is trapped inside with a quantity of engine oil................heat does the rest. The check valves stick shut and even if you change the oil; the good, clean oil won't just go right in..............remember, the check balls are stuck, so the oil just passes by and is bled off at the releif valve in the "Banjo" bolt.
Sorry folks, I think it is a design flaw...................but it doesn't stop the engine from running almost FOREVER................
I have owned and worked on many cars; but I think the Sube is one of the best.
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Originally posted by Erik R
If you get the wires mixed up and connect the coil with reverse polarity.........it will still work, but with a 60% LOSS of efficiency........
That should have returned you to normal operation......assuming that connecting the wires wrong on the coil doesn't harm any of the other related electronics.................I don't know if it would.......
I put in an Accel coil in my car and have yet to change my plug gap, but I know I should.................Stock is .044 and it should go to .047-.048...........
.050 might be a little much, but I guess the coil will "make the jump"
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xforxlifex, I did not think you had your plug wires crossed, just the coil wires.............again, it will still run, but not very well........
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That's a new one on me...........I have had clutches stick after a vehicle has sat for an extended amount of time.........I always figured that condensation played a role, along with clutch "dust".....Couldn't get into any gears without turning the engine off first.......after warm-up, it would drive normally; like nothing was wrong to begin with.
You guys weren't dropping the clutch at 6 grand were you?...........
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I have only had trouble with this when my alternator was going south; bad diode...........now my FM tuner sounds clean......it's the AM tuner that is hard to clean up.............Medium Frequencies are tough when it comes to ambient noise; especially overhead power lines................I digress.............Next time I jump in the car, I will see if my rear window heater has the same effect........very interesting.
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If you get the wires mixed up and connect the coil with reverse polarity.........it will still work, but with a 60% loss of efficiency........
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EA82 Purge and EGR solenoids............It's hard to find good used ones and I paid $125 for one from the Sube dealer :boohoo:
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PM sent......check your inbox N8NQU.........
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I agree with an earlier poster......nothing wrong with an RPD carb.; if you work it over first.................but on a Sube?......Why?
I have gone over 100 mph in a standing 1/4 mile with a Q-Jet I worked over.........drove it to work everyday too.........got 14 mpg!
The Dual-Jet is a POS.............I would avoid it. A better carb would be the 2G model.........but they are in high demand for the retro dual and tri-carb set ups used on early inline sixes and "bent eights".....................
Miles has a good idea.............2bbl Holley or Autolite/Motorcraft carburetor........very simple design and easy to work on.............a TIG welder and some aluminum stock................I would love to get involved in that project..............
Keep an open mind folks...........
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Glad to hear you have it back on the road..........These really are great cars; I know I couldn't live without mine.
I'll have to PM you about radio stuff........
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Now I know why you couldn't come out and play at P-n-P.............
Seriously, you didn't miss anything. NO Brats in the truck section and they pulled out an entire row of '85-'88 wagons and sedans............and they put Hyundai's in there place! We don't get any respect, do we...............
CIS huh?....................I have owned and driven several Audi, VW and Volvo's with that system...........it has advantages as well as some quirks................I would say those cars have more torque because they are inline engines; not so much that they have CIS.................................
Buy the car; for $300, you can't lose.........unless it's a total rust bucket or completely beat to heck.
Just my .02
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Are fairly easy. Do it like it says in the manuals for timing belt change............it's easy from there. Make sure your oil pump shaft is not scored too badly where the seal rides, or you may want to get a different seal that will ride on fresh metal. THere is a post regarding that thin seal on here already......... Better to get the seals from the dealer, good quality and EXACT fit.
My lash adjusters were really bad, sounded like a rod knock. I drove it for 14 months before I fixed it, with only a slight loss of power and fuel economy....................If you need to change your timing belts anyway; I would go for the whole job, then you don't have to have doubts about it later.....................the lash adjuster thing is always going to be an issue with these engines..........more so as they age, IMHO.
Overheating engine?
in Old Gen.: 80's GL/DL/XT/Loyales...
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I was having the same problem..................
I think I will start a new thread; it will be more specific